Response: Lol. No this is not a thread about Muhammad Ali but I can see why one would think so. As for muslims getting their feelings hurt, I appreciate your compassion for muslims first and foremost because many non-muslims don't share the same view. However, I insist that all muslims should be humble enough to put their emotions aside and be able to have these type of discussions because muslims are responsible for correcting the message of prophet Muhammad. Much can be gained from these types of discussions because you get to be able to understand both the muslim and non-muslim viewpoints of prophet Muhammad which would help bridge the gap between muslims and non-muslims.
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Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study
- Thread starter Fatihah
- Start date
Response: Lol. No this is not a thread about Muhammad Ali but I can see why one would think so. As for muslims getting their feelings hurt, I appreciate your compassion for muslims first and foremost because many non-muslims don't share the same view. However, I insist that all muslims should be humble enough to put their emotions aside and be able to have these type of discussions because muslims are responsible for correcting the message of prophet Muhammad. Much can be gained from these types of discussions because you get to be able to understand both the muslim and non-muslim viewpoints of prophet Muhammad which would help bridge the gap between muslims and non-muslims.
Response: Well we must have two very different experiences because I've never seen any muslim go postal in a debate like this. I've witnessed muslims take shot after shot and not once use any profanity or slander in response.
I believe though that these allegations take muslims off guard and by surprise because they never heard these things before about their prophet. It's because of this that muslims may go postal. When I first heard these allegations it stopped me in my tracks.
In my experience, it was always the other way around though. It's the non-muslims who go postal. When I've had these discussions on other forums, the non-muslims would become so irritated because when it came to providing evidence for their claims they couldn't do so. They tried their best to get me wild up but was irritated when they couldn't do so. On one particular forum, the thread averaged 100 post a day. Clearly the most popular thread. But by day 4 or 5 the thread was closed because the non-muslims went postal and would complain to the moderators that I was being a problem somehow. So the moderator closed the thread and said that it was because the thread was "unproductive." Unproductive? It averaged 100 posts a day! In another forum, the moderator would join the discussion and delete my posts because he/she couldn't back up their allegations. Another member on the forum practically begged the moderator not to delete the thread because it was the most popular one. And in another forum a thread was closed for basically the same reasons why the other thread was closed but this time they didn't even have the courtesy to say so. They just closed it with no warning or notice or reason why.
So we have two completely different experiences and as a newbie to RF, I wonder what this experience would bring.
Response: I've noticed a pattern. When I ask someone a question, they respond with a link. Why not answer the question yourself? Why use a link to argue your case? The most important question is whether or not the link's information is true. So how do you know that the information is true? Because the link said so?
gnostic
The Lost One
RemnanteK said:
Well, there has never been a single irrefutable proof about any religious belief (not just referring to Islam). All the miracles that prophets "claimed" or people have said to "witnessed", are examples of not proofs, but bogus belief and exaggeration and faith on such belief.
The pigs and cows can fly first before we have any irrefutable proof about religion.
Response: Well, let me ask you a couner question. Do you eat the candy skittles? How about starburst?
Response: What's wrong with a man acknowledging what his prophet has done?
Kodanshi
StygnosticA
Actually we can. He married her when she turned 6, but consummated his marriage when she hit puberty. In her case, at the age of 9. You can find the appropriate hadith in Sahih Bukhari:
Clickety–click!
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Response: It humbles my heart dearly to hear you say this. Coming from a muslim would be humbling but coming from a christian means a lot more. I've never in my life heard a christian speak such kind words concerning Muhammad. This is a complete shock to me.
But most importantly, it shows the great character and humility that you yourself have and I must commend you and say that it is quite admirable of you.
God Bless.
Response: This is from Tabari which is unauthentic. Are you saying that this hadith is true? If so, provide your evidence.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
A mare is a horse, not a camel. Furthermore, just because mare's urine contains it doesn't mean that drinking mare's urine is an effective way of administering the drug.
Cytotoxicity, or cell death, is not medicinally valuable. In fact, cytotoxicity is a negative side effect of cyclophosphamide. So saying that camel urine is as toxic as the side effect of a medicine proves even further that Muhammed should not have been giving out medical advice.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
There is the ancient text which I quoted and linked.
Whether or not Muslims agree on the subject has nothing to do with whether it is true or not.
Nobody said anything about defenseless people. I have already given an example of Muhammed waging a religious war: his attack on Mecca and removal of the statues which people worshiped.
I do realize that the Quran was written by Muhammed. Just because someone wrote a book that people believe in doesn't mean those people have to imitate everything that person does.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
According to the text I quoted, Muhammed married a nine-year-old girl. The topic of discussion is whether we should emulate the actions of Muhammed. It is morally wrong for one to marry a nine-year-old girl, so it is therefore morally wrong to emulate that particular action of Muhammed.
I don't know of a non-offensive way to refer to someone who marries nine-year-old girls. The reason for this is that the action is offensive. If you prefer that I use a different term, let me know what that term is and I will happily use it, provided that it actually refers to people who marry nine-year-old girls.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
This does not prove that untreated horse urine has medicinal value, let alone camel urine.
It's sort of icky to think about, but urine has and is used in various cultures for medical uses. A part of urine, urea, is used in lots of ways and yes, in medicine. No, it really doesn't bother me that the Prophet may have suggested it back then. I'm not suggesting anyone go out and down a pint of some pee, medicine and science have progressed since back then.
This guy is supposed to have been the mouthpiece of the one and only omniscient god. If Muhammed is giving out medicinal advice that by modern standards is ridiculous, isn't it possible that the same could be said for his religious and ethical advice?
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
Do you have any basis for this confidence?
I can't presume to know what the prophet would do. Neither can you.
Just because someone writes a code of behavior doesn't mean that person follows that code perfectly. I will write right now that it is generally wrong to lie, but I have lied during my lifetime. Likewise, Muhammed may have written about respecting life, but that doesn't mean he always respected life.
Furthermore, if we are to emulate the example set by the prophet, we must have some information about what the prophet did during his life, since without that we have no example to follow. What source of information about the prophet do we have other than the ancient texts written about him?
We need not interpret the Quran through the lens of what Muhammed did. A person can do terrible things and yet still write a good book.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
If you read my posts, I have provided my own arguments. The links merely provide background information.
If you have any basis for your claim that the links contain faulty information, please provide it. Ancient texts are the best and only source we have about what Muhammed did during his life, so there's no choice but to take them seriously. As for the Wikipedia article, if you can provide a credible source which contradicts what is on the Wikipedia article, I'll be happy to change the information there myself.
Are you,how many Hadiths are there that are believed to be true by some but not by others,i have read many and as a non Muslim it does'nt make good reading.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
Neither, because they get stuck in my teeth. But I have eaten them in the past.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
The idea that one can hold someone who had sex with a nine-year-old girl up as a model for behavior is appalling.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
Ew...