Muhammed on South Park

[Poisonshady313]

I don' contest that South Park is obnoxious. They once dedicated an episode to what I do for a living, and I was far from flattered.

What do you do for a living?

 

[*Anne*]

What do you do for a living?

Let's just say I work with people. It's not a big deal, but I've learned not to share certain personal details on forums. It can come back and bite you in the butt.

Anywho, back to the subject at hand. While I support not censoring the episode, and the natural reaction to then challenge RevolutionMuslim.com is the kind of defiance I admire, I don't think a special day to create offensive cartoons (and you know some are going to be bad) is productive in any way.

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's just say I work with people.

It's not a big deal, but I've learned not to share personal details on forums. It can come back and bite you in the butt.

Too late. I already know that you like chocolate. My favorite is El Rey 73.5%.
I know that statement will cause me much grief later.

 

[*Anne*]

Chocolate is a beautiful thing, isn't it? I love Godiva.

 

[Revoltingest]

Chocolate is a beautiful thing, isn't it? I love Godiva.

I like my chocolate coarse, bitter & cheap.....like my posts & my avatar.

 

[*Anne*]

I like my chocolate coarse, bitter & cheap.....like my posts & my avatar.

Willie rocks!

Godiva truffles are my absolute favorite, but I can't buy them too often. They're expensive, so I reserve them for special occasions.

Very rarely do I turn down the cheaper stuff.

 

[darkendless]

The whole world knows, some Muslims don't take kindly to jokes pertaining to Muhammad.

Who cares?

You and I know South Park is just a heap of garbage, full of worthless knowledge and expression of values. It becomes funny simply because it is so twisted and inane. Unfortunately, in this life, some people think shows like south park give credible and valuable knowledge, this then, becomes a very serious problem.

Its hilarious. The more tabboo the subject, the funnier it is to insult. If people are offended, its their problem. They need to get over their own sense of self importance.

Parker and Stone may not have broken any legal codes, they have certainly breached any moral and ethical codes, of intelligent human beings. However I personally believe they do this with every episode.

Morals and ethics? Why is it immoral and unethical to make light of religion? If people are offended its their own fault. They need to lighten up.

 

[footprints]

Who cares?

Only caring people darkendless, nobody else.

Its hilarious. The more tabboo the subject, the funnier it is to insult. If people are offended, its their problem. They need to get over their own sense of self importance.

I say the same about the atheist when I give them some of their own back. They offend very easily. I don't ever forget though what I am doing is wrong, and not the right way of doing it. However as they say, if you can't beat them, join them.

Morals and ethics? Why is it immoral and unethical to make light of religion? If people are offended its their own fault. They need to lighten up.

It is immoral and unethical to make fun of any belief. I know my wrong when I make fun of the atheist, one day I hope they will see their own wrong when they make fun of the theist. They do claim to be the most rational and reasonable, one day I do hope they become what they preach and they claim to be.

 

[footprints]

Is it ironic that you find South Park's writers to be wrong for their disrespect for your religion, yet you may describe their show as "garbage", "twisted" & "inane"?
Are you not wrong for disrespecting our value of free speech? You say their show is full of "worthless knowledge", yet that is the view I hold of the Koran.
Just as I don't read the Koran, Muslims should perhaps not watch South Park. We should not seek out things at which to take offense.

Frankly, I find South Park to be worse than offensive....it's boring. The solution....I don't watch it.
(I heard that they mocked atheists once. Did any of us send them death threats?)

Please tell me what my religion is Revoltingest, I would love to hear it. It is always wonderful dealing with such rational and logical people as yourself.

 

[darkendless]

Only caring people darkendless, nobody else.

I don't see why beliefs should be held to a higher standard than anything else that is viewed satyrically.

I say the same about the atheist when I give them some of their own back. They offend very easily. I don't ever forget though what I am doing is wrong, and not the right way of doing it. However as they say, if you can't beat them, join them.

Yeh but thats their problem not yours. If you can't take back what you dish out then its best to not speak at all

It is immoral and unethical to make fun of any belief. I know my wrong when I make fun of the atheist, one day I hope they will see their own wrong when they make fun of the theist. They do claim to be the most rational and reasonable, one day I do hope they become what they preach and they claim to be.

Why? Why are beliefs special?

 

[Revoltingest]

Please tell me what my religion is Revoltingest, I would love to hear it. It is always wonderful dealing with such rational and logical people as yourself.

Uh oh! Are you wielding sarcasm to point out that I made a faulty presumption that you're a Muslim?
I did a minor re-wording of my prior post to remove reference to your faith. But the point about Islam remains.

Your coy post suggests that you like jousting. I'm OK with that, but I'd rather steer this in a direction of more
friendly discussion...at least to the extent possible when discussing an offensive TV show.

 

[footprints]

Bringing up moral and ethical codes is interesting.

I don' contest that South Park is obnoxious. They once dedicated an episode to what I do for a living, and I was far from flattered.

But when you bring up moral and ethical in terms of what's offensive, where do we draw the line? What if scantily clad women on TV suddenly become seriously offensive? Or gay characters? Or unwed mothers?

I'm not arguing here. I'm trying to look ahead and see what ramifications could come from giving in on this issue.

A truly respectful world would be boring compared to our current standards.

People already complain about scantily clad women on TV, Gay characters and unwed mothers. Many other things as well and all are very serious about the offense they perceive in it.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (just change beauty, it applies to everything).

 

[footprints]

Uh oh! Are you wielding sarcasm to point out that I made a faulty presumption that you're a Muslim?
If so, then a minor re-wording of my prior post is in order. But the same point will remain.

I have a word of advice. Rather than being coy, you could just clearly state your case, & save time.

I have already stated my case. If you hadn't noticed it was what you answered.

Remember your answer, it is where you jumped to many false conclusions and went off on some vast personal tagent derived from your own imagination.

The good news is, eventually you did support my view, the show is garbage.

 

[*Anne*]

A truly respectful world would be boring compared to our current standards.

I'm okay with a little boring.

People already complain about scantily clad women on TV, Gay characters and unwed mothers. Many other things as well and all are very serious about the offense they perceive in it.

*nods* Yes. Obama couldn't kill a fly without PETA calling him on it. However, I'm referring to groups that go beyond complaining and regular old protesting. RM.com made a not-so-thinly-veiled threat that included a link to information about where Parker and Stone live. The response was censorship by Comedy Central.

That alone is my issue. I don't like the message that sends. If we give in here, what's next? Some crazy anti-gay group could threaten in the same manner. Then what? Do we give in again? Where will it stop?

 

[Revoltingest]

I have already stated my case. If you hadn't noticed it was what you answered.

Remember your answer, it is where you jumped to many false conclusions and went off on some vast personal tagent derived from your own imagination.

The good news is, eventually you did support my view, the show is garbage.

Many false conclusions? Okaaaaaaaaaaaaay................
Oh, well, as long as you're happy with the result, then I can say nitey nite.

 

[darkendless]

People already complain about scantily clad women on TV, Gay characters and unwed mothers. Many other things as well and all are very serious about the offense they perceive in it.

Wow.... christian values. We've been under the Christian thumb for 1400 years, we don't need any more of that when theres 100's of other religions to please as well.

 

[footprints]

I don't see why beliefs should be held to a higher standard than anything else that is viewed satyrically.

It isn't just beliefs which are held to this standard. Sexual discrimination, well at least for us in Australia is held in the same regard, as too is gender discrimination, racial discrimination, physical discrimination.

I know we are not perfect, it is hard hill to climb, but at least from my perspective, we are slowly getting there. We are a far cry from the "White Australia Policy," and belief that, "Women should be kept in the kitchen, bare foot and pregnant."

Yeh but thats their problem not yours. If you can't take back what you dish out then its best to not speak at all

LOL it is a good philosophy, but sadly one that leads to more abuse. Many people in this world carry problems and issues, sadly again, many are unaware of the problems they carry and blame other people for what is really inside themselves. Other people may have the excuse of ignorance, I haven't been able to use that excuse for many years.

Why? Why are beliefs special?

Not a simple answer, sorry.

Spiritual beliefs are something personal, something special. Attacking (which can simply mean giving an opposing belief or hypothesis of opinion) a highly spiritual persons belief, is akin to a mother seeing their child being attacked. Muhammad to the people of Islam is like their own Father, attack, demean, belittle, decry, deface the image of Muhammad in any way shape or form, and you cut straight into their own heart and it becomes a personal attack. They will defend Muhammad with whatever it takes, for some this will be as little as passing the person off as a complete idiot without saying a single word, in others it may rise to the point of a verbal attack, in others it escalates again to the position of death threats, and in the real extreme cases, death may even be the end resultant.

This though is similar to any other belief, I can either say, all agnostics are silly, or I can say a particular person is silly for having an agnostic belief, either which way, the effect is the same, albeit using the term agnostic isn't seen as a direct personal attack. Anybody who is an agnostic would know that this personally relates directly to them. If I wanted to, I could push any extremist of any belief into wanting to kill me and some to the point where they would carry through with it. The Atheist belief is not exempt from it, it all pertains to human nature.

This then has to be coupled with human perception, life experience. Atheists in some parts the USA have a much harder time than any atheist in Australia. Over a period of time, they begin to notice patterns, this is why so many people jump to the conclusion that I am a theist. Anybody who opposes their view, therefore has to be a theist. What I might say in general conversation, they will take personal offence at, this is simply because in their own life experience, any conversation which went a particular way, most of the time, if not all of the time, ended up in the same way. Atheists of course, are not alone, theists, everybody will do the same thing. They will pick up a pattern, relate to it using their own life experience, draw an association of it from their conscious or even subconscious memory, then run with it. In the end, it is not just their beliefs we are talking about, they are defending their own intelligence, the very thing which has given eveybody their beliefs to begin with. Human intelligence is the very essence of our basic survival instinct.

We know all of this and much more. It is the sole reason now why we have anti-discrimination laws. We also know it takes time for people to change, and that if people cannot change willingly due to their own volition (which many can't due to their own intelligence) we can force this position by laws, which over a period of time, will force human habit by sheer weight of perception. Monkey see monkey do, or in this case, monkey don't see, monkey don't do.

 

[footprints]

I'm okay with a little boring.

LOL

*nods* Yes. Obama couldn't kill a fly without PETA calling him on it. However, I'm referring to groups that go beyond complaining and regular old protesting. RM.com made a not-so-thinly-veiled threat that included a link to information about where Parker and Stone live. The response was censorship by Comedy Central.

That alone is my issue. I don't like the message that sends. If we give in here, what's next? Some crazy anti-gay group could threaten in the same manner. Then what? Do we give in again? Where will it stop?

This is the catch 22. What do we do.

My personal opinion, is not give into the threats per se, but try to teach these extemists what respect is, and what respect is all about, give and take from either side. The best way of doing this is by example. Unfortunately, people do not always learn by example, and many in turn will see this as a weakness, and not as respect. Turning the other cheek only works on intelligent, respectful people, not on intelligent disrespectful people. Unfortunately not even reasonable Muslims like the ones we have in this forum could talk commonsense to these people, and my greatest fear is, these decent and reasonable people will get caught up in the stereotyped image, and is not what Islam is all about.

One thing for sure, ignoring the problem won't make it go away.

What are the other choices, tell them to go jump off a cliff, my life, my business I will do as I like. Each standing as superior forces of their own might. If one group doing this isn't bad enough, two groups doing the same thing has just has to be worse. Abuse just leads to abuse, the longer the abuse continues, the greater the abuse becomes. My personal belief down this line is, if the world is going to go to war, I certainly don't want it to be over South Park.

 

[footprints]

Many false conclusions? Okaaaaaaaaaaaaay................
Oh, well, as long as you're happy with the result, then I can say nitey nite.

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay...............

I am always happy, I laugh a lot, albeit at times I can always be happier. nitey nite.

 

[footprints]

Wow.... christian values. We've been under the Christian thumb for 1400 years, we don't need any more of that when theres 100's of other religions to please as well.

LOL darkendless, are you forgetting you are talking to another Australian. We have been under the rule of the Victorian Pom, for most of our 200 plus years. Basically only broke away from the Victorian Era in the 1950's. Some christians may be stuck up, none that I know of, though. Okay, perhaps I would put Pell, and Howard in the stuck up, christian squad.

It isn't just Christians in Australia and you should know that, it is also pretend, want to be, social upper class, who would never think of dunking a biscuit in their tea. My, my, the Queen wouldn't be seen dead doing that. And just look at those kids today, why can't they be perfect like we were, perfect in every way.