Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study

[Fatihah]

It is from my humble studies that after analyzing the sunnah (legal ways of the prophet Muhammad) that I've come to realize that islam views the example of character we find in the sunnah to be the one of the best examples of character for people to follow.

But I've also come to learn that not only do many people disagree and say that he is not the best example of character but say that he is one of the worst, if not the worst example of character. So my simple question is why do people see Muhammad in such a negative way? Is Muhammad the best example of character? Let's have a dialogue.

 

[Imagist]

Muhammed married a nine year old girl:

Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234

He also started many bloody conflicts without provocation, killing thousands of people in neighboring nations and forcibly converting them to Islam. Under modern international law, killing on the basis of religion like this would be considered a war crime and/or crime against humanity.

So I think that I'll choose a role model who isn't a bloodthirsty pedophile.

 

[England my lionheart]

It is from my humble studies that after analyzing the sunnah (legal ways of the prophet Muhammad) that I've come to realize that islam views the example of character we find in the sunnah to be the one of the best examples of character for people to follow.

But I've also come to learn that not only do many people disagree and say that he is not the best example of character but say that he is one of the worst, if not the worst example of character. So my simple question is why do people see Muhammad in such a negative way? Is Muhammad the best example of character? Let's have a dialogue.

I think Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King are streets ahead of Muhammed,Muhammed has had bad press by way of Hadiths and Sunna like pulling an old Granny in half via 2 Camels etc

 

[Kodanshi]

If you want to engage conversation and debate with muslims, I have found (through my own experiences) that the mention of pædophilia instantly switches them off. They take no interest in what you have to say after that, tar you with an agenda (you only want to defame Muhammad) and take no notice of you — sometimes after refuting your point.

Nowadays I’ve discovered more and more Muslims willing to call themselves Qur’ân alone followers, simply because the ahadith (Traditions, plural of hadith) contain so much paganistic rubbish, obvious flaws, and stories that paint him as quite a ridiculous and vile man. As a brief example: the exhortation to followers to drink camel urine to cure ailments.

 

[Fatihah]

Muhammed married a nine year old girl:

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234

Response: Yes. I agree that Muhammad married a 9 year old girl. You seem to have a problem with that. So what's wrong with his marriage to a 9 year old?

Quote:Imagist
He also started many bloody conflicts without provocation, killing thousands of people in neighboring nations and forcibly converting them to Islam. Under modern international law, killing on the basis of religion like this would be considered a war crime and/or crime against humanity.

So I think that I'll choose a role model who isn't a bloodthirsty pedophile.

Response: I've never read any hadith that says that Muhammad started any religious war. So where do you get this information from?

 

[Smoke]

I don't know if it's possible to discuss the character of Muhammad with Muslims without causing a lot of bad feeling.

I thought this thread was going to be about Muhammad Ali ....

 

[Fatihah]

I think Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King are streets ahead of Muhammed,Muhammed has had bad press by way of Hadiths and Sunna like pulling an old Granny in half via 2 Camels etc

Response: No doubt Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are good examples of great character but in what way are they streets ahead of Muhammad? Also, pulling an old Granny in half? Are you saying Muhammad did this? Where did you get this from?

 

[Fatihah]

If you want to engage conversation and debate with muslims, I have found (through my own experiences) that the mention of p�dophilia instantly switches them off. They take no interest in what you have to say after that, tar you with an agenda (you only want to defame Muhammad) and take no notice of you � sometimes after refuting your point.

Nowadays I�ve discovered more and more Muslims willing to call themselves Qur��n alone followers, simply because the ahadith (Traditions, plural of hadith) contain so much paganistic rubbish, obvious flaws, and stories that paint him as quite a ridiculous and vile man. As a brief example: the exhortation to followers to drink camel urine to cure ailments.

Response: Well, I am a muslim and I for one don't really get bothered by anyone calling Muhammad things of that nature because I never see any legitimate evidence to support the claim. As for the hadith about camel's urine, I don't find it disturbing at all. Do you? If so, why?

 

[McBell]

If you want to engage conversation and debate with muslims, I have found (through my own experiences) that the mention of pædophilia instantly switches them off. They take no interest in what you have to say after that, tar you with an agenda (you only want to defame Muhammad) and take no notice of you — sometimes after refuting your point.

You ain't kidding.
In fact, many Muslims get irate and start dictating to you what you believe and what you are all about for merely asking a question about it.

Happened right here on RF.

I don't know if it's possible to discuss the character of Muhammad with Muslims without causing a lot of bad feeling.

You ain't kidding.
I know from personal experience right here on RF that even asking a question that (some) Muslims dislike will cause them to go all postal.

 

[Imagist]

If you want to engage conversation and debate with muslims, I have found (through my own experiences) that the mention of pædophilia instantly switches them off. They take no interest in what you have to say after that, tar you with an agenda (you only want to defame Muhammad) and take no notice of you — sometimes after refuting your point.

I find that religious people in general take no interest in what other religions have to say to begin with. There are notable exceptions, but overall, most of the time discussions like this are started with the intention of promoting ones own beliefs, not in the interest of discussion.

My agenda is not to defame Muhammed. Defamation indicates saying something false to hurt someone's reputation. If I speak the truth about someone and the truth happens to be negative, it's that person's fault, not mine.

Nowadays I’ve discovered more and more Muslims willing to call themselves Qur’ân alone followers, simply because the ahadith (Traditions, plural of hadith) contain so much paganistic rubbish, obvious flaws, and stories that paint him as quite a ridiculous and vile man. As a brief example: the exhortation to followers to drink camel urine to cure ailments.

It's fine if followers want to follow the Quran alone and not the example of Muhammed; however, in this particular instance we are specifically talking about whether or not Muhammed was a good role model.

 

[Imagist]

Yes. I agree that Muhammad married a 9 year old girl. You seem to have a problem with that. So what's wrong with his marriage to a 9 year old?

It is not clear whether or not Muhammed engaged in sexual relations with the girl, so we can't revile him for that with any certainty (although he does specifically mention fondling young virgins in another text). However, there is no question that she was too young to consent to a relationship with a man so much older, and this alone makes him a poor role model.

I've never read any hadith that says that Muhammad started any religious war. So where do you get this information from?

During his life, Muhammed attacked Meccan and Bedouin caravans and eventually invaded the city of Mecca, where he forcibly removed the statues which the people worshiped. In addition, his teachings set the stage for the conquest of Arabia, Persia, and Northern Africa.

For the stuff about his life this has some information. As for the conquests based on his teachings, those are common knowledge.

 

[Imagist]

As for the hadith about camel's urine, I don't find it disturbing at all. Do you? If so, why?

It doesn't bother you that the founder of your religion also thought that camel's urine had medicinal value?

If someone told me that I should drink camel's urine to cure any illness, I would find anything else they said to be suspect.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't know if it's possible to discuss the character of Muhammad with Muslims without causing a lot of bad feeling.

Precisely. Due to Muslim's unusual fixation on their demigod it is difficult to have any meaningful discussion on the matter.

For example after his famous 'night journey' Muhammad's companions really thought he had finally gone right off his rocker. One story goes that a person came up to Abu Bakr and asked him what he thought about it. His comment was something like, "If the Prophet says it happened, then it happened." Evidently because this came from Abu Bakr that settled the matter. Islamic "thought" consists of appeals to authority all the way back to god. Such is the extent of Muslim 'reasoning'.

 

[neves]

It doesn't bother you that the founder of your religion also thought that camel's urine had medicinal value?

If someone told me that I should drink camel's urine to cure any illness, I would find anything else they said to be suspect.

"Premarin is the commercial name for compound drug consisting primarily of conjugated estrogens. Isolated from mare's urine (PREgnant MARes' urINe), it is manufactured by Wyeth Pharmaceuticals and has been marketed since 1942. It is available in oral (0.3/ 0.45/ 0.625/ 0.9/ 1.25mg), IV, and topical form."
Premarin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Camel urine treatment was found to cause a significant cytotoxic effect in the bone marrow cells of mice. This cytotoxicity at higher doses was comparable with that of standard drug cyclophosphamide (CP)."

Effect of camel urine on the cytological and bioch...[J Ethnopharmacol. 1996] - PubMed Result

 

[ProudMuslim]

My agenda is not to defame Muhammed. Defamation indicates saying something false to hurt someone's reputation. If I speak the truth about someone and the truth happens to be negative, it's that person's fault, not mine.

You don't speak the truth, you speak what some Muslims believe to be the truth.

There is no proof whatsoever that Aisha was 9 when Muhammed (PBUH) married her.Even Muslims themselves don't agree on that, so there is no truth here.

As for religious wars? Please mention the wars that Muhammed (PBUH) waged for apparently no reason on defenseless people. Give me one example please.

It's fine if followers want to follow the Quran alone and not the example of Muhammed; however, in this particular instance we are specifically talking about whether or not Muhammed was a good role model

You do realise that Qur'an was delivered to Muhammed, so following the Qur'an means also following the Prophet (PBUH). Both are i [FONT=&quot]nseparable. [/FONT]

 

[ProudMuslim]

Precisely. Due to Muslim's unusual fixation on their demigod it is difficult to have any meaningful discussion on the matter.

Who is "demigod"?

For example after his famous 'night journey' Muhammad's companions really thought he had finally gone right off his rocker. One story goes that a person came up to Abu Bakr and asked him what he thought about it. His comment was something like, "If the Prophet says it happened, then it happened." Evidently because this came from Abu Bakr that settled the matter. Islamic "thought" consists of appeals to authority all the way back to god. Such is the extent of Muslim 'reasoning'.

You do realise this story is not from the Qur'an, right?

I know you are trying to make a point here but i just don't get it. Are you saying why Abu Baker believed the Prophet? Or why do we Muslims believe the Prophet?

On a related note, i think some non-Muslims confuse the word "discussion" with "aggression". If you are interested to discuss Islam, it is fine. If you want to have constructive and healthy criticism, it is fine. But when you start your comments aggressively with "pedophile" and other offensive terms and then whine about Muslims not being interested to "discuss" any further or in some cases whine about the long replies explaining Islam and refuting those despicable accusations then!!! What the hell do you expect us to do in your standards of "discussion". Just listen to some rubbish and nod?

One additional thing, again some of the non-Muslims in this forum complain how Muslims give "Islamic" answer to their questions! I really don't understand. If you ask us about our belief or our point of view of course we will respond with Islamic answer. Not because we expect you to believe in Islam, but because you are asking us for explanation and we should refer back to our belief system.

 

[jamaesi]

It doesn't bother you that the founder of your religion also thought that camel's urine had medicinal value?

If someone told me that I should drink camel's urine to cure any illness, I would find anything else they said to be suspect.

It's a good thing you're male. (I'm going by that you have the male symbol in your postbit, sorry if you are female and this will actually apply to you...)

You might have heard of a medication called Premain or Prempro, it's for women going through menopause. My mum had to take it.

The funny thing is, guess what it's made from? Horse urine.


It's sort of icky to think about, but urine has and is used in various cultures for medical uses. A part of urine, urea, is used in lots of ways and yes, in medicine. No, it really doesn't bother me that the Prophet may have suggested it back then. I'm not suggesting anyone go out and down a pint of some pee, medicine and science have progressed since back then.

 

[RemnanteK]

I personal don't find it my place to judge another character I do believe that is 'God's' place not mine.

As for Muhammad, I don't know him, but if you can take something good from him that brings you closer to God then that glory is 'Gods'.

So Fatihah, if Muhammad has given you a good example of character take them and use them if they help you know 'God' better.

I personally will not slander another belief without proof that is irrefutable, and sense that proof is hard to come by I leave in the hands of the only true Judge, 'God'.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: No doubt Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela are good examples of great character but in what way are they streets ahead of Muhammad? Also, pulling an old Granny in half? Are you saying Muhammad did this? Where did you get this from?

There are many things i could quote,like the killing of the Poet etc,if you think he was of good character thats your choice,if you can discern which Hadith is true(even some of the true ones are'nt good) or false which you will find difficult because not all Muslims agree on which are true or false and still see him as a good character we are surely not reading from the same page.

He ordered the killing of an old woman by ripping her apart.

Umm Qirfa, Fatima, was a very old women. She was known in Arabia as a woman with great honor and pride. Muhammad claimed that she was planning on killing him, so he sent his gang members to attack her village lead by Zayd Bin haritha. The lady was captured and ordered to be killed by ripping her body apart.
They tied a rope to each of her legs then tied the other end to two strong camels, they whipped the camels, driving them to pull with their greatest force. The body of the poor woman was ripped apart. Praised to be Allah and peace be upon his merciful prophet.

The executioner appointed by Zayd 'tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to camels, and they split her in two.' (Tabari)
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http://www.annaqed.com/en/content/default.aspx?cid=157

 

[ProudMuslim]

There are many things i could quote,like the killing of the Poet etc,if you think he was of good character thats your choice,if you can discern which Hadith is true(even some of the true ones are'nt good) or false which you will find difficult because not all Muslims agree on which are true or false and still see him as a good character we are surely not reading from the same page.

He ordered the killing of an old woman by ripping her apart.

Umm Qirfa, Fatima, was a very old women. She was known in Arabia as a woman with great honor and pride. Muhammad claimed that she was planning on killing him, so he sent his gang members to attack her village lead by Zayd Bin haritha. The lady was captured and ordered to be killed by ripping her body apart.
They tied a rope to each of her legs then tied the other end to two strong camels, they whipped the camels, driving them to pull with their greatest force. The body of the poor woman was ripped apart. Praised to be Allah and peace be upon his merciful prophet.

The executioner appointed by Zayd 'tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to camels, and they split her in two.' (Tabari)
===================​

Great, the next thing i am expecting to hear is that he ate a baby!

That is pure rubbish, and i can say that with such confidence.

Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) who taught us how to be careful and respect the life of an animal and a plant during war, will kill a woman like that?

It is amazing how most attacks on Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) character are based one some fabricated "Hadiths". Read and understand Qur'an, a message that was delivered to us by Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him), was protected from alteration and tell me how it contradicts most of those fabrications attributed to him.

It is very disappointed how such a great message is misunderstood and in many cases got distorted.