Muhammad The Greatest: A comparative study

[Gharib]

I don't deny it being one god, but it is still a different religion to Judaism and Christianity.

well yes that is true, you see when a law is updated it doesn't stay the same, it changes slightly. the old and new law still resemble each other but not by much. and in what ways are the three religions different?

Some have deny that he is even a prophet, because he is an Arab.

yes the jews did that, with both Muhammed (saws) and Jesus (as)

Me, on the other hand, see prophet as having one of the following requirement: leader of the religious group, founder of a religious group, and the ones that actually deal with prophecies.

Muhammed (saws) had all three

I will not argue with you on his prophethood. Since you all (Muslims) say that he is prophet, then he is one, regardless if I like him or not.

not because muslims say so, but god says so.

But this also applied to others before Muhammad and after him. LDS says that Joseph Smith then he is a prophet, and that there other prophets in succession after JS. The Baha'i say that Bahá'u'lláh was their prophet, so whom am I to argue with that.

do you wish to speak about why the Baha'u'llah isn't a prophet, or even why the baha'i faith isn't considered as the succesor of islam, christianity, or judaism.

What I will argue is what each may have taught in their lifetime or what they have done. I may argue that I agree with it or not. And I may or may not believe on those merits alone, not the simple label of being prophet, or the use of artificial or superlative adjectives (that are actually superfluous) being use to describe him: like "best", "greatest", "most humble", the "smartest", etc. They are absolutely meaningless and useless measure, and more common in use for propaganda.

well there is no need to use such words, his actions speak for them self, the words simply define his actions.

I have the tendency to tune out when people brag about "Oh, Melbourne is the greatest place to live", or "Australian cricket team is the best in the world", or "Christianity" or "Islam is the only true religion", yada, yada, yada. It is completely meaningless, and I've attach no importance to such thing. It's hollow; it shallow, and its petty.

i know what you mean, in my case my brain just shuts down and i need to find a way to entrtain my self otherwise i will get really bored. if that is the case here then why are you posting your thoughts or comments in this thread if you cannot stand it. when i cant stand something i don't participate in it.

If you want to say your prophet is the greatest ever, then good for you. But in my mind, I'm thinking "big deal" or "BORING!!!".

then why are you disccusing Muhammed (saws) if you can't stand it, why join us, you can have you oppinion, but you must also accept oppinions from others.

Such statement certainly doesn't contribute anything meaningful to my life. It's just an insecure (and childish) ego trip that I want no part in.

then why wright here friend?

I remember when I was kid, boys would say "My car is bigger and better than yours". This topic amounts to the same thing.

well in this thread we are simply discussing views, no one is showing off their cars here.

That adults still compare something that are bigger and better than another's person's car, penis, boobs, religion, just showed that some people really never grow up. Do you really think I care about such thing

i don't know you tell me. do you care about such a thing. to me it seems you do otherwise you would have just ignored this thread, right. thats what i would have done.

 

[Fatihah]

I believe these things because i have read many Hadiths and had conversations with Muslims in the course of my work,i ask questions and listen to what they have to say.

Response: That doesn't answer the question as to what evidence has convinced you to believe what you believe. You have also read hadiths and talk to muslims that go against what you believe as well. The question is why have you chosen not to believe them and uphold your beliefs instead?

Quote: England my lionheart
As for all Muslims not being scholars ok i understand that but how about the scolars that run Iran,Saudi etc so even scholars get it wrong so if scholars are getting it wrong who is giving them the false information or is it as i said the ambiguous nature of Haiths.

Response: The statement doesn't make any sense. If they are scholars how can they be wrong? A scholar is a learnered person. If he is wrong than he is not learned and is not a scholar.

 

[England my lionheart]

so then the english people are to be punished for crimes against humanity. well the queen, not every peorson. and still people look up to her, respect her, etc... so why is it that Muhammed (saws) is a criminal, and people shouldn't look up to him. i mean if you compare the two,what the queen did comapred to Muhammed (saws) is like comparing the ocean to a drop of water, isn't it. and yet Muhammed (saws) is still the criminal right.



we never did anything bad.

No British King or Queen has had any power since the English civil war ended in 1651
so to blame our dear Queen of crimes against humanity is wrong,if anything she is a figurehead of victory against Facism in WW2 .

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: The statement doesn't make any sense. If they are scholars how can they be wrong? A scholar is a learnered person. If he is wrong than he is not learned and is not a scholar.

So if thats the case then the scholars who were baying for blood and Jihad in Turkey a few weeks ago are right,the fact that no Muslim has answered the call proves they are wrong = scholars can be wrong.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: That doesn't answer the question as to what evidence has convinced you to believe what you believe. You have also read hadiths and talk to muslims that go against what you believe as well. The question is why have you chosen not to believe them and uphold your beliefs instead?

I think the reason i believe what i do about Muhammed is because i was not raised a Muslim in much the same way as i was'nt raised a Hindu or Buddist so i see a different picture to you.
I cannot say you are wrong believing what you do,thats faith,thats your freedom of choice which is essential in a free world but one Mans Elvis is another Mans Kareoke singer.

 

[gnostic]

The statement doesn't make any sense. If they are scholars how can they be wrong? A scholar is a learnered person. If he is wrong than he is not learned and is not a scholar.

That's a very narrow view. Any human can be wrong, regardless of whether they are scholars or learned. And it does matter if you're Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, atheist, etc. You're human, and human can make mistake(s). You're living in a real world, not some sort of fantasy or ideal world.

 

[gnostic]

i know what you mean, in my case my brain just shuts down and i need to find a way to entrtain my self otherwise i will get really bored. if that is the case here then why are you posting your thoughts or comments in this thread if you cannot stand it. when i cant stand something i don't participate in it.

To let people know that statement like "Muhammad is the greatest" or "Muhammad is the last prophet" from the Muslim camp or "Jesus is the true saviour" or "You can only be saved through Jesus [alone]" from the Christian camp, all of this is just bragging, like any man or boy who would brag about his car, his house, his job or his penis.

When I hear something like this, I can't resist deflating one's ego.

If you admired your prophet, then admire him, but avoid superfluous statement, because only a petty fool would make such statement.

 

[Gharib]

If you admired your prophet, then admire him,

i still admire him, never said i stopped.

but avoid superfluous statement, because only a petty fool would make such statement.

[/QUOTE]

were have i used superfluous statements? but you know when one looks up at someone else or they love someone so much then only the best words in the universe can come close enought to show the true love for someone, in this case for the beloved prophet of the muslims, Muhammed (saws)

well you know only a petty fool would go bragging around saying i hate this person, i hate that person, i'm just correcting them. (no offence to anyone)

 

[Autodidact]

Response: The statement doesn't make any sense. If they are scholars how can they be wrong? A scholar is a learnered person. If he is wrong than he is not learned and is not a scholar.

What about when scholars disagree? Are they both right?

 

[Fatihah]

Talk about lazy! I mentioned already you need only to click on the links to go to the actual hadith in question. But here, let me do it all for you. Would you like me to type out the ahadith themselves as well?!

Sahih Bukhari:

Satan lives in your nose while you sleep. 004.054.516

Satan ‘relieves’ himself in your ears while you sleep. 004.054.492

Satan farts every time someone calls adhaan 001.011.582

Response: In the qur'an we read, in ch.14: 24,25, "Dost thou not see how Allah sets forth a parable, of a good word? (It is) like a good tree whose root is firm and whose branches(reach) into heaven?

It brings forth its fruit at all times by the command of its Lord. And Allah sets forth parables for men that they be reminded".

In other words, the hadith's quoted above are metaphors which are to encourage people to believe. Prayer is and important element in islam, so to make sure all muslims know the severity of one who doesn't pray, the prophet speaks in parables (metaphors) like "if you don't pray Satan will urinate in your ear" as a comparison to those who don't pray. Naturally no one likes the idea of someone ******* in their ears so hearing things like this will help encourage them to always pray.

Quote: Kodanshi
Muhammad’s mole on his back consists of the actual ‘seal’ of prophets 001.004.189

Response: I followed your link accordingly and it does not say that. So you should be humble enough to say that the quoted hadith is a fabrication and it is not there.

Quote: Kodanshi
A tale about Hell which shows a woeful grasp of the earth’s rotation around the sun affecting weather 004.054.482

Response: I don't see the difficulty here. No one here nor can any scientist prove otherwise just as no one here can prove that it does happen. So no one can say the hadith is wrong while the muslims who love Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) hear and obey.

Muhammad bewitched 1 008.075.400

Quote: Kodanshi
and

Muhammad Bewitched 2 004.053.400


Sahih Muslim:

Response: In the qur'an we read "And in like manner We have made for every Prophet an enemy, the evil ones from among the men and the Jinn. They suggest one to another gilded speech in order to deceive. And if thy Lord had. His Will, they would not have done it, so leave them alone with that which they fabricate." Ch.6:112
Allah tells us that he makes enemies for every Prophet. This is to test the soul of humanity. We are to observe the manner in which a prophet handles these situations and do the same. So Allah allowed the magic to affect his prophet in order to show that when you are in confliction that you should seek the help of Allah first and foremost as your medicine instead of relying so strongly on so called medical treatments and advice from doctors and psychiartrists because as we all know, they too can make mistakes. We also know that there are even medical miracles in which doctors themselves can not explain which is why it was they prayer of Muhammad that healed him and not a doctor.

Quote: Kodanshi
That anyone who takes up archery and stops practising it has, in effect, apostated from Isl�m. 020.4714

Response: The hadith does not say that they are apostates. This is a fabrication and I used your own link to verify so you can't deny it.

Muhammad strikes ‘Aishah. 004.2127

Response: I have followed your own link and there is nothing there that says that. So you should be humble enough to either correct the link or acknowledge that it is a fabrication.

 

[Panda]

Response: The statement doesn't make any sense. If they are scholars how can they be wrong? A scholar is a learnered person. If he is wrong than he is not learned and is not a scholar.

Pssst being a scholar doesn't make you always right.

 

[Fatihah]

The link contains evidence which I believe to be true. If we go down this line of reasoning, I can provide evidence for my evidence, but then you could simply ask me for evidence of my evidence of my evidence.

Response: Exactly. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with asking someone to verify their evidence?

Quote: Imagist
I ask you: what evidence do you have to disbelieve that article? How exactly do you think that Muhammed came to rule over Mecca, a city that had thrown him out? Did they just one day decide that they really liked him after all, and welcome him in with open arms?

Response: My friend, I have no difficulty and would love to answer your question but I don't want to juggle two things at the same time. Right now you have made claims concerning Muhammad and islam and I am asking for the evidence to back up your claims. Once you've done so, I would be more than happy to answer your question. Otherwise, I would get the impression that that you don't have any evidence and only wish to slander. If that is the case than I woul discontinue any dialogue with a person of such character. So I would need to know the true intent behind your arguments before I engage in a dialogue with you or anyone for that matter because I created this to truly understand why Muhammad is viewed the way he is.

 

[Autodidact]

Fatihah: You have not responded to my point that murder is not a good thing, and people who promote murder are not good people.

 

[Fatihah]

Camel's urine contains toxins and waste products which were flushed from the camel's body.

Furthermore, Muhammed didn't just tell them to consume camel's urine, he claimed that it had medicinal properties. It would be bad to tell people that eating gelatin would cure an ailment that it doesn't have any effect on.

Response: O.K. Now if your problem is that you disagree with the fact that camel's urine does not have medical properties and this somehow disqualifies him as a prophet or as a man of great character than provide the evidence that shows that Muhammad was wrong. Otherwise, your contention to the hadith is rather senseless.

 

[Fatihah]

Surely you can tell the difference between historical accounts and books of philosophy.

Response: That doesn't answer the question as to why you can consider something is true because it was written.

 

[Imagist]

so who gave the meccans justification to kick him out?

I never said they were justified. However, just because someone does you a wrong doesn't mean that you can go back and do something even worse to them.

and which people did he kill exactly, when mecca was invaded all the people became muslims, do you wish to know why, the people said "o muhammed what will you do with us" he said "you are free to do what you wish" (the wording may not be exact cos i don't have the actual text with me), once they saw how murciful he was they all embraced islam, no meccans were harmed when the city was taken over by the muslims, the only people that were harmed were those who fought in the 3 wars.

This is simply not true. Read the links I posted.

 

[Fatihah]

Fatihah: If you believe that killing someone for their religious belief demonstrates good character, then our values are so different that there is no point is discussing the matter. I think it demonstrates the worst possible kind of character. To me, murder is a bad thing. If you think it's a good thing then yes, you will find Muhammed to be of good character. I happen to have a problem with it.

Response: If the idea of me wanting to a defend my life and those I love from a people who's religion is to kill me is an example of me posessing bad character than yes are values are very different and there is no point to continue discussing the matter.

Quote: Autodidact
I also have a feeling that you will agree, as soon the specifics are changed. What I mean is, if a Christian converts to Islam, is it good character for other Christians to kill him?

Response: I don't know the circumstances of the situation nor the intent or reason behind why the christian wants to kill. You will have to be more specific.

 

[Imagist]

so then the english people are to be punished for crimes against humanity. well the queen, not every peorson. and still people look up to her, respect her, etc... so why is it that Muhammed (saws) is a criminal, and people shouldn't look up to him. i mean if you compare the two,what the queen did comapred to Muhammed (saws) is like comparing the ocean to a drop of water, isn't it. and yet Muhammed (saws) is still the criminal right.

Your argument amounts to "someone else did something worse, so what Muhammed did is okay." Surely you can see that this is not a valid argument. The same argument could be used to justify literally anything as long as you don't kill 40 million people (Stalin killed 40 million people, so as long as you don't do that, there's someone worse than you).

You'll actually find that when the first settlers came to America, they were not associated with the king (England was ruled by a king at the time, not a queen).

 

[Imagist]

so then why do you beleive the false accusations that "Muhammed (saws) is a criminal, a bad man, etc..." just because they don't beleive in him it doesn't mean you should do what they do. does it?

I have no reason to believe that the accusations are false. The only sources we have on the subject say that he had sexual relations with a nine-year-old, he invaded Mecca for religious reasons, and he recommended camel urine as a medicine.

 

[Imagist]

well another verse in the quran says to not start war, because Allah hates those who start wars or who provoke. so again the verse is about times of war.

That's a very nice verse, but that doesn't mean that Muhammed followed it.

that specific verse says to kill the non beleivers everywhere you see them, but the specific people that it is speaking of are those people who are armed with weapons. where ever you see them kill them.

There is no evidence to support your claim that these people have to be armed, but even if they were, is aggression justified just because people are armed? I think not.