Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study

[Autodidact]

Thanks imagist, correction made.

 

[England my lionheart]

Here is a little gem "let there be no compulsion in Religion" or "your religion unto you,mine unto mine" but if you become a Muslim you cannot become a Kafr
Of course, the death penalty for apostasy comes from the words of Muhammad himself: "Muhammad said, "Baddala deenahu, faqtuluhu" -- if anyone changes his religion, kill him ( Bukhari vol. 9, bk. 84, no. 57)."
Now i am a curious person by nature and will try most things once but on seeing this i think i will pass.

 

[Kodanshi]

Fatihah — Re: seal of prophethood, you wrote: Response: I followed your link accordingly and it does not say that. So you should be humble enough to say that the quoted hadith is a fabrication and it is not there.

I’ll quote it for you: “I stood behind him and saw the seal of Prophethood between his shoulders, and it was like the "Zir-al-Hijla" (means the button of a small tent, but some said 'egg of a partridge.' etc.)”

It is from Sahih Bukhari, and in no way Daeef.

Archery, you said: Response: The hadith does not say that they are apostates. This is a fabrication and I used your own link to verify so you can't deny it.

Again I quote: “He said that he (the Holy Prophet) said: Who learnt archery and then gave it up is not from us. or he has been guilty of disobedience (to Allah's Apostle).”

Note, not from us, and disobedient to allah’s Apostle. Not from us, as in an infidel.

Muhammad strikes ‘Aishah, you wrote: Response: I have followed your own link and there is nothing there that says that. So you should be humble enough to either correct the link or acknowledge that it is a fabrication.

Again let me quote: “He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain”

Please read the full ahadith I quote in future, thank you.

 

[Sajdah]

Just a thought,many many Women in Pakistan are stoned to death because if a rape victim cannot produce 4 witnesses to the fact they are adulterers and Stoned.
Adultery can happen because of lust but mostly for love and even if it were for lust is it really cool to stone a defensless often innocent Woman to death.

I don't understand how can whoever he is to punish anyone without an evidence? It is completely unacceptable.

Adultery is well known everywhere as a crime, and unacceptable act, so I don't know why are youarguing about that point?!
And also love is unacceptable thing for married, I want to say, If someone is already married and his wife loves another man, sure it is called unloyalty, and unacceptable act. So that sort of love is unacceptable in Islam.
besides this label "Love" doesn't justify committing crimes. For example, if you found a thief says that he is doing theft because he loves his family, does it justify his crime? does it makes you sympathize with him? I think at least for me the answer is No.
About lust, Islamic society is aware enough of that thing, that's why there is a Hijab for women, and lower their (Men&Women) gazes, no much useless talks among them, no shaking hands, not staying in a remote place alone....etc.
So there is no excuse in committing such sins, as the whole society goes with Islamic manners and ethics.

As for Palestine,this has been debated over and over on this Forum but if this kind of thing is to stop Hamas must drop the Gun and the Charter and stop buying Rockets instead of Bread for its people, and i don't call it double standards,i call it Human rights

 

[Sajdah]

Here is a little gem "let there be no compulsion in Religion" or "your religion unto you,mine unto mine" but if you become a Muslim you cannot become a Kafr
Of course, the death penalty for apostasy comes from the words of Muhammad himself: "Muhammad said, "Baddala deenahu, faqtuluhu" -- if anyone changes his religion, kill him ( Bukhari vol. 9, bk. 84, no. 57)."
Now i am a curious person by nature and will try most things once but on seeing this i think i will pass.

Have you ever tried to read the biography of the prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, instead of choosing some sentences out of the general context just to prove your wrong Ideas about him?!

Forgiveness​

Another great quality of Muhammad was that he never took revenge on anyone for personal reasons and always forgave even his staunch enemies A'isha said that God's Messenger never took revenge on his own behalf on anyone She also said that God's Messenger was not unseemly or obscene in his speech, nor was he loud-voiced in the streets, nor did he return evil for evil, but he would forgive and pardon The people of the Quraish rebuked him, taunted and mocked at him, beat him and abused him They tried to kill him and when he escaped to Medinah, they waged many wars against him yet when he entered Makkah victorious with an army of 10,000, he did not take revenge on anyone He forgave all Even his deadliest enemy Abu Sufyan, who fought so many battles, was forgiven, and anyone who stayed in his house was also forgiven.

The leaders of T'aif, who engaged scoundrels to throw stones at him when he visited that town in order to invite them to Islam, were also forgiven Abdullah bin Ubayy, leader of the hypocrites of Medinah, was forgiven Muhammad offered his funeral prayer and prayed to God for his forgiveness The Qur'an mentions this incident in these words: "And never (O Muhammad) pray for one of them who dies, nor stand by his grave Lo! They disbelieve in God and His Messenger, and they died while they were evil doers" Abdullah bin Ubayy worked all his life against Muhammad and Islam and left no stone unturned in bringing him into disrepute and in trying to defeat his mission He withdrew his 300 supporters in the battle of Uhud and almost broke the backbone of the Muslim He had engaged in intrigues and acts of hostility against the Prophet of Islam and the Muslims It was he who raised the incident of "ifk" through his allies to discredit God's Messenger by spreading scandal about his wife, the mother of believers A'isha.
"Lo! They who spread the slander are a gang among you Deem it not a bad thing for you; nay, it is good for you Unto every man of them will be paid that which he has earned of the sin; and as for him among them who had the greater share therein, his will be an awful doom"[Qur'aan 24:11]

Peace and blessings be upon our forgiving Prophet!​

"An Abyssinian slave, who killed Hamza, Muhammad's uncle, in the battle of Uhud, and after the victory of Makkah embraced Islam and came to him, was forgiven The wife of Abu Sufyan had cut the chest of Hamza and torn his liver and heart into pieces in the battle of Uhud She quietly came to the Prophet and accepted Islam He recognised her but did not say anything She was so impressed by his magnanimity and stature that she said, "O God's Messenger, no tent was more deserted in my eyes than yours; but today no tent is more lovely in my eyes than yours"

Ikrama, son of Abu Jahl, was a great enemy of God's Messenger and Islam He ran away after the victory of Makkah and went to Yemen His wife embraced Islam and brought him to the Messenger of God Muhammad was pleased to see him and greeted him with the words: "O emigrant rider, welcome" Sufwan bin Urnaya, one of the chiefs of Makkah, was also a great enemy of Muhammad and Islam He sent Umair ibn Wahab, with a promise of reward, to kill Muhammad When Makkah was conquered, he ran away to Jeddah and hoped to go to Yemen by sea Umair ibn Wahab came to Muhammad and said, "O God's Messenger! Sufwan ibn Umayya is a chief of his tribe He has run away from fear and will throw himself into the sea" He was given protection When he came back, he requested Muhammad to give him two months to think He was given four months and then he became a Muslim by his own will.

Habir ibn al-Aswad was another vicious enemy of Muhammad and of Islam He had inflicted a grievous injury to Zainab, daughter of the Holy Prophet She was pregnant and was emigrating to Medinah The polytheists of Makkah obstructed her and Habbar bin al-Aswad intentionally threw her down from the camel She was badly hurt and had a miscarriage He had committed many other crimes as well He wanted to run away to Persia but then he came to Muhammad, who forgave him.

He was all for forgiveness and no amount of crime or aggression against him was too great to be forgiven by him He was the complete example of forgiveness and kindness, as mentioned in the following verse of the Qur'an:

"Keep to forgiveness (O Muhammad), and enjoin kindness, and turn away from the ignorant" [Qur'aan 7:199]

He always repelled evil with the good of forgiveness and kind behaviour, for, in his view, an antidote was better than poison He believed and practiced the precept that love could foil hatred and aggression could be won over by forgiveness He overcame the ignorance of the people with the knowledge of Islam, and the folly and evil of the people with his kind and forgiving treatment With his forgiveness, he freed people from the bondage of sin and crime, and also made them great friends of Islam He was aexact image of the following verse of the Qur'an:

"Good and evil are not alike Repel evil with what is better Then he, between whom and you there was hatred, will become as though he was a bosom friend" [Qur'aan 41:34]

Peace and blessings of Allah be upon you O the love of our hearts!​

 

[Kodanshi]

Oh puh–lease! The sira and ahadith of Muhammad abound with stories of him sanctioning assassinations of people who mocked him in poetry and suchlike!

 

[England my lionheart]

I don't understand how can whoever he is to punish anyone without an evidence? It is completely unacceptable.

Adultery is well known everywhere as a crime, and unacceptable act, so I don't know why are youarguing about that point?!
And also love is unacceptable thing for married, I want to say, If someone is already married and his wife loves another man, sure it is called unloyalty, and unacceptable act. So that sort of love is unacceptable in Islam.
besides this label "Love" doesn't justify committing crimes. For example, if you found a thief says that he is doing theft because he loves his family, does it justify his crime? does it makes you sympathize with him? I think at least for me the answer is No.
About lust, Islamic society is aware enough of that thing, that's why there is a Hijab for women, and lower their (Men&Women) gazes, no much useless talks among them, no shaking hands, not staying in a remote place alone....etc.
So there is no excuse in committing such sins, as the whole society goes with Islamic manners and ethics.

Adultery,if it is a crime it is one of passion,if a married Man has an affair with another Woman his wife sues for divorce and she will get the house,the Children and a portion of the Husbands wealth,surely this is enough and fair and does'nt end with someone being stoned to death.

 

[England my lionheart]

Have you ever tried to read the biography of the prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, instead of choosing some sentences out of the general context just to prove your wrong Ideas about him?!

I thought Bukhari was ok unless thats changed

 

[Kodanshi]

The problem with Islâmic law as practised today, if a woman complains of rape she has admitted to some form of sexual intercourse. If she cannot provide 4 witnesses to that then it automatically follows(!) that she has done so willingly and will therefore earn punishment.

Ridiculous and barbaric. I’ve even read some Biblical criticism about the story of the woman Jesus saves from stoning as fabricated because even by then the Jews had given up stoning for adultery.

 

[England my lionheart]

The problem with Islâmic law as practised today, if a woman complains of rape she has admitted to some form of sexual intercourse. If she cannot provide 4 witnesses to that then it automatically follows(!) that she has done so willingly and will therefore earn punishment.

Ridiculous and barbaric. I’ve even read some Biblical criticism about the story of the woman Jesus saves from stoning as fabricated because even by then the Jews had given up stoning for adultery.

4 witnesses who must witness penetration,i wonder how many Women actually come forward and report rape in an Islamic state such as Pakistan

 

[England my lionheart]

Originally Posted by Sajdah
Have you ever tried to read the biography of the prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, instead of choosing some sentences out of the general context just to prove your wrong Ideas about him?!

In Muhammeds time 1400 years ago stoning,lashing,cutting off hands etc of the Hudd punishments were practised,Christianity had the Spanish inquisition which was far more gruesome and later than Muhammeds time are no more,no lashes,no stoning,no burning at the stake but alas the Hudd punishments are still here.

 

[Sajdah]

Adultery,if it is a crime it is one of passion,if a married Man has an affair with another Woman his wife sues for divorce and she will get the house,the Children and a portion of the Husbands wealth,surely this is enough and fair and does'nt end with someone being stoned to death.

She also will get the house, the children, and his fortune(if he has any) after stoning.
The wisdom of any punishment is to illegalize crimes in society, just imagine when people realize that the punishment is stoning, there would be very rare cases of that crime, you will live in a healthful society.

I thought Bukhari was ok unless thats changed

Bukhari is ok, but your intention is not to read and understand, but to criticize, to find errors in Hadiths, England.

 

[Sajdah]

In Muhammeds time 1400 years ago stoning,lashing,cutting off hands etc of the Hudd punishments were practised,Christianity had the Spanish inquisition which was far more gruesome and later than Muhammeds time are no more,no lashes,no stoning,no burning at the stake but alas the Hudd punishments are still here.

The Hudood Punishments are for criminals, criminals offended themselves with committing crimes, so they deserve PUNISHMENT. And that's the punishment which our creator established for anyone commits such crimes.
England, criminals before committing any crime know the punishment of that crime, if someone is going to steal, s/he will think many times before doing that, beacuse s/he realize that their right hands will be cut off. And that's is the aim of punishment, to make people think thousands of times before putting themselves in this embarrassing situation with disobeying Almighty Allah.

 

[Kodanshi]

Religions’ obsession with setting rules around every aspect of a person’s sex life is nothing short of totalitarian control.

 

[Gharib]

I never said they were justified. However, just because someone does you a wrong doesn't mean that you can go back and do something even worse to them.

so what exactly did Muhammed (saws) do that was so bad and he had to be kicked out? he loved his land just as you do, would you not avenge the person that takes it all away from you. and Muhammed (saws) never did anything to them, i've mentioned it before, here i go again. he let the meccans free, they willingly converted to islam.

This is simply not true. Read the links I posted

well why should i trust the links, you don't seem to be trusting me nor the true character of the prophet. and who exactly is going to do the talking, the links, or you. you know i really hate reading, mentioned it to every RF member so if you wish to bring up a point then please don't copy, paste any links.

 

[Gharib]

I have no reason to believe that the accusations are false. The only sources we have on the subject say that he had sexual relations with a nine-year-old, he invaded Mecca for religious reasons, and he recommended camel urine as a medicine.

can i ask a question, is there a special website just for non muslims or something, every non muslim comes up with these same arguments always.

were you or were you not present when Muhammed (saws) "had" sex with a nine year old girl.

yes he did move back to his own home, his mother land, i would too. and it was religious related yes, so if he went there for a religious reason then what place does killing have in it. you say this happened then you say that happened.

did he really recomend camel urine as a medicine? well i guess he had never heard of aspirin. have you evver heard of "space aspirin"

 

[Gharib]

That's a very nice verse, but that doesn't mean that Muhammed followed it.

you know thats a good point you've brought up.
lets do some analysis now;
Q who was Muhammed (saws)
A he was the messenger of Allah
Q what bussines did he have with the quran
A Allah revealed it to him and he was the reciter of it, taught it to people
Q did Muhammed (saws) follow the quran
A NO (this is what you are saying, it is not true though) , what, he didn't? then why did he say to follow the quran, for it is the law of Allah.

can you please tell me why he would do such a thing

There is no evidence to support your claim that these people have to be armed, but even if they were, is aggression justified just because people are armed? I think not.

didn't the english kill every native american that they saw. are you sying that they never harmed anyone with weapons in his hand?

and i quote my own statement "if my country and yours are at war, would you or would you not be feeding me bullets in the head if you saw me and i was carrying a weapon?"

if there is no evidence to support my claim that they have to be armed then here is a question for you
Q how many US troops are not armed in Afghanistan?

 

[Autodidact]

Killing apostates? Anyone? Everyone but me thinks it's fine to kill someone because of what they believe?

 

[Gharib]

Killing apostates? Anyone? Everyone but me thinks it's fine to kill someone because of what they believe?

hi Autodidact
and what exactly do you beleive in?

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Killing apostates? Anyone? Everyone but me thinks it's fine to kill someone because of what they believe?

Nope. I got your back.