Multiverse Theory Debunked Using Scientific Method.

[james bond]

People who like quantum mechanics should get a kick out of this.

We have an experiment now that shows that multiverses cannot exist. The many worlds theory that a majority of scientists believe today is just illusion. It only exists when the quantum particles are measured (observed) and consciousness does not have to be present.

To put it in terms of the Shrodinger's Cat thought experiment, we cannot have the cat existing in two states at the same time or superposition. This is nature. It is either alive or dead when we observe it.

How this was shown was in 2011 when two scientists. Shan Yu and Danko Nikolic of the Max Planck Institute, Johann Wolfgang Goethe University, in their paper Annalen der Physik, showed that consciousness was not necessary and only measurement. It means through scientific measurement that the reality of one state or another exists in the natural world. For example, with Shrodinger's cat, it can either be dead or alive, but can't be both at the same time. That is just an illusion even though we can map the illusion with light particles. As per the double slit experiment, the reality exists when it is measured. What we see is just the potential probablities when things are not measured.

 

[sun rise]

I don't see what you cite as bearing on a multiverse theory. I've found no link to any experiment about the multiverse. I found a lot of references to people saying that we can't falsify the multiverse hypothesis so it's bad science.

If you have a link to a reference to an actual multiverse experiment, I'll look at it.

 

[james bond]

I don't see what you cite as bearing on a multiverse theory. I've found no link to any experiment about the multiverse. I found a lot of references to people saying that we can't falsify the multiverse hypothesis so it's bad science.

If you have a link to a reference to an actual multiverse experiment, I'll look at it.

Denial is not science. There is no multiverse experiment because there is no multiverse to work with. Stephen Hawking was investigating the past light from the big bang to see if he could find evidence to back up a multiverse, but didn't find anything.

OTOH, the Bible tells us that God created only one universe and this experiment backs it up. It's the scientific method and is observable and verifiable.

The scientist who first came up with the many worlds hypothesis is Hugh Everett III. I lol'd when they put his picture up as I did not know who came up with the crazy hypothesis of how multiple universes could be created based on someone observing whether the photon went through the left slit or right slit. If you do the wave-particle experiment with large objects such as tennis balls then it always goes through one slit or another as particle. This duality of wave or particle only happens when someone watches photons or light partcles whether it went through the left or right slit. Everett was criticized when he came up with his interpretation, but Ervin Shrodinger gave credence to it with his Shrodinger's cat though experiment in 1935. Eventually, modern theoretical physicists thought this is what happens in the real world when they studied and updated quantum mechanics -- that many worlds or multiverses are formed from the double slit experiment or one reality is created when we observe or make decisions.

Except the wave collapses even if some mechanical or electronic device measures which slit the particle went through. It means that no conscious observer has to be present and as long as the particle is measured then the wave collapses. This is the only thing we can observe as existing in our universe. The wave is a probability and illusion that it exists in nature.

This was so troubling to Stephen Hawking that he wrote a paper on it before his death. He even said that he didn't put much stock in multiverses, but this is what he was working on before his death. A smart guy like him and he was wrong.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Denial is not science. There is no multiverse experiment because there is no multiverse to work with. Stephen Hawking was investigating the past light from the big bang to see if he could find evidence to back up a multiverse, but didn't find anything.

OTOH, the Bible tells us that God created only one universe and this experiment backs it up. It's the scientific method and is observable and verifiable.

The scientist who first came up with the many worlds hypothesis is Hugh Everett III. I lol'd when they put his picture up as I did not know who came up with the crazy hypothesis of how multiple universes could be created based on someone observing whether the photon went through the left slit or right slit. If you do the wave-particle experiment with large objects such as tennis balls then it always goes through one slit or another as particle. This duality of wave or particle only happens when someone watches photons or light partcles whether it went through the left or right slit. Everett was criticized when he came up with his interpretation, but Ervin Shrodinger gave credence to it with his Shrodinger's cat though experiment in 1935. Eventually, modern theoretical physicists thought this is what happens in the real world when they studied and updated quantum mechanics -- that many worlds or multiverses are formed from the double slit experiment or one reality is created when we observe or make decisions.

Except the wave collapses even if some mechanical or electronic device measures which slit the particle went through. It means that no conscious observer has to be present and as long as the particle is measured then the wave collapses. This is the only thing we can observe as existing in our universe. The wave is a probability and illusion that it exists in nature.

This was so troubling to Stephen Hawking that he wrote a paper on it before his death. He even said that he didn't put much stock in multiverses, but this is what he was working on before his death. A smart guy like him and he was wrong.

Einstein was smart, and he was wrong about quantum mechanics.

 

[Milton Platt]

People who like quantum mechanics should get a kick out of this.

We have an experiment now that shows that multiverses cannot exist. The many worlds theory that a majority of scientists believe today is just illusion. It only exists when the quantum particles are measured (observed) and consciousness does not have to be present.

To put it in terms of the Shrodinger's Cat thought experiment, we cannot have the cat existing in two states at the same time or superposition. This is nature. It is either alive or dead when we observe it.

How this was shown was in 2011 when two scientists. Shan Yu and Danko Nikolic of the Max Planck Institute, Johann Wolfgang Goethe University, in their paper Annalen der Physik, showed that consciousness was not necessary and only measurement. It means through scientific measurement that the reality of one state or another exists in the natural world. For example, with Shrodinger's cat, it can either be dead or alive, but can't be both at the same time. That is just an illusion even though we can map the illusion with light particles. As per the double slit experiment, the reality exists when it is measured. What we see is just the potential probablities when things are not measured.

Super position supposedly exists only at the quantum level, so unless you have a quantum level cat, it's a bogus concept.
You cannot have a measurement absent a conscious being to do the measuring.
Multiverses? Hell, I don't know.........

 

[Polymath257]

Super position supposedly exists only at the quantum level, so unless you have a quantum level cat, it's a bogus concept.

There are ways to produce macroscopic quantum systems with superposition of macroscopic things.

You cannot have a measurement absent a conscious being to do the measuring

Not true. It works just as well if a Geiger counter does the measurement. The key is complex interaction with an environment.

Multiverses? Hell, I don't know.........

 

[Wandering Monk]

When I watched the Elegant Universe, Professor Brian Greene explained that a multiverse is a mathematical result of getting past the singularity problem trying to model the universe using 10 dimensions. Adding an 11th dimension resolved the breakdown of the mathematical modeling of the Big Bang, but resulted in the possibility of multiverses.

 

[james bond]

Einstein was smart, and he was wrong about quantum mechanics.

Yes. Einstein thought there were hidden variables, but that was disproved by the experiment. It also showed Ervin Shrodinger was wrong, too. I won't insult these scientists by tossing Hugh Everett III into it. What a clown. If you believe him, then give up the Copenhagen interpretation. Everett didn't think Shrodinger's equation collapses and believed in the superposition as real. He was mocked and ridiculed and he is again with the new findings.

 

[james bond]

Super position supposedly exists only at the quantum level, so unless you have a quantum level cat, it's a bogus concept.
You cannot have a measurement absent a conscious being to do the measuring.
Multiverses? Hell, I don't know.........

Are you Hugh Everett III? I just bashed him to death in my last post. He didn't believe Shrodinger, nor the wave collapsing, nor backed the Copenhagen Principle.

Maybe that's not fair. What superposition exists at the quantum level? What Shrodinger did was a thought experiment in order to explain the wave and then the particle collapse. He thought both the wave and particle existed in nature at the quantum level (so you're right about that).

>>You cannot have a measurement absent a conscious being to do the measuring.<<

This goes to show that you didn't watch the video. I'll stop here.

 

[james bond]

There are ways to produce macroscopic quantum systems with superposition of macroscopic things.

Can you give a couple of examples? How macroscopic are you talking about -- tennis balls?

Not true. It works just as well if a Geiger counter does the measurement. The key is complex interaction with an environment.

Thank you.

I shouldn't be so argumentative. This could go both ways.

 

[metis]

There is no multiverse experiment because there is no multiverse to work with.

Most cosmologist disagree with you on this.

Also, why are you so certain when the cosmologists are far from being certain?

 

[Polymath257]

Can you give a couple of examples? How macroscopic are you talking about -- tennis balls?

Usually not quite that big, but superconductors are inherently quantum mechanical and macroscopic superconductors can be in a superpositional state. Typically, to allow this requires very low temperatures, though.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes. Einstein thought there were hidden variables, but that was disproved by the experiment. It also showed Ervin Shrodinger was wrong, too. I won't insult these scientists by tossing Hugh Everett III into it. What a clown. If you believe him, then give up the Copenhagen interpretation. Everett didn't think Shrodinger's equation collapses and believed in the superposition as real. He was mocked and ridiculed and he is again with the new findings.

Right. Everett took the Schrodinger equation seriously and figured out what doing so lead to. And what he found is that the very mathematics of the Schrodinger equation leads to a form of multiverse where the 'splitting' into different 'universes' is actually a decomposition of the relevant Hilbert space on which the Schrodinger equation is operating.

And, this idea has had a lot of value in later developments. For example, the 'many paths' formulation of QM can be reduced to the Everett model. And, the whole notion of decoherence, which is being used in constructing quantum computers, is also based on these ideas.

Far from being mocked, they are being actively investigated and used to good effect, making testable predictions along the way.

 

[james bond]

Usually not quite that big, but superconductors are inherently quantum mechanical and macroscopic superconductors can be in a superpositional state. Typically, to allow this requires very low temperatures, though.

Okay. I've read about these, but aren't they in one quantum state already and low temperatures?

 

[james bond]

Right. Everett took the Schrodinger equation seriously and figured out what doing so lead to. And what he found is that the very mathematics of the Schrodinger equation leads to a form of multiverse where the 'splitting' into different 'universes' is actually a decomposition of the relevant Hilbert space on which the Schrodinger equation is operating.

And, this idea has had a lot of value in later developments. For example, the 'many paths' formulation of QM can be reduced to the Everett model. And, the whole notion of decoherence, which is being used in constructing quantum computers, is also based on these ideas.

Far from being mocked, they are being actively investigated and used to good effect, making testable predictions along the way.

Last point first, Everett was mocked heavily when he came up with it. I laughed out loud when he popped up in the vid. As for his ideas, weren't they more Schrodinger's? He seemed have given it more credence in 1935 from what I read.

Everett - Mocked and scorned for his many worlds theory and became a heavy drinker. Became a math and computational whiz (where he should have been imho as I was a computer scientist) for the defense industry. He basically accepted the wave function as part of our world as the superposition exists with us. How can anyone test that?

Schrodinger - Came up with the Schrodinger equation. Now, the way he incorporate humans was using a thought experiment. That was harder to discount because he had both the equation and his thought experiment that was backed up by the science experiment; I can't argue what we see with the dual particle is a wave when not observed. Thus, it could exist like a thought could exist. He was much more smart in incorporating humans than Everett who formed his theory using Schrodinger's equation.

Anyway, I think this is leading to the multidimensional theory to explain quantum mechanics. AFAIK there are only 4 dimensions, but we have not proven the 4th dimension exists although almost all think it does. In terms of creation science, the Bible states quantum physics is in the realm of the Holy Spirit and he is supposed to be the most powerful.

"By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible." Hebrews 11:3

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. ..." Genesis 1:1-31

What Does the Bible Say About Quantum Physics?

Notice God created the electromagnetic spectrum (EMS) and that provided all the energy in the universe we'll ever need. He also created space and time and started the expansion of the universe.

 

[Polymath257]

Okay. I've read about these, but aren't they in one quantum state already and low temperatures?

Low temperatures, yes, but they can be made to be in superpositions.

 

[ecco]

In terms of creation science, ...

"Creation science" is an oxymoron.

the Bible states quantum physics is in the realm of the Holy Spirit and he is supposed to be the most powerful.

Care to quote chapter and verse?

 

[ChristineM]

We have an experiment now that shows that multiverses cannot exist.

Please give a link to this experiment that can do the (currently) impossible and model what is outside our universe and (currently) unknowable.

The many worlds theory that a majority of scientists believe today is just illusion.

Majority? Are you sure? I know several cosmologists and particle phyisists and none can agree with any of the others about hypothesis of how our universe came about?.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

People who like quantum mechanics should get a kick out of this.

We have an experiment now that shows that multiverses cannot exist. The many worlds theory that a majority of scientists believe today is just illusion. It only exists when the quantum particles are measured (observed) and consciousness does not have to be present.

To put it in terms of the Shrodinger's Cat thought experiment, we cannot have the cat existing in two states at the same time or superposition. This is nature. It is either alive or dead when we observe it.

How this was shown was in 2011 when two scientists. Shan Yu and Danko Nikolic of the Max Planck Institute, Johann Wolfgang Goethe University, in their paper Annalen der Physik, showed that consciousness was not necessary and only measurement. It means through scientific measurement that the reality of one state or another exists in the natural world. For example, with Shrodinger's cat, it can either be dead or alive, but can't be both at the same time. That is just an illusion even though we can map the illusion with light particles. As per the double slit experiment, the reality exists when it is measured. What we see is just the potential probablities when things are not measured.

I think you skipped over the part of this supposedly disproves a multiverse (which is not a theory btw... it is a prediction of certain theories, like inflation - not a theory on its own)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Denial is not science. There is no multiverse experiment because there is no multiverse to work with.

No. There is no such experiment, because we can't reach beyond our space-time bubble. As such, the multiverse prediction is not testable. Kind of hard to conduct an experiment to test the untestable....

OTOH, the Bible tells us that God created only one universe and this experiment backs it up. It's the scientific method and is observable and verifiable.

The experiment you speak of doesn't back up any gods doing anything whatsoever, nore does it say anything at all about mutliverses or a single universe.

The scientist who first came up with the many worlds hypothesis is Hugh Everett III.

This the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum physics.
There's also inflation theory, which happens to predict a multi-verse. ie, if inflation theory is correct, then the multi-verse exists. But it's an untestable prediction. It makes other predictions as well which are testable in principle.