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Muslims: 72 Virgins in Paradise?

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
And a bit of advise:

If it's called "The Qur'an" or "The Koran", don't buy it. If it doesn't say "The Holy Qur'an" or "The Holy Koran", I wouldn't trust it.

Also, open up the pages. If it's in English, but still uses the term Allah for God throughout, don't buy it. That means all the most controversial terms (like hur) have not even been attempted to be translated.
 
Djamila said:
It just means that someone who speaks fluent Arabic and fluent English sat down with an Arabic Koran and translated each word's literal meaning into English.

As opposed to someone who speaks Arabic and vague Turkish translating it into broken Turkish, which is then filled in by a fluent Turk, which is then sent to a Turkish-speaking professor at some Islamic school in the UK who translates it into English.

You can buy them in online stores, anywhere you like, I'm sure. :)

Direct or Literal are the two words to look for, direct being the most important but Literal being worthwhile as well.
Which English translations are you aware of that are "direct" or "literal"? I realize that there are different translations of the Quran into English but I don't know much about the differences between them.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
You just have to look at the credits and see where it was printed. Mine says by the University of Vienna.

But there are a lot of different versions of the Koran. Some are really way off.

The most common Bosnian Koran, for example, I believe the label is "Mustabegovic Translation", has almost not a single line in common with modern, direct Arabic-Bosnian translations.

For example, the first line is:

Tebe, Allaha, Gospodara svijetova, hvalimo

Which means:

You, God, Gentleman of the world, our thanks

When the Arabic Koran, directly translated into English, says:

In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Djamila said:
You just have to look at the credits and see where it was printed. Mine says by the University of Vienna.

But there are a lot of different versions of the Koran. Some are really way off.

The most common Bosnian Koran, for example, I believe the label is "Mustabegovic Translation", has almost not a single line in common with modern, direct Arabic-Bosnian translations.

For example, the first line is:

Tebe, Allaha, Gospodara svijetova, hvalimo

Which means:

You, God, Gentleman of the world, our thanks

When the Arabic Koran, directly translated into English, says:

In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
Mila, could you just tell me how good my version is please;

The first part of the first sura goes,

In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate

Praise belongs to God, the Lord of all Being,
the All-merciful, the All-compassionate,
the Master of the Day of Doom.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
Djamila said:
I don't have much to contribute to the beginning of this debate. I'm unaware of any such verse in the Koran.

I did hear, however, that the verse actually means "72 raisins" and is a metaphor to an Arab legend about a woman who made the best wine from 72 dried, dusty, horrible grapes.

What do you think about this idea?

I like the idea of 72 virgins better, I can't get it on with raisins.
 

Djamila

Bosnjakinja
Halcyon said:
Mila, could you just tell me how good my version is please;

The first part of the first sura goes,

In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate

Praise belongs to God, the Lord of all Being,
the All-merciful, the All-compassionate,
the Master of the Day of Doom.

Those particular lines seem good enough to me.

Mine says "Last Day" instead of "Day of Doom", and "the Most" instead of "the All-" - but that doesn't change their meaning.
 

Random

Well-Known Member
*Paul* said:
Is an eternity of baby making not enough?

Good grief! Only a devout Christian with a distant view of the female sex would say that.

I hope you were trying to be funny, Paul...:run:
 

gnostic

The Lost One
jmoum said:
. . . what the heck would a guy want with 72 virgins? Hell, one woman is hard enough to please, let alone 72. Are you sure they didn't mistake the word "Heaven" for "Hell"?

You would probably have 72 nagging wives. :sheep:

Or it's even worse; you would end up with 72 mothers-in-law :eek: terrorising you. :thud: Now that would be pure hell in Paradise.

No thanks. I would take my chances in hell. :biglaugh:
 

Hacker

Well-Known Member
gnostic said:
You would probably have 72 nagging wives. :sheep:

Or it's even worse; you would end with 72 mothers-in-law :eek: terrorising you. :thud: Now that would be pure hell in Paradise.

No thanks. I would take my chances in hell. :biglaugh:
There has to be a mistake or a misinterpretation, I can't see God our father permitting this as a reward.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I don't want to sound critical, but the notion that you would get 72 virgins as a reward, rather than a punnishment, seems to me far too much like an adolescent fantasy to be attributed to God.
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
The wives of paradise are not like women of the earth. They do not nag or complain or become disappointed. They are 100% free of any and all maintanance, and they only love the husband they are with. If I were a guy I'd like the idea of 72 of the hottest women I can imagine all in love with me. I don't have to do anything but be me, and they love every minute of it. No diseases no unwanted pregnancies or complicated love triangles. The time to spend with them is a non-issue since paradise is eternal. Best of all no such thing as fatigue.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Sounds like fairytales.

For a religion who tried to hide beauty of women behind the veils for decency sake and to exercise restraint, especially from lust, then them being the "hottest" women acting like sluts in Paradise for each man, sounds like as Sunstone said, "adolescent fantasy" and illogical and contradictory in Islamic teachings.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Djamila said:
I don't have much to contribute to the beginning of this debate. I'm unaware of any such verse in the Koran.

I did hear, however, that the verse actually means "72 raisins" and is a metaphor to an Arab legend about a woman who made the best wine from 72 dried, dusty, horrible grapes.

What do you think about this idea?

Do Muslims get 72 virgins in Paradise? On what passage, from what book, is this based? Is it an accurate interpretation of said verse in your opinion?
I would have to first ask the question about the state of heaven - is it spritual or material?

And then I'd like to add there is nothing miraculaous about the best wine from " dried, dusty, horrible grapes". That is the state of the grape in making the sweetest wines, a trokenbaren auslese - but sometimes it is frozen grapes for "ice wine"
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
fullyveiled muslimah said:
If I were a guy I'd like the idea of 72 of the hottest women I can imagine all in love with me.

IMHE, what most often makes a woman "the hottest I can imagine" is sexual experience, rather than a lack thereof.
 

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
Godlike said:
Good grief! Only a devout Christian with a distant view of the female sex would say that.

I hope you were trying to be funny, Paul...:run:

Don't worry, it was very tongue in cheek. :tuna:
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
I don't see it as adolescent at all. I see it as Allah giving men what they seek after in this world, only minus the negative effect. There are a whole lot of men who try to be "playas" and "pimps", and try to juggle more than one woman at a time. Some men cheat on their wives or long-term girlfriends with a woman that they really don't care much about. Even with polygamy, when a man can actually get more than one woman, it is not without it's stresses and strains. I think men would gladly have two or more women, if they could obtain them with 0%negative impact. Even a faithful and loyal man's eyes and thoughts stray to other women, even if he does not want to act on that. What if he could though? What if he could get that other woman, and not have to worry about the guilt of infidelity, losing the woman he really cares for, ruining lives, or breakng any hearts? How many men would really pass that up? I think very few.

The idea was that people while they were in the world sacrificed and abstained from doing things that they would have liked to do. Because they sought after the pleasure of their Creator, they sacrificed a little of the fun or freedom they could have had. This world is a place where we are striving to obtain the pleasure of Allah. The paradise, in return for the struggle and sacrifice made, is a place desinged specifically for what pleases us. This inevitably includes sexual pleasure, since we take much pleasure in sexual activity. The women of paradise are not the sluts of paradise, they are the wives of one man. Each man will have his own set of wives should he so desire it.


It bewilders me how picky we humans are though. We tend not to be able to see the forest for the trees. It is not enough that we will live our lives in such a way that there will never be another negative thing happening ever again. No more health problems, no illness, no bad tempers, character flaws, robberies, murders, jealousy, envy, homelessness, hunger, poverty, we will never be dissappointed, no tragedies, and no death. We will have freedom in absolutes. Something that we strive for in vain in this world. Here in this world we will never experience true satisfaction and 100% contentment. Here there is always room for improvement and room for more. The more wealth we obtain the more we spend it, and the more we want it. Getting good sex at home? Not really. One can always get freakier, kinkier, new position, toys, games, let's add a partner, let's add a room full of partners, wonder what it would feel like to.....? Getting good pay at work? Not really. There is always a better job, more pay, more benefits, more vacation time, bigger office, easier and less time consuming work.

The point I am trying to make is no matter what we come up with to entertain ourselves and to have fun with, it always gets boring after a while. Never enough games, enough parties, enough money, enough attention, enough material possessions, enough space in my house, never as many cars as I would like. We always search for that next level because we always plateau. In paradise that quality is gone. Things don't get old there, they don't go out of style.

All that is not good enough for us. We have to say oh well I don't like that part of paradise. Or why does it have to be like that, why it can't be like this? For those who believe in getting a paradise, the details aren't important. What's important is that we get there and avoid its equal opposite, hot little friend on the other end of the sprectrum.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
fullyveiled muslimah said:
I don't see it as adolescent at all. I see it as Allah giving men what they seek after in this world, only minus the negative effect. There are a whole lot of men who try to be "playas" and "pimps", and try to juggle more than one woman at a time. Some men cheat on their wives or long-term girlfriends with a woman that they really don't care much about. Even with polygamy, when a man can actually get more than one woman, it is not without it's stresses and strains. I think men would gladly have two or more women, if they could obtain them with 0%negative impact. Even a faithful and loyal man's eyes and thoughts stray to other women, even if he does not want to act on that. What if he could though? What if he could get that other woman, and not have to worry about the guilt of infidelity, losing the woman he really cares for, ruining lives, or breakng any hearts? How many men would really pass that up? I think very few.
I think the caveat might be the "virgin" part. I don't know of too many men who are in a huge hurry to have sex with a virgin. Usually if a woman is a virgin it scares the crap out of the guy because they know sex is not going to be fun for awhile. Sorry, just what I've heard from many male friends. :shrug:
 

Ozzie

Well-Known Member
Buttercup said:
I think the caveat might be the "virgin" part. I don't know of too many men who are in a huge hurry to have sex with a virgin. Usually if a woman is a virgin it scares the crap out of the guy because they know sex is not going to be fun for awhile. Sorry, just what I've heard from many male friends. :shrug:

Amen to the experienced Buttercup. In fact, I find the whole idea of being there first just so I can plant an Aussie flag trivial.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Buttercup said:
I think the caveat might be the "virgin" part. I don't know of too many men who are in a huge hurry to have sex with a virgin. Usually if a woman is a virgin it scares the crap out of the guy because they know sex is not going to be fun for awhile. Sorry, just what I've heard from many male friends. :shrug:

That's largely the reason I think the 72 virgins is an adolescent fantasy. Inexperienced adolescent males are naturally drawn to inexperienced adolescent females.
 
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