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Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study

Kodanshi

StygnosticA
crap..there are no weak ahadith in al buhkari and muslim..they are all categorized as "Sahih "
“…and Bingo was his name!”

Yes, and they both contain a lot of questionable material which gives anyone a right to question Muhammad’s status as the so–called ideal man. Sahih Muslim, for example, contains a hadith in which ‘Aishah herself states Muhammad struck her in the chest and caused her pain. He did it because she followed him at night while he tried to sneak to another wife’s house, but regardless — he hit her. Yet many muslims claim Muhammad never struck a woman.



According to Sahih Bukhari, Muhammad claims that:
  1. Satan pisses in your ears (and possibly your nose) while you sleep
  2. Satan farts every time someone gives the call to prayer
  3. That the gigantic mole on Muhammad’s back proved his status as a prophet of god (the actual ‘seal’ of prophets)
  4. That summer and winter come from Hell taking a breath twice a year because its different parts eat each other
  5. That Muhammad kissed the Black Stone in reverence leading to Abu Bakr saying to the Black Stone that he only kissed it because he saw Muhammad doing it
  6. Muhammad prayed salah after falling asleep following sex without wudu (ablution)
  7. Muhammad claimed people kept bewitching him
  8. That anyone who takes up archery and stops practising it has, in effect, apostated from Islâm
  9. Contrary to popular legend, Muhammad COULD read and write and did so on numerous occasions.
 

ProudMuslim

Active Member
  1. And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. 8:59-60
  2. Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence. 8:65
  3. It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. 8:67
  4. Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. 9:5
  5. If they ... assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief ... Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first? What! Fear ye them? Now Allah hath more right that ye should fear Him, if ye are believers Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them. 9:12-14
  6. O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. 9:73
4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

You still have not answer my question. Or do you think those verses answer my questions? If so, please explain to me your understanding of each verse you posted.
 

ProudMuslim

Active Member
crap..there are no weak ahadith in al buhkari and muslim..they are all categorized as "Sahih "

As'salamu Alykum sister :)

Have you read the content of the link?

And before you say crap, you've got to understand not all Muslims agree on the trivial info in Islamis history, does it really matter how old was Aisha (RAA)? Will her age helps me become a better Muslim? Certainly not. In fact there are some serious issues within Islam that is still under debate. I personally dont believe Aisha (RAA) was 9 when she was married and there are evidence to support it just like in the link i have provided.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
stonning and what you call torture are Punishments given only to criminals , they are part of a penal system..do you get it ?..so ,if you think youe secular penal system is better for the society..prove it with scientific statistics..can you ?

as for women ,Islam honoured women..this is what not4me ,peace ,FVM ,sajdah,me and all the other female muslim members of this forum agree upon...so why don't you keep your sympathy for yourself and let the muslim women talk for themselves..ha ?

As for slavery ,it was something deeply rooted in arabia..that's why islam worked on solving it gradually , just like it dealt with many other deeply rooted problems...drinking ,for example

Is love a crime
Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar :
The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."


stoning.jpg

Photo : this woman is burried up to her waist in preparation for her stoning to death.
Hajiyeh Esmaelvand was killed in such a manner in December 2004. She was accused of adultery. She is but one victim of this law of the Sharia.
The stoning of women is practiced in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Great, the next thing i am expecting to hear is that he ate a baby!

That is pure rubbish, and i can say that with such confidence.

Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) who taught us how to be careful and respect the life of an animal and a plant during war, will kill a woman like that?

It is amazing how most attacks on Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) character are based one some fabricated "Hadiths". Read and understand Qur'an, a message that was delivered to us by Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him), was protected from alteration and tell me how it contradicts most of those fabrications attributed to him.

It is very disappointed how such a great message is misunderstood and in many cases got distorted.

Hey its your religion,people are still being stoned to death because they have either distorted it or they are truly adhering to it.
 

ProudMuslim

Active Member
Hey its your religion,people are still being stoned to death because they have either distorted it or they are truly adhering to it.

Holy Qur'an said 100 lashes for adulterers, no mention of stoning whatsoever.

However, let's assume stoning to death is followed by some Muslims, in Islam 4 witnesses who have seen the act of sexual intercourse are required before the punishment can take place (that is for the 100 lashes, but lets apply it here as well). Unless two are committing adultery in the public it is very hard to meet this criteria.

Is love a crime

No love is not a crime, sex (outside marriage) is.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
You still have not answer my question. Or do you think those verses answer my questions? If so, please explain to me your understanding of each verse you posted.

You said Muhammad did not start or lead any unjustified wars, then you yourself tied the Quran and Muhammad together.
So, if the Quran leads Muslims to kill the unbeliever, are they led by Muhammad?
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Holy Qur'an said 100 lashes for adulterers, no mention of stoning whatsoever.

However, let's assume stoning to death is followed by some Muslims, in Islam 4 witnesses who have seen the act of sexual intercourse are required before the punishment can take place (that is for the 100 lashes, but lets apply it here as well). Unless two are committing adultery in the public it is very hard to meet this criteria.



No love is not a crime, sex (outside marriage) is.

Approximately 500 million Muslims disagree if we add up the populations of Saudi,Nigeria,Pakistan,Iran,i have read about the 100 lashes which is still over the top but Muhammed did have people stoned if we are to believe the Hadiths.
In my country if someone is caught for adultery the Woman gets at least half the house,the children and a portion of the Mans salary which seems much fairer.
 

ProudMuslim

Active Member
At the same time in the west we pride ourselves on a hard core analysis of all ideas. This line is very hard to walk. It can create very hard feelings on both sides. This tension can help us to better understand our own faith and help us not to rewrite history to make it more comfortable to live with.

I am all for constructive criticism and objective debate and analysis. Islam encourages us to debate. But there should be some valid point to discuss. For example you cannot criticise my belief for something that its still not valid, not agreed upon or worse criticise my belief over something i dont believe in to begin with. This way it doesnt become objective debate but rather arguing for the sake of argument.

Anyway i thought since this thread is dedicated to the great Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), why nto share some of his great messages that influenced millions of people and continue to influence many more :)

1. "Acquire knowledge, it enables its professor to distinguish right from wrong; it lights the way to heaven. It is our friend in the
desert, our company in solitude and companion when friendless. It guides us to happiness, it sustains us in misery, it is an ornament amongst friends and an armor against enemies." (widely attributed to the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh))


2. "A Muslim who plants a tree or sows a field, from which man, birds and animals can eat, is committing an act of charity." (Muslim)

3. "There is a polish for everything that takes away rust; and the polish for the heart is the remembrance of Allah." (Bukhari)

4. "What actions are most excellent? To gladden the heart of human beings, to feed the hungry, to help the afflicted, to lighten the sorrow of the sorrowful, and to remove the sufferings of the injured." (Bukhari)

5. "The most excellent Jihad is that for the conquest of self." (Bukhari)

6. "If you put your whole trust in Allah, as you ought, He most certainly will satisfy your needs, as He satisfies those of the birds. They come out hungry in the morning, but return full to their nests." (Tirmidhi)

7. "When Allah created his creatures He wrote above His throne: 'Verily, my Compassion overcomes my wrath." (Bukhari & Muslim)

8. "Allah will not give mercy to anyone, except those who give mercy to other creatures." (Abdullah b. Amr: Abu Daud & Tirmidhi)

9. " 'Son, if you are able, keep your heart from morning till night and from night till morning free from malice towards anyone.' Then the Prophet said: 'O my son! This is one of my laws, and he, who loves my laws verily loves me.' " (Bukhari)

10. "Say what is true, although it may be bitter and displeasing to people." (Baihaqi)

11. "Kindness is a mark of faith, and whoever is not kind has no faith." (Muslim)

12. "When you see a person who has been given more than you in money and beauty, look to those, who have been given less." (Muslim)

13. "If you do not feel ashamed of anything, then you can do whatever you like." (Abu-Masud: Bukhari)

14. "O Lord, grant me your love, grant me that I love those who love you; grant me, that I might do the deeds that win your love. Make your love dearer to me than the love of myself, my family and wealth." (Tirmidhi)

15. "It is better to sit alone than in company with the bad; and it is, better still to sit with the good than alone. It is better to speak to a seeker of knowledge than to remain silent; but silence is better than idle words." (Bukhari)

16. "Verily, a man teaching his child manners is better than giving one bushel of grain in alms." (Muslim)

17. "Whoever is kind, Allah will be kind to him; therefore be kind to man on the earth. He Who is in heaven will show mercy on you."(Abu Daud: Tirmidhi)

18. "It is difficult for a man laden with riches to climb the steep path, that leads to bliss." (Muslim)

19. "Once a man, who was passing through a road, found a branch of a tree with thorns obstructing it. The man removed the thorns from the way. Allah thanked him and forgave his sins." (Bukhari)

20. "Who are the learned? Those who practice what they know." (Bukhari)

21. "Allah has revealed to me, that you must be humble. No one should boast over one another, and no one should oppress another." (Iyad b. Hinar al-Mujashi: Muslim)

22. "Who is the most favored of Allah? He, from whom the greatest good comes to His creatures." (Bukhari)

23. "A true Muslim is thankful to Allah in prosperity, and resigned to His will in adversity." (Muslim)

24. "A Muslim who meets with others and shares their burdens is better than one who lives a life of seclusion and contemplation." (Muslim)

25. "Serve Allah, as you would if you could see Him; although you cannot see Him, He can see you. (Umar: Muslim)

26. "Allah does not look at your appearance or your possessions; but He looks at your heart and your deeds." (Abu Huraira: Muslim)

27. "The best richness is the richness of the soul." (at the field of Tabuk, Syria, Rajab 9 A.H.: Bukhari)

28. "Keep yourselves far from envy; because it eats up and takes away good actions, like a fire eats up and burns wood." (Abu Daud)

29. "Much silence and a good disposition, there are no two things better than these." (Bukhari)

30. "Verily, Allah is mild and is fond of mildness, and He gives to the mild what He does not give to the harsh." (Muslim)

31. "Whoever loves to meet Allah, Allah loves to meet him." (Bukhari)

32. "Once the Prophet was asked:'Tell us, which action is dearest to Allah?' He answered:'To say your prayer at its proper time.' Again he was asked: 'What comes next?' Mohammed said: 'To show kindness to parents.' 'Then what?' he was asked, 'To strive for the cause of Allah!' " (Ibn Masad: Bukhari)

33. "When two persons are together, two of them must not whisper to each other, without letting the third hear; because it would hurt him." (Bukhari & Muslim)

34. "Verily, it is one of the respects to Allah to honor an old man." (Bukhari)

35. "All Muslims are like a foundation, each strengthening the other; in such a way they do support each other." (Abu Musa: Bukhari & Muslim)

36. "Strive always to excel in virtue and truth." (Bukhari)

37. "You will not enter paradise until you have faith; and you will not complete your faith till you love one another." (Muslim)

38. "He, who wishes to enter paradise at the best gate, must please his father and mother." (Bukhari & Muslim)

39. "I am leaving two things among you, and if you cling to them firmly you will never go astray; one is the Book of Allah and the other is my way of life." (Farewell Pilgrimage: Muatta)

40. "Allah is One and likes Unity." (Muslim)

41. "The best of alms is that, which the right hand gives and the left hand knows not of." (Bukhari)

42. "The perfect Muslim is not a perfect Muslim, who eats till he is full and leaves his neighbors hungry." (Ibn Abbas: Baihaqi)

43. "He is not of us who is not affectionate to the little ones, and does not respect the old; and he is not of us, who does not order which is lawful, and prohibits that which is unlawful." (Ibn Abbas: Tirmidhi)

44. "No man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that, what he desires for himself." (Abu Hamza Anas: Bukhari & Muslim)

45. "To strive for the cause of Allah from daybreak to noon and sunset is better than the goods and enjoyment of the whole worldly life." (Bukhari)

46. "Be not like the hypocrite who, when he talks, tells lies; when he gives a promise, he breaks it; and when he is trusted, he proves dishonest." (Bukhari & Muslim)

47. "The proof of a Muslim's sincerity is, that he pays no heed to that, which is not his business." (Abu Hureira: Tirmidhi)

48. "Do you know what is better than charity and fasting and prayer? It is keeping peace and good relations between people, as quarrels and bad feelings destroy mankind." (Muslims & Bukhari)

49. "Conduct yourself in this world, as if you are here to stay forever; prepare for eternity as if you have to die tomorrow.",(Bukhari)
50. "The worldly comforts are not for me. I am like a traveler, who takes a rest under a tree in the shade and then goes on his way." (Tirmidhi)

Credit
 

ProudMuslim

Active Member
In my country if someone is caught for adultery the Woman gets at least half the house,the children and a portion of the Mans salary which seems much fairer.

What if the man is rich and doesn't care of sharing his money? I'll still go with the lashes ;)

You said Muhammad did not start or lead any unjustified wars,

Yes i did

then you yourself tied the Quran and Muhammad together. So, if the Quran leads Muslims to kill the unbeliever, are they led by Muhammad?

Again do you understand the verses you post?
 

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
��and Bingo was his name!�

Yes, and they both contain a lot of questionable material which gives anyone a right to question Muhammad�s status as the so�called ideal man. Sahih Muslim, for example, contains a hadith in which �Aishah herself states Muhammad struck her in the chest and caused her pain. He did it because she followed him at night while he tried to sneak to another wife�s house, but regardless � he hit her. Yet many muslims claim Muhammad never struck a woman.

Response: This is in the collection of Sahih Muslim? I have the whole collection sitting in front of me as we speak. So kindly verify exactly where in Sahih Muslim does this take place, if you are truthful?

Quote: Kodanshi
According to Sahih Bukhari, Muhammad claims that:
  1. Satan pisses in your ears (and possibly your nose) while you sleep
  2. Satan farts every time someone gives the call to prayer
  3. That the gigantic mole on Muhammad�s back proved his status as a prophet of god (the actual �seal� of prophets)
  4. That summer and winter come from Hell taking a breath twice a year because its different parts eat each other
  5. That Muhammad kissed the Black Stone in reverence leading to Abu Bakr saying to the Black Stone that he only kissed it because he saw Muhammad doing it
  6. Muhammad prayed salah after falling asleep following sex without wudu (ablution)
  7. Muhammad claimed people kept bewitching him
  8. That anyone who takes up archery and stops practising it has, in effect, apostated from Isl�m
  9. Contrary to popular legend, Muhammad COULD read and write and did so on numerous occasions.

Response: Another list of claims. I also have Sahih Al Bukhari in front of me as well? So kindly verify exactly where in Sahih Bukhari are these things mentioned, if you are truthful?
 

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
You said Muhammad did not start or lead any unjustified wars, then you yourself tied the Quran and Muhammad together.
So, if the Quran leads Muslims to kill the unbeliever, are they led by Muhammad?

Response: None of the verses you quoted from the qur'an say that Muhammad started any war. In each verse that you quoted, the context attached to it shows that Muhammad as well as all muslims are to defend themselves and the verses are talking about self defense. So why is it wrong for someone to defend themself?
 
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Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
I am all for constructive criticism and objective debate and analysis. Islam encourages us to debate. But there should be some valid point to discuss. For example you cannot criticise my belief for something that its still not valid, not agreed upon or worse criticise my belief over something i dont believe in to begin with. This way it doesnt become objective debate but rather arguing for the sake of argument.

I agree .

There are many good things to say about Islamic history. The Moors in Spain seem much more evolved then the rest of the european cultures of the day.
 

Kodanshi

StygnosticA
Response: Another list of claims. I also have Sahih Al Bukhari in front of me as well? So kindly verify exactly where in Sahih Bukhari are these things mentioned, if you are truthful?
Plus you mentioned Sahih Muslim as well. I will certainly give you the book, volume and hadith number, and also provide hyperlinks to it so others can see.

Will you try and justify them once I do? Or will you admit they represent the actions of a bizarre and deluded man?
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
This does not prove that untreated horse urine has medicinal value, let alone camel urine.

It just proves that, yes, urine has have medicinal uses.



This guy is supposed to have been the mouthpiece of the one and only omniscient god. If Muhammed is giving out medicinal advice that by modern standards is ridiculous, isn't it possible that the same could be said for his religious and ethical advice?

Muhammad, peace be upon him, was a prophet. He wasn't a doctor or a scientist. If you're trying to make the point that Muhammad was not a doctor or scientist, then congratulations, you have- but that has nothing to do with his status of Prophet. You aren't going to ask a linguist to do organic chemistry so I don't know why you want Muhammad to be a savant on every single topic.

There's many examples in Islamic literature where Muhammad says that what he says about Islam is from G-d and what he says on other nonreligious topics are just his opinion and therefore not part of Islam. He gave medical advice as known in his time, but that doesn't make it part of Islam.

Are you going to rant next about doctors and medicine throughout history? Rail against well-known historical doctors who did outdated and baseless procedures? My goodness, how should we trust medicine at all knowing bloodletting used to be practiced by doctors and they used to think the heart was the brain. :cover:
 

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
Plus you mentioned Sahih Muslim as well. I will certainly give you the book, volume and hadith number, and also provide hyperlinks to it so others can see.

Will you try and justify them once I do? Or will you admit they represent the actions of a bizarre and deluded man?

Response: So instead of responding with the answer you've just responded saying that you're going to respond with the answer? I don't get it. Why couldn't your response above already have this information?
 

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
It just proves that, yes, urine has have medicinal uses.





Muhammad, peace be upon him, was a prophet. He wasn't a doctor or a scientist. If you're trying to make the point that Muhammad was not a doctor or scientist, then congratulations, you have- but that has nothing to do with his status of Prophet. You aren't going to ask a linguist to do organic chemistry so I don't know why you want Muhammad to be a savant on every single topic.

There's many examples in Islamic literature where Muhammad says that what he says about Islam is from G-d and what he says on other nonreligious topics are just his opinion and therefore not part of Islam. He gave medical advice as known in his time, but that doesn't make it part of Islam.

Are you going to rant next about doctors and medicine throughout history? Rail against well-known historical doctors who did outdated and baseless procedures? My goodness, how should we trust medicine at all knowing bloodletting used to be practiced by doctors and they used to think the heart was the brain. :cover:

Response: Good point. Even doctors themselves don't know the cure for everything and make medical mistakes themselves. Yet we still trust them.
But the thing that's not being said here is that while doctors are known to make medical mistakes, the hadith that's being criticized says that the treatment worked.
 

Kodanshi

StygnosticA
Muhammad strikes ‘Aishah.

Satan lives in your nose while you sleep.

Satan ‘relieves’ himself in your ears while you sleep.

Satan farts every time someone calls adhaan

Muhammad’s mole on his back consists of the actual ‘seal’ of prophets

A tale about Hell which shows a woeful grasp of the earth’s rotation around the sun affecting weather

— It turns out ‘Umar actually kissed the black stone in emulation of Muhammad, not Abu Bakr. I’ll quote the hadith: “I know that you are a mere stone that can neither harm nor do any good. If I had not seen the Prophet kissing you, I would have never kissed you.” I’ve quoted the hadith from Bukhari but it turns out I didn’t note down the reference number for it, so I will withdraw it.

Muhammad praying salah without wudu after falling asleep following sex.
—Again, I can't find the reference, so I'll withdraw it.

Muhammad bewitched 1

and

Muhammad Bewitched 2

That anyone who takes up archery and stops practising it has, in effect, apostated from Islâm.

As for reading and writing, I wrote a long tract about this once, and it certainly covers a lot of ahadith, so I’ll withdraw it from here. If you like I can make a separate topic about his so–called ‘illiteracy’.
 

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
Muhammad strikes �Aishah.

Satan lives in your nose while you sleep.

Satan �relieves� himself in your ears while you sleep.

Satan farts every time someone calls adhaan

Muhammad�s mole on his back consists of the actual �seal� of prophets

A tale about Hell which shows a woeful grasp of the earth�s rotation around the sun affecting weather

� It turns out �Umar actually kissed the black stone in emulation of Muhammad, not Abu Bakr. I�ll quote the hadith: �I know that you are a mere stone that can neither harm nor do any good. If I had not seen the Prophet kissing you, I would have never kissed you.� I�ve quoted the hadith from Bukhari but it turns out I didn�t note down the reference number for it, so I will withdraw it.

Muhammad praying salah without wudu after falling asleep following sex.
�Again, I can't find the reference, so I'll withdraw it.

Muhammad bewitched 1

and

Muhammad Bewitched 2

That anyone who takes up archery and stops practising it has, in effect, apostated from Isl�m.

As for reading and writing, I wrote a long tract about this once, and it certainly covers a lot of ahadith, so I�ll withdraw it from here. If you like I can make a separate topic about his so�called �illiteracy�.

Response: My friend, why are you making me do your homework for you? It is you who posted claims of certain things mentioned in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim and instead of posting where in the collection these things are stated you've provided links suggesting that I do it myself. Why can't you post them yourself? If you were able to post the claims you made by simply typing it in a post without links why can't you do the same for where exactly these claims are mentioned without links?
 
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