Muslim Belief on Torah

[TashaN]

What does it say there? That the land of Israel belongs to the Jews, not to Muslims, nor to Christians, nor to Buddhists, nor to Americans; but to the Jews.

End of story.

Now, if you don't believe in G-d, then we can have a debate...

If you do believe in G-d, what's there to debate?

Hi dear Deut,

[100] "O my Lord! grant me a righteous (son)!" >> (Ismael)


[101] So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.


[102] Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (the son) said: "O my father! do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one practising Patience and Constancy!"


[103] So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),


[104] We called out to him, "O Ibrahim!


[105] "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" thus indeed do We reward those who do right.

[106] For this was obviously a trial,


[107] And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:


[108] And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:


[109] "Peace and salutation to Ibrahim!"


[110] Thus indeed do We reward those who do right


[111] For he was one of Our believing Servants.

After that .....


[112] And We gave him the good news of Ishaq - a prophet - one of the Righteous.


[113] We blessed him and Ishaq: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.

(Quran 37:100-113)

 

[jewscout]

After that .....


[112] And We gave him the good news of Ishaq - a prophet - one of the Righteous.


[113] We blessed him and Ishaq: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.

(Quran 37:100-113)

ah but who are to do wrong and who right...is it equally divided between the children of the brothers or is one trait exclusive to one branch of the family?

 

[TashaN]

Does G-d contradict himself? Why would G-d, such a benivulent Being, clearly say to the Children of ISRAEL (Jacob) I give you China.

But you keep believing we just changed it to Israel. :biglaugh:

Please don't throw your own assumption, thought, corrupted Torah to what God says.

You weren't there when your garnd garnd garnd garnd garnd garnd garnd ... grandfather was there to recieve the Torah and you don't know that Torah was corrupted and you just know what you have been told so just keep with yours if you don't know what Quran says because Quran clearly tell us what the Jewish did with the Torah to fit thier own benefits.

I guess you need to visit this thread to understand what i just told you about Compromising your religion to "keep up with the times".

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26332

 

[TashaN]

ah but who are to do wrong and who right...is it equally divided between the children of the brothers or is one trait exclusive to one branch of the family?

I believe that Muslims, Christians and Jewish must share the land there and live in peace as they did before Israel come to the world to take the land for itself.

 

[TashaN]

no wonder you have so many passages that magically refer to Mr. J.

Can you please tell me who is Mr. J if you don't mind because it appeared to me that there are some mocking within the lines.

Alright, enough joking, being serious for a moment, Scott, if that's their position that the Torah is inaccurate couldn't that logic then be applied to the prophecies that Muhammod fullfilled in the Quran or from your perspective, the NT?

Even though the question was to my friend Scott but as Muslims, we don't need Torah to back up the Holy Quran but we must believe in it because God ordered us to do so.

 

[Aqualung]

It's sort of selfish to deny others the right to their holy land.

The thing that I see Binyamin is trying to impress upon our minds is that he's not denying anybody their right to their holy land, because they have no right to it.

 

[Aqualung]

Can you please tell me who is Mr. J if you don't mind because it appeared to me that there are some mocking within the lines.

Jesus.

 

[TashaN]

Interesting observations...A little insert of my own here.

I've always found it interesting that the Bible and the Torah were mistranslated in ways, that things had been lost. But I find it even more interesting after reading a translation of the Qur'an, Surah 15 verse 9. It says that the message (the Qur'an) will be protected from corruption. But the fact that I read it in english sort of suggests otherwise, doesn't it?

I mean, the main reason the Bible and Torah are not complete is because they were allowed to be translated from their native tongue, and in the translations things were lost. Can the Qur'an really be an exception then?

Hi dear jiin_caltro,

Actually, the main reason the Bible and Torah are not complete is NOT because they were allowed to be translated from their native tongue but because it have been edited so some people added to it and some took out from it too.

The Original Arabic Quran is there and you can check whether the translations are ALMOST like the original one or not but for Muslism we acknowledge ONLY the arabic one as the word of God but the translations are ONLY to make it easier for nations who can't speak arabic.

 

[TashaN]

Jesus.

I think he must be polite when he mention his master and our master Jesus "peace be upon him".

 

[jewscout]

I believe that Muslims, Christians and Jewish must share the land there and live in peace as they did before Israel come to the world to take the land for itself.

i wasn't asking about the covenant...i was asking a question about the verse you sited which states:

After that .....


[112] And We gave him the good news of Ishaq - a prophet - one of the Righteous.


[113] We blessed him and Ishaq: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.

(Quran 37:100-113)

i was asking a question in regards to line 113 when it says that "that their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls."
does this mean that the children of both brothers will be imperfect and faulter or is it specifically speaking of one brother over another?

i had no intention of making my post in regards to the right, or lack there of in the opinions of some, of the State of Israel to exist.

p.s. sorry for the bolding i couldn't get it to cut off

 

[TashaN]

i wasn't asking about the covenant...i was asking a question about the verse you sited which states:


i was asking a question in regards to line 113 when it says that "that their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls."
does this mean that the children of both brothers will be imperfect and faulter or is it specifically speaking of one brother over another?

i had no intention of making my post in regards to the right, or lack there of in the opinions of some, of the State of Israel to exist.

p.s. sorry for the bolding i couldn't get it to cut off

The verse meant that if any from the children of BOTH brothers did good so Allah will reward him/her but if they did bad so Allah will punish them because there is no special thing about the children even though thier fathers are Ismael and Ishaq.


I hope that i answered your question ..

 

[jewscout]

The verse meant that if any from the children of BOTH brothers did good so Allah will reward him/her but if they did bad so Allah will punish them because there is no special thing about the children even though thier fathers are Ismael and Ishaq.


I hope that i answered your question ..

yes thank you.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Please don't throw your own assumption, thought, corrupted Torah to what God says.

Please don't blow up, okay?

You weren't there when your garnd garnd garnd garnd garnd garnd garnd ... grandfather was there to recieve the Torah and you don't know that Torah was corrupted and you just know what you have been told so just keep with yours if you don't know what Quran says because Quran clearly tell us what the Jewish did with the Torah to fit thier own benefits.

Were you there when your Jew-hating, women beating Quran was there to receive Muhammads wonderful lessons of peace with your grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grandfather was there to receive your corruped piece of work?

You won't see me making rash and bold decisions and telling you what the Qur'an says, as in my personal opinion, I consider the lion king a better fairy tale, plus more peaceful. What I do see you doing is claiming that you do know what the Torah says, which on more then one account, I've corrected you on.

This is just a continuation of your cultures hate of anything not muslim. When in doubt, blame the Jews/Zionists. . .

I guess you need to...

Yes, I'm sure you guess a lot on pretty much everything.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Even though the question was to my friend Scott but as Muslims, we don't need Torah to back up the Holy Quran but we must believe in it because God ordered us to do so.

Yea, I mean why would we listen to something much older and more accurate when we have the new 1.10 Women-beating Quran. This is according to Sinbad1 by the way. You can look up the thread if you want.

 

[TashaN]

Please don't blow up, okay?

Were you there when your Jew-hating, women beating Quran was there to receive Muhammads wonderful lessons of peace with your grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grandfather was there to receive your corruped piece of work?

You won't see me making rash and bold decisions and telling you what the Qur'an says, as in my personal opinion, I consider the lion king a better fairy tale, plus more peaceful. What I do see you doing is claiming that you do know what the Torah says, which on more then one account, I've corrected you on.

This is just a continuation of your cultures hate of anything not muslim. When in doubt, blame the Jews/Zionists. . .

Yes, I'm sure you guess a lot on pretty much everything.

[63] And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!"

(Quran 25:63)

 

[TashaN]

yes thank you.

You are most welcome my friend

 

[wmam]

Why would G-d contradict himself?

YAH my Elohim does not contradict Himself. Now with your understanding of the Scriptures you may see what you understand to be a contradiction but not I. YAH gave the land to the Hebrews and basically stated that they would keep it forever but He would use it against them if they chose to transgress His laws. They did and He took the land from them for a time. He always gave it back to them when the appointed time came and He will do so again when the appointed time comes. It's so plain and simple a child can understand it. You disobey the Father ............ You get spanked.

Just to clearify......... What land is being fought over now? Is it all the land that was given to the Hebrews or is it Israel or Judah or what? I'm sorry but I would think that if you go into an agreement, a contract mind ya, that you agreed to do this or that and if you did then you would get this or that but somewhere down the road you decided not to do your end of the agreement, How can you rightfully say that you deserve the payment, if you will, for something you didn't work for? I would be happy with the knowledge that the One that holds the higher deed to it all is still going to give it back after how many times? I mean just how many times would you or I continue to stand by someone that continued to thumb their nose up at us?

I apologize if I offended you........... It was not my intention and hope that you didn't take it as such. I was only going to post the first sentence and let that be that. Something just came over me and pushed me into this direction and made me to feel that it all needed to be said. Please do not take what I said as I don't believe that the rightful Hebrews, Israelites and or Jews whether it be one, two or all three as one, doesn't deserve the land because that is not what I am saying and is not what was written.

Shalom

 

[Ulver]

Aha. So let's think about this for a second. What did the original Torah say?

G-d: I give the Jews.......America.

Jews: Nah, we don't like America, let's change it to....Israel.


You call yourself a Muslim.
You believe in G-d.
Do you believe that G-d gave us the Torah?
As a Muslim, you just said you do.

What does it say there? That the land of Israel belongs to the Jews, not to Muslims, nor to Christians, nor to Buddhists, nor to Americans; but to the Jews.

End of story.

Now, if you don't believe in G-d, then we can have a debate...

If you do believe in G-d, what's there to debate?

Mind you how about you not forget all about how in 60-70 A.D. your God allowed the Romans to come down and destroy Israel. So how about you keep that in mind, huh?

Also, please don't be bashing Muslims. Most Islamic empires were far kinder to Jews then most of Christian Medieval Europe was. Christians massacred Muslims and Jews in Spain. Before that, Spain had been a thriving place for both religions/cultures.

 

[Popeyesays]

Mind you how about you not forget all about how in 60-70 A.D. your God allowed the Romans to come down and destroy Israel. So how about you keep that in mind, huh?

Also, please don't be bashing Muslims. Most Islamic empires were far kinder to Jews then most of Christian Medieval Europe was. Christians massacred Muslims and Jews in Spain. Before that, Spain had been a thriving place for both religions/cultures.

Israel was also sacked by Babylon.
The greatest Islamic civilization of the Dark Ages was muslim Spain. Cordoba had paved and carpeted streets, street lights, underground sewers and a university when the Vatican was a pile of rubble left behind by the Visigoths, and Jerusalem was forbidden to all Jews who had not resided there before the coming of Islam. Paris was mud streets and a population of about 50,000. London half the people and subject to flooding everyt year, still a Saxon kingdom until 1066.

God wishes mankind to build an ever advancing civilization, and the greatest proof (outside the words of Muhammed) to the truth of Islam is the shining example to civilzation given by Islam to the Europe of the dark ages.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Deut 13:1]

Also, please don't be bashing Muslims. Most Islamic empires were far kinder to Jews then most of Christian Medieval Europe was. Christians massacred Muslims and Jews in Spain. Before that, Spain had been a thriving place for both religions/cultures.

So what changed, why the hate?