Multiculturalism:Your Opinion

[Glaurung]

what do you mean by arbitrarily gendered nouns?

le roi, la table, un café, une personne.

Notice something?

 

[Estro Felino]

le roi, la table, un café, une personne.

Notice something?

yeah...that happens in French.
In Spanish and in Italian, noun genders are almost always recognizable.

el gatO- la gatA Sp.
cat
il gatto- la gattA It.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Even as an atheist I think that the KJV has a certain majesty. It is one of the greatest literary works in the English language - I believe it was some forty of the greatest minds of their time collaborating in a truly epic feat of scholarship.

Welp, I don't think being an atheist should stop you appreciating some of the wisdom or writing of the Bible. AND I think it's entirely possible for a book to be steeped in majesty. Just didn't think a language in and of itself contains dignity. Instead, it is a tool used by craftsmen to build works. Or, in the clumsier hands of the general populace, a means of hammering out a crude argument. Or even cruder joke.

The KJV was written to be spoken aloud, it is as mesmerising a text as human intelligence can muster. I understand to your objecting to it's lack of precision - but perhaps that is a part of the power it's brilliant authors invested in it.
It is a work of art, that like all such great works teaches us much about the society that created it.

Nah, wasn't referring to a lack of precision in the Bible. I think it has a lack of precision, for what it's worth, but I think that's far more to do with the time in which it was written than anything. It would be as unfair to apply current rules to it as it is to apply them to the writings of Tacitus. Plus, I'm just self-effacing to know that I'm pretty poor at allegory and metaphor.

I actually just meant that English lacks a little precision compared to some languages. Don't actually KNOW that I'm right on that though. I only speak two languages (well...kinda one and a bit) and one is Tok Pisin, which barely counts.

Anywhoos...I actually think what you wrote was refreshing. Never understood atheists who were allergic to religious texts.

 

[illykitty]

I didn't say that I don't understand the Québécois pronunciation. but I need to concentrate more than when I talk to a Parisian.
I think that it is very useful for a French speaker to be able to speak in both accents.

as for anglicisms...well...I don't think that the government was doing a bad thing.
.

I have to disagree, it's not the place of the government to tell people how to speak. Culture, language and even whole countries aren't eternal. They are subject of change. The government trying to force something to always stay the same is very controlling and not to mention unrealistic.

I am not against suggestions, I'm against repression.

 

[Estro Felino]

I have to disagree, it's not the place of the government to tell people how to speak. Culture, language and even whole countries aren't eternal. They are subject of change. The government trying to force something to always stay the same is very controlling and not to mention unrealistic.

I am not against suggestions, I'm against repression.

Of course. Each nation is free to speak the language they want to.
It's interesting that all the Spanish speaking countries (more than 20) accepted to join the Real Academia Espanola in order to assure absolute linguistic uniformity in all the Spanish speaking world.
And the results and the advantages are visible, given that a Mexican and a Spanish can understand each other perfectly.

 

[Glaurung]

I have to disagree, it's not the place of the government to tell people how to speak. Culture, language and even whole countries aren't eternal. They are subject of change. The government trying to force something to always stay the same is very controlling and not to mention unrealistic.

I am not against suggestions, I'm against repression.

What happened to Occitan in France was tragic in my books.

 

[Estro Felino]

What happened to Occitan in France was tragic in my books.

I may sound cynical...but I think that the French government has rightfully done the best thing for France and for the prestige of the nation.
Thanks to France imperialism in the 19th century, French became the first international language in Africa. The French empire enabled tens of different nations to communicate with each other.
Why should I learn Arabic to communicate with Tunisians, given that they already speak French?

ans so it was absolutely necessary to denigrate the south languages...such as Occitan, or Celtic languages like Breton.
After that Richelie founded the Académie Française, I think it was obvious that all the other languages of the French territories would be declassified.

by the way...do you really think that French is as beautiful as Occitan?
I don't think so.

 

[Glaurung]

I may sound cynical...but I think that the French government has rightfully done the best thing for France and for the prestige of the nation.

You honestly have no issue with a government, imposing a language on you and your community out of some appeal to national unity? It's not as if one who grows up speaking a dreaded "patois", becomes incapable of learning the national lingua franca if it gains enough currency. (which French would have gained anyway especially with the advent of modern communications media)

by the way...do you really think that French is as beautiful as Occitan?

Beauty is a little subjective here and I'm not sure why you'd bring it up. I haven't had much exposure to Occitan and having gone through the effort of learning French from scratch, I have become somewhat attached to the language.

 

[Estro Felino]

You honestly have no issue with a government, imposing a language on you and your community out of some appeal to national unity?

well...I am even angry with the Italian government, which recognizes the officialism of languages like Friulian, Sardinian and Ladin.

This is an insult to the Italian language. Do these minority languages have a history, or a literature? They don't. They should be declassified to dialects, and be allowed in private life only.

I find scandalous that they put Sardinian translations on road signs

 

[lewisnotmiller]

well...I am even angry with the Italian government, which recognizes the officialism of languages like Friulian, Sardinian and Ladin.

This is an insult to the Italian language. Do these minority languages have a history, or a literature? They don't. They should be declassified to dialects, and be allowed in private life only.

I find scandalous that they put Sardinian translations on road signs

Sardinian is a language, not a dialect of Italian.
How that fact is an insult to the Italian language is beyond me.

 

[Estro Felino]

Sardinian is a language, not a dialect of Italian.
How that fact is an insult to the Italian language is beyond me.

In fact I said it is a minority language.

 

[Drolefille]

Sardinian is a language, not a dialect of Italian.
How that fact is an insult to the Italian language is beyond me.

I feel distant family members who still live in Sardinia getting cranky.

You know there's a tradition of Sardinian witchcraft, perhaps Hays is going to find himself the target of the Evil Eye

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Realizing America is a collection of bits and pieces from several different cultures, from the beginning to today, I'm all for multiculturalism. The music I listen to depends on it, the books I read are often based in it, and I'd probably starve to death because I'm not too fond of American cuisine.

 

[Alceste]

Well I'll put in my two cents as a Quebecoise, I don't see what the fuss is, what's the big deal? It seems to me that some seem to think Quebec can close off to everyone else (well perhaps except France) and that just won't work. Every time I hear issues going on about it all I can do is .

I think someone being in Quebec should learn French of course, but to impose that everything must be changed to "preserve" it... I don't see the point of doing this. If people love French, they will continue speaking French regardless.

I grew up hearing 3 languages, doesn't make me any less Quebecoise and I gained so much from it. I found it a lot easier to learn other languages than my peers who only knew French growing up. Of course though I don't get the impression that those nationalistic Quebecois are even interested in learning anything else but French. That mentality, frankly, scares me.

I'm hoping this isn't too incoherent it's 6 and I've been up since 4.

I agree. When it comes to offering opportunities to learn French, Quebec is actually very good. Coming from Alberta with very little practical French, I took a full time course for three months for $40. They've really got that part well covered.

It's the nationalism, with its contempt for anglophones and other cultures, that I found disturbing. And I admit that dealing with public officials who refused to provide service in English while I was still struggling with French was really frustrating. I thought our civil servants were required to be bilingual in Canada, but apparently not in Quebec.

 

[Poeticus]

Dear Canadian RF Members,

If I were to attend, say, McGill University---would I have to learn French ? Or does that university, which is in Quebec, give instruction in the English ? I only ask because it is one of the few colleges I am interested in terms of transfer.

EDIT: Yes, English is the language of instruction at McGill. Phew.

 

[Alceste]

Dear Canadian RF Members,

If I were to attend, say, McGill University---would I have to learn French ? Or does that university, which is in Quebec, give instruction in the English ? I only ask because it is one of the few colleges I am interested in terms of transfer.

EDIT: Yes, English is the language of instruction at McGill. Phew.

Gorgeous campus, too.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's the nationalism, with its contempt for anglophones and other cultures, that I found disturbing. And I admit that dealing with public officials who refused to provide service in English while I was still struggling with French was really frustrating. I thought our civil servants were required to be bilingual in Canada, but apparently not in Quebec.

I have to be sincere; those public officials were doing their job. Actually federalism implies that a state like Quebec can choose its official language.
so it's disrespectful to expect that a "foreign state" speaks the language you speak.

It's like I went to Japan and I expected that Japanese people speak Italian.

 

[Alceste]

I have to be sincere; those public officials were doing their job. Actually federalism implies that a state like Quebec can choose its official language.
so it's disrespectful to expect that a "foreign state" speaks the language you speak.

It's like I went to Japan and I expected that Japanese people speak Italian.

You seem to be misinformed. Quebec is part of Canada, and in Canada we have two official languages. Public facing government representatives are expected to be able to communicate in both official languages.

 

[Wirey]

I have to be sincere; those public officials were doing their job. Actually federalism implies that a state like Quebec can choose its official language.

Actually, no. Canada is bilingual, and a Human Rights complaint brought before the UN found that the French only law was a human rights violation:

Charter of the French Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You shouldn't make guesses about my country when you don't know anything about it. The French-only law is at it's base a way for racism to stay legal. It's not supported in Montreal, which is very multicultural, but the hicks love it. Immigrants want to learn English, and the French Canadian version of hillbillies use this to keep them out of Trois Riviere and Chicoutimi.

 

[Thruve]

I read an article that stated white people will eventually be non existant. I was like WHAT?
*looks for white german female to breed with*