Muslims: 72 Virgins in Paradise?

[Djamila]

I don't have much to contribute to the beginning of this debate. I'm unaware of any such verse in the Koran.

I did hear, however, that the verse actually means "72 raisins" and is a metaphor to an Arab legend about a woman who made the best wine from 72 dried, dusty, horrible grapes.

What do you think about this idea?

Do Muslims get 72 virgins in Paradise? On what passage, from what book, is this based? Is it an accurate interpretation of said verse in your opinion?

 

[nutshell]

And I always wondered what happened after each of the 72 was "deflowered" if you will. Or, do they remain virgins forever?

 

[Bishka]

And what about the women? What do they get?

 

[jacquie4000]

And what about the women? What do they get?

Leftovers................. :foot:

 

[jacquie4000]

Or............A very tired man

 

[Hacker]

And what about the women? What do they get?

Hahaha, took the question right out of my mouth!:yes:

 

[nutshell]

And what about the women? What do they get?

I believe they get the equivalent in reverse.

However, I think this question goes to Mila's point that it isn't really about virgins, but is a metaphor for something else.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

I don't have much to contribute to the beginning of this debate. I'm unaware of any such verse in the Koran.

I did hear, however, that the verse actually means "72 raisins" and is a metaphor to an Arab legend about a woman who made the best wine from 72 dried, dusty, horrible grapes.

What do you think about this idea?

Well unless they're gonna marry grapes in Paradise, I'm not seeing it:
(QURAN 52: 17-20): "Verily, for those who fear Allah there will be Gardens in Paradise, filled with Delight. Enjoying in that which their Lord has bestowed on them, and the fact that their Lord saved them from the torment of the blazing Fire. The Lord will say: ‘Eat and drink with happiness because of what you used to do’. They will recline with ease on thrones arranged in ranks. And We shall marry them to Houris with wide lovely eyes."
Also,

(QURAN 56:37-40): "...We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand…."
(QURAN 78:31-34): "As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high-bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup."

Do Muslims get 72 virgins in Paradise? On what passage, from what book, is this based? Is it an accurate interpretation of said verse in your opinion?

The actual number of virgins (72) is based on a Hadith in a Sunnah of Muhammad, apparently:
"The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]."

 

[jacquie4000]

Well on the serious side here is some links to look at:
Martyr's to get 72 virgins in heaven....http://www.straightdope.com/columns/011214.html
Grapes, Virgins? Does that explain suicide bombers?http://www.straightdope.com/columns/011214.html

 

[jacquie4000]

Sorry the 2nd site is herehttp://www.commondreams.org/views04/0805-02.htm

 

[Djamila]

My direct translation Quran says:

52:17 The righteous are in paradises and bliss.
52:18 Delighted by what their Lord has granted them; and their Lord has spared them the retribution of Hell.
52:19 Eat and drink happily because of what you used to do.
52:20 They recline on arranged furnishings, and We coupled them with wonderful companions.

56:37 Perfect and without spoil.
56:38 For those on the right side.
56:39 Many from the early generations.
56:40 And many from the later generations.

78:31 As for the righteous, they will have success.
78:32 Gardens and vineyards.
78:33 And grapes that are ripe.
78:34 And a cup that is full.

 

[SoyLeche]

After 9-11 one of the hijackers went up to heaven. The first person he saw there was George Washington. Washington gave him a swift kick in the pants and started yelling at him. Soon, Thomas Jefferson came up and started doing the same thing, followed by James Maddison and a whole line of others.

The hijacker asked "what is going on? I thought there were going to be 72 virgins waiting for me in heaven."

George Washington replied - "oh, you read that wrong. It was supposed to say 72 Virginians"

(Ok, I know, I've told it before, but I like it )

 

[jacquie4000]

More in Quran............
"Those of the right hand-how happy will be those of the right hand! …Who will be honored in the Garden of Bliss; Qur'an 56:13 "A multitude of those from among the first, and a few from the latter, (will be) on couch-like thrones woven with gold and precious stones. Reclining, facing each other. Round about them will (serve) boys of perpetual (freshness), of never ending bloom, with goblets, jugs, and cups (filled) with sparkling wine. No aching of the head will they receive, nor suffer any madness, nor exhaustion. And with fruits, any that they may select: and the flesh of fowls, any they may desire. And (there will be) Hur (fair females) with big eyes, lovely and pure, beautiful ones, like unto hidden pearls, well-guarded in their shells. A reward for the deeds."Qur'an 56:33"Unending, and unforbidden, exalted beds, and maidens incomparable. We have formed them in a distinctive fashion and made them virgins, loving companions matched in age, for the sake of those of the right hand." [Another translation reads:] "On couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created them (maidens) incomparable: We have formed their maidens as a special creation, and made them to grow a new growth. We made them virgins—pure and undefiled, lovers, matched in age."

 

[jacquie4000]

If I am correct the 72 virgins is not mentioned in the Quran it is mentioned in one of the hadiths.

 

[Djamila]

"Those of the right hand-how happy will be those of the right hand! …Who will be honored in the Garden of Bliss; Qur'an 56:13

56:13 Many from the first generations.

"A multitude of those from among the first, and a few from the latter, (will be) on couch-like thrones woven with gold and precious stones. Reclining, facing each other. Round about them will (serve) boys of perpetual (freshness), of never ending bloom, with goblets, jugs, and cups (filled) with sparkling wine. No aching of the head will they receive, nor suffer any madness, nor exhaustion. And with fruits, any that they may select: and the flesh of fowls, any they may desire. And (there will be) Hur (fair females) with big eyes, lovely and pure, beautiful ones, like unto hidden pearls, well-guarded in their shells. A reward for the deeds."Qur'an 56:33

That's much more than could fit in any single verse:

56:28 In lush orchards.
56:29 And fruit-trees which are ripe.
56:30 And extended shade.
56:31 And flowing water.
56:32 And many fruits.
56:33 Neither ending; nor forbidden.
56:34 And raised furnishings.
56:35 We have planted them deeply.
56:36 And made them never previously touched.
56:37 Perfect and without spoil.
56:38 For those on the right side.
56:39 Many from the early generations.
56:40 And many from the later generations.

 

[Halcyon]

And what about the women? What do they get?

Leftovers................. :foot:

From my (very limited) understanding. The virgins are houris - special "beings" created pure/virginal in heaven. Houris can be male or female, so good women would also get a houri companion in the afterlife.

 

[jacquie4000]

Well then that is good news....I was saying earlier I don't believe 72 virgins is mentioned in the Quran anywhere. I believe it is stated in one of the hadiths by Al-Tirmdhi Died 982 CE But I have never read this hadith.

 

[Ozzie]

I don't have much to contribute to the beginning of this debate. I'm unaware of any such verse in the Koran.

I did hear, however, that the verse actually means "72 raisins" and is a metaphor to an Arab legend about a woman who made the best wine from 72 dried, dusty, horrible grapes.

What do you think about this idea?

Do Muslims get 72 virgins in Paradise? On what passage, from what book, is this based? Is it an accurate interpretation of said verse in your opinion?

I'm pretty ignorant on the origins of the 72 virgin promise. Assuming it is seen as an attractive offer (Nutshell excluded), is this part of the philosophical/religious base of polygamy in Islam?

 

[Djamila]

I'm pretty ignorant on the origins of the 72 virgin promise. Assuming it is seen as an attractive offer (Nutshell excluded), is this part of the philosophical/religious base of polygamy in Islam?

Sorry, Ozzie. I'm still trying to figure out if it's even found in any of the Quran's verses - I couldn't possible be the one to answer your question.

In terms of polygamy... it was never as common as people think it was. Bosnia had only one region where Islamic polygamy was the norm and most of the countries I've read about were much the same - a few certain tribes, a few certain regions, etc. I'm sure there's more men with several wives in Kabul, Afghanistan, than in the whole of Egypt.

Islam doesn't have the belief that polygamy is mandated or necessary, so it's quite easy to simply move away from that. In practice, the Koran kind of implies additional wives are to taken only when it's a benefit to the woman, and when the man can care for her as much as his first wife. Kind of like a social security network for medieval women, I suppose.

But it's not like polygamists sects in USA, where to get to heaven you need 40 wives, and you can pick and choose from among them when they die, playing God and deciding who can come to heaven.

 

[Random]

The Islamic paradise was discussed indepth on this thread a while back.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

My direct translation Quran says:

52:17 The righteous are in paradises and bliss.
52:18 Delighted by what their Lord has granted them; and their Lord has spared them the retribution of Hell.
52:19 Eat and drink happily because of what you used to do.
52:20 They recline on arranged furnishings, and We coupled them with wonderful companions.

56:37 Perfect and without spoil.
56:38 For those on the right side.
56:39 Many from the early generations.
56:40 And many from the later generations.

78:31 As for the righteous, they will have success.
78:32 Gardens and vineyards.
78:33 And grapes that are ripe.
78:34 And a cup that is full.

What do you mean by "direct"? Which English translation are you using?

 

[Djamila]

What do you mean by "direct"? Which English translation are you using?

It just means that someone who speaks fluent Arabic and fluent English sat down with an Arabic Koran and translated each word's literal meaning into English.

As opposed to someone who speaks Arabic and vague Turkish translating it into broken Turkish, which is then filled in by a fluent Turk, which is then sent to a Turkish-speaking professor at some Islamic school in the UK who translates it into English.

You can buy them in online stores, anywhere you like, I'm sure.

Direct or Literal are the two words to look for, direct being the most important but Literal being worthwhile as well.