If we consider the Bible in its entirety, historical context, world history and science the narrative is very different. It therefore becomes clearer why both Muhammad and Jesus fulfilled prophecy and appointed by God.
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Muhammad. Mastermind or Prophet?
- Thread starter Jesus from the Ghetto
- Start date
Audie
Veteran Member
"God" lied to both of them, then. What a card, that god.
If that’s true we’re lucky to have one as enlightened as you to highlight such an error, misguided beliefs shared by nearly 60% of the world’s population. It must be great living in a high rise apartment in Hong Kong looking down at the primitive beliefs of the Muslims and Christians.
My thought is Allah doeth as He Willeth.
Thus Muhammad ( Peace be upon Him) was a Messenger from Allah, the same God of the the Bible. As such Muhammad needs no person to beleive in Him, the onus comes back to us. Are we just in our search of history, have we made a guenuine effort to find he Truth about Muhammad?
Muhummad's Message was one of Peace, Love and Justice, the Unity of all people under One God the aim. We must ask why we have rejected this?
Regards Tony
Audie
Veteran Member
If that’s true we’re lucky to have one as enlightened as you to highlight such an error, misguided beliefs shared by nearly 60% of the world’s population. It must be great living in a high rise apartment in Hong Kong looking down at the primitive beliefs of the Muslims and Christians.
You surely are not thinking that facts are a popularity contest.
Not all Christians are ignorant enough to think there really was a flood.
I dont know about you. Are you?
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Audie
Veteran Member
Maybe they just follow his example, being as the "prophet"
does not to have heard about all this sweet peace, either.
Jesus and Muhammad have these things in common.
─ in Jesus' case there is no contemporary record of him, and Muhammad's case there may or may not be two tiny ones;
─ neither of them wrote anything; everything we know is second-. third-, fourth- or fifth-hand;
─ their biographies and purported sayings were assembled, in Jesus' case decades, and in Muhammad's case centuries, after the traditional date of their respective deaths,
─ those records were likely (and in many cases were certainly) written to serve the politics of their time rather than to preserve history;
─ a reasoned case can accordingly be made that neither of them existed in history, or did not exist in anything resembling the form claimed,
─ each of their religions came to be associated with political power thus greatly increasing their fortunes, influence and followings
─ the empires run in their names have a bloody history of the forced conversion of the conquered
─ within themselves as religious organizations they have been fractious, internecine. bloody and rabble-rousing ever since;
and so on.
It's also notable that nearly all the worthwhile scholarship surrounding both religions has been done in the West, which is no longer subject to 'blasphemy' laws intended to preserve the power of priesthoods and religious establishments, and stories at the expense of facts and clearer understanding.
I'm a very ignorant person but not ignorant enough to believe there really was a worldwide flood.
There is reasonable evidence to accept the historicity of both Christ and Muhammad though.
Audie
Veteran Member
I'm a very ignorant person but not ignorant enough to believe there really was a worldwide flood.
There is reasonable evidence to accept the historicity of both Christ and Muhammad though.
So whats your prob that called for all the snark.
I think He believed what He preached and was as prepared to die for His belief as Jesus was.
I think if He was consciously just wanting power the safer bet would have been to stick to His ancestral beliefs.
Audie
Veteran Member
Yes I think Joseph Smith believed most of what he preached, although I think he knew his golden plates story was pure mythology.
That doesn’t mean his intentions were bad though, he set out to reform people and I think he even had a degree of success as judged within his historical and cultural context.
Of course that doesn't mean everything either of them said was 100 per cent true
Audie
Veteran Member
The history belongs to those that broke the verbal Covenant of Muhammad, not what Muhammad wanted for all humanity. The laws for the age were required to cement peace between bloodthirsty, idol worshiping, waring tribes. It is my opinion that those laws were abolished in 1844 or 1260.
Muhammad gave the way, but men wanting power did not submit to the Will of Allah and follow Ali after Muhammad passed and that is one of the greatest teachings of the Koran, submission.
The Bible foretells of this, that the religion of Muhammad would be clothed in sackcloth, Muhammad knew it would happen and put Negation before Affirmation. There is no God (negation) But God (Affirmation).
When we put away our predudices, amazing things are found and God becomes the light that guides our life, as all light is from God.
The sweet peace is now within our grasp. Humanity has been slowly progressing towards the unity of the entire human race, a unity that is required before we can find peace and security. Lets hope we hasten our unity and not a catastrophic decline in human life.
Regards Tony
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
No, it's not obvious when it comes to Jesus. He was "fluffed up"
by people who foresaw Him several thousand years before He
came. They spoke of Him being raised as a man, rejected by
the world, disbelieved upon by his own siblings, offering His life
as the Lamb of God, being tried and convicted, his garments
gambled away, offered vinegar and gall as his hands and feet
were pierced. But he would be believed upon by the Gentiles,
and the Jews would be carried into a long captivity a second
time - until the Gentiles "time is fulfilled." And he would see his
suffering and be glad, because generations would proclaim
"that he has done this" to Redeem them to God.
Many of the Biblical stories such as Noah’s Ark and Adam and Eve were symbolical not actual events.
Jesus promised He would return with a ‘new name’.!!!
Revelation 3:12
I will write upon him my new name.
Rev 2:17
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Isaiah 65:15
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name
Isaiah 62:2
And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.
New Revelation from God?
New Name Rev 2:17, Rev 3:12
New Song Rev 5:9, Rev 14:3
New Jerusalem Rev 3:12, Rev 21:2
All things will be made new Rev 21:5
New Heaven Rev 21:1
New Earth Rev 21:1
Baha’is believe the ‘new name’ to be Baha’u’llah (Glory of God)
Augustus
…
'Evidence' for mermaids tends not to relate to actual real world events from multiple independent sources along with all kinds of other corroborating evidence though.
As such, there isn't really much controversy as him existing as a person because there is very good evidence that he did.
Of course many of the further details do not appear in the historical record until a long time after the fact making their historicity a much more contraversial.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Muhammad was nothing more than a lunatic, just manipulating people.
Jesus himself proved many times Muhammad being a false prophet.
Let's for say, that you told all your children everything that they need to know, even to go as far as writing everything down for them.
Now here comes a person trying to convince your children that he's a prophet sent from God.
So now when you come back, finding your children going along with this person,
What would you say to your children, seeing that you fore warned them and went even as far as writing everything down for them.
Actually they dont. Christians worship Jesus as to in Islam that's the number one thing they don't do.
So the child sex and murder is ok because he taught the message to worship one true god?