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Muslims all 101 contradictions of bible from shabbir ali has been debunked online do your research and dont parrot it to us again.

1213

Well-Known Member
And practically all of Genesis and Exodus have been shown to be wrong.
That is not true.
And you still cannot deal with the ten year difference in the dates of birth of Jesus in Luke and Matthew.
No good reason to think there is a ten year difference. And also, the contradiction in this case is with the modern "knowledge", not a contradiction in the Bible itself. I don't think you can show any contradictory in Bible itself, but I am sure you can make up own stuff that is in contradiction with the Bible.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That is not true.

Trust me it has been done. Or, if you like you could let me help you learn just a little bit of science so that you can understand how it has been done. If you insist that Genesis is true you are also calling God a liar. But if you keep yourself scientifically illiterate there is no way that you can see that.
No good reason to think there is a ten year difference. And also, the contradiction in this case is with the modern "knowledge", not a contradiction in the Bible itself. I don't think you can show any contradictory in Bible itself, but I am sure you can make up own stuff that is in contradiction with the Bible.
Yes there is. It is a pity that if you have ever read your Bible that you have not understood it.

Luke gives a clear date for the birth of Jesus. It was in 6 CE in that Gospel. Matthew has a date that is at least ten years before that. We know when Herod died. He was still king in Judea when Jesus was born according to the nativity myth in Matthew. Herod died in 4 BCE.

By the way, if you understood the Bible at all you would know why when there were Hebrew kings over Judea that there would not have been a census in that country. In fact even though Rome had taken control when they ran their census (that was why they had it by the way) there was still a rebellion against Rome due to that census.

You need a lot more than denial to refute these claims and I know from experience that Christians do not have anything.


Why do your practice biblical inerrancy. That is actually blasphemous for more than one reason.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Trust me it has been done. ...
Trust me, it is done only in the minds of some people.
Luke gives a clear date for the birth of Jesus. It was in 6 CE in that Gospel.
Please show the scripture that has "6 CE".
....We know when Herod died. He was still king in Judea when Jesus was born according to the nativity myth in Matthew. Herod died in 4 BCE.
That is what you believe.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Trust me, it is done only in the minds of some people.


You should not break the Ninth Commandment. If you are willing to learn I can show you how we know that those stories are myths. You have no scientific education so you are in no position at all to make that claim. By the way, do you trust Abraham Lincoln at all? He agrees that you are breaking the Ninth


I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him.

Abraham Lincoln
Please show the scripture that has "6 CE".

No problem.

Luke 2 2: This was the first census to take place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.

We know when Quirinius became governor of Syria. We know when the Census of Quirinius was. A day and an event were mentioned and we know when they happened. You will not find a historical source that puts that event any earlier. Do you remember that you are not a student of the Bible? Do you remember what happened to King David when he took a census? God was PO'ed by that. After that censuses were illegal in Judea. Also until the Romans took over in 6 CE Judea was not part of the Empire and its population would not have been taxed. They were a client state of Rome under Herod. That meant that they had self rule. And they were a buffer for the Empire against enemy states. Rome had quite a few of those. To attack Rome they first had to overrun an ally and that gave them time to set up a defense.

So we have the first census of Judea. We know why it was the first census.
That is what you believe.
No, it is what a I know and can confirm. You really should not make false accusations about others. Just because your own beliefs do not allow you to know does not mean that others are going to be afraid to learn.
 

Maninthemiddle

Active Member
Please show the worst contradiction in the Bible. And I mean, contradiction in the book itself, not a contradiction with what you believe.

To call it contradictions with what I believe is ignorant, this has nothing to do with what I do or do not believe, it’s about what is written, clear contradictions.​

These are a few, then we can perhaps start on the scientific mistakes in the book that is apparently the word of the creator.

The Sabbath Day​

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

The Permanence of Earth​

“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4

“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

Seeing God​

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

Human Sacrifice​

“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21

[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31

[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34

The Power of God​

“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19

Personal Injury​

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

Circumcision​

“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10

“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2

Incest​

“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22

“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17

[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12

“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16

Trusting God​

“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2

Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3

The Holy Lifestyle​

“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7

“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30

Punishing Crime​

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

Temptation​

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1

Family Relationships​

“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26

Resurrection of the Dead​

“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9

“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29

The End of the World​

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33

“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12

“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8

“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18

“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7

These words were written between 1800 and 1900 years ago and were meant to warn and prepare the first Christians for the immediate end of the world. Some words are those supposedly straight out of the mouth of the “Son of God.” The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass. No amount of prayer brought it about; nor ever so much patience and belief and sober living. The world went on, as usual, indifferent to the spoutings of yet another batch of doomsday prophets with visions of messiahs dancing in their deluded brains. The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ok, so there is really no "6 CE" in the Bible. Thank you for confirm that I was right on that.

"6 CE" is a human invention. There are no chapters or verses in the Bible either. Those are human inventions that were added beginning in 1227 CE.


We can still tell that there was at least a ten year difference between the two books. Do you really think that playing silly games helps you?
Sorry, I don't believe that, especially when you have nothing solid to support your claim.
Now you are lying. They still knew how to write history back then. They would refer to dates in terms of Roman Emperors. As to the census in Luke, that could not have happened while Herod was alive. Judea was not part of the Roman Empire then. Making that claim would be akin to saying that the US could order a census of Canada. They run their own censuses. They would have told us to pound sand. I explained this to you. Herod died in 4 BCE. If you like I could look up the year of the Emperor of Rome's year of reign at that time. That is how dates were recorded then. When he died his son Archelaus took over and ran Judea. He did a very very poor job of it. So bad that the Romans had to take over and he was so bad that the Romans were preferred to Archelaus. He was not killed. He was deposed and exiled. But once the Romans took over they had to tax the country to pay for various government costs. That was why a census was held.

So even without knowing the years we know that the accounts disagree with each other when they have a Roman census in one but not the other.
 

1213

Well-Known Member

The Sabbath Day​

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8
“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5
I don't think Paul is saying don't keep Sabbath day holy, which would be a contradiction.

The Permanence of Earth​

“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10
If earth burns, it does not necessary mean earth doesn't remain.

Seeing God​

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30
“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18
If you read the whole Genesis 32:30, you can notice that it was actually a man who fought, not the God, even if the man calls himself a god.

Human Sacrifice​

“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21
[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31
[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34
I don't think any of that tells it is ok to sacrifice humans. Also, the Leviticus speaks about "pass through the fire to Molech", which actually is not the same as saying no human sacrifices allowed.

The Power of God​

“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26
“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19
Judah could not do it. That does not necessary mean that all things are not possible with God. Maybe Lord was not with Judah when he tried to drive out the inhabitants with chariots of iron.

Personal Injury​

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25
“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39
How is aborting ones baby the same as smiting ones cheek?

Circumcision​

“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10
“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2
How would Christ profit in Genesis 17:10, if one is circumcised?

Incest​

“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22
“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17
[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12
“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16
Maybe it was not a problem, if she was only half sister? Or maybe it became a problem only later after the Genesis time.

Trusting God​

“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2
Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3
Did Job not obtain favor of the Lord? I think he did, if you read the whole book. And, I think it is wrong to call it a bet, Bible is not speaking of any bet.

The Holy Lifestyle​

“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7
“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30
I don't see any contradiction in that, because I think there are in different situations.

Punishing Crime​

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20
“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5
Nicely cut out the important part, which makes it not contradictory.

...of those who hate me,
Exodus 20:5

Temptation​

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13
“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1
Better translation says "tested" in Genesis 22:1, which is not the same as tempted.

Family Relationships​

“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12
“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26
Why do you think honor and hate are the opposites?

Resurrection of the Dead​

“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9
“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29
It is possible that Job didn't know everything. He is speaking of what he knows. It is not a contradiction in the Bible to show, if some have had wrong ideas. Also, no one comes from there on their own, which is why it can be seen that Job is correct.

The End of the World​

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28
I think it is good to notice this came true in the following:

After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. Behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.
Matt. 17:1-3
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33
I think Jesus is speaking of the generation that sees the things, because Jesus tells he doesn't know when the end of the world comes.

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36
...The world did not end 1800 or 1900 years ago. All that generation passed away without any of the things foretold coming to pass.
I think many, if not all the things Jesus said will happen, happened. For example the temple was destroyed.
...The world, by surviving, makes the above passages contradictions.
Even if so, I asked one contradiction in the Bible, and I don't think you managed to give even one real contradiction. But, thank you for your attempt. I can believe there are contradictions with what you understand and Bible, but it is not really a contradiction in the Bible.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...They would refer to dates in terms of Roman Emperors. As to the census in Luke, that could not have happened while Herod was alive.
You said that at that time they were "a client state of Rome under Herod". Why do you think the census would not happen in Roman client state?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You said that at that time they were "a client state of Rome under Herod". Why do you think the census would not happen in Roman client state?
You have that backwards. That they were a client state, that means that they were independently ruled, why would there be a census? I even gave you an example. Do you think that Canada can be ordered by the US to hold a census?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
And Bible gives those numbers? I don't think so. It is possible that those dates are not correct.
What about the fact that every Herod was named Herod. Antipas was one of them. Herod Archelaus (Ancient Greek: Ἡρῴδης Ἀρχέλαος, Hērōidēs Archelaos; 23 BC – c. AD 18) was the ethnarch[1][2] of Samaria, Judea, and Idumea, including the cities Caesarea and Jaffa, for nine years[3] (c. 4 BC to AD 6 - Wikipedia
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
What about the fact that every Herod was named Herod. Antipas was one of them. Herod Archelaus (Ancient Greek: Ἡρῴδης Ἀρχέλαος, Hērōidēs Archelaos; 23 BC – c. AD 18) was the ethnarch[1][2] of Samaria, Judea, and Idumea, including the cities Caesarea and Jaffa, for nine years[3] (c. 4 BC to AD 6 - Wikipedia
They were not. You showed that yourself. Herod the Great was just Herod. His three sons would have there given names as part of their names. I do believe the only exception was in John, and there you can tell which son by the context.
 

Maninthemiddle

Active Member
I don't think Paul is saying don't keep Sabbath day holy, which would be a contradiction.

If earth burns, it does not necessary mean earth doesn't remain.

If you read the whole Genesis 32:30, you can notice that it was actually a man who fought, not the God, even if the man calls himself a god.

I don't think any of that tells it is ok to sacrifice humans. Also, the Leviticus speaks about "pass through the fire to Molech", which actually is not the same as saying no human sacrifices allowed.

Judah could not do it. That does not necessary mean that all things are not possible with God. Maybe Lord was not with Judah when he tried to drive out the inhabitants with chariots of iron.

How is aborting ones baby the same as smiting ones cheek?

How would Christ profit in Genesis 17:10, if one is circumcised?

Maybe it was not a problem, if she was only half sister? Or maybe it became a problem only later after the Genesis time.

Did Job not obtain favor of the Lord? I think he did, if you read the whole book. And, I think it is wrong to call it a bet, Bible is not speaking of any bet.

I don't see any contradiction in that, because I think there are in different situations.

Nicely cut out the important part, which makes it not contradictory.

...of those who hate me,
Exodus 20:5

Better translation says "tested" in Genesis 22:1, which is not the same as tempted.

Why do you think honor and hate are the opposites?

It is possible that Job didn't know everything. He is speaking of what he knows. It is not a contradiction in the Bible to show, if some have had wrong ideas. Also, no one comes from there on their own, which is why it can be seen that Job is correct.

I think it is good to notice this came true in the following:

After six days, Jesus took with him Peter, James, and John his brother, and brought them up into a high mountain by themselves. He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as the light. Behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them talking with him.
Matt. 17:1-3

I think Jesus is speaking of the generation that sees the things, because Jesus tells he doesn't know when the end of the world comes.

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36

I think many, if not all the things Jesus said will happen, happened. For example the temple was destroyed.

Even if so, I asked one contradiction in the Bible, and I don't think you managed to give even one real contradiction. But, thank you for your attempt. I can believe there are contradictions with what you understand and Bible, but it is not really a contradiction in the Bible.
You may not think they are but despite your pathetic explanations on each they are in fact clear contradictions.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
You have that backwards. That they were a client state, that means that they were independently ruled, why would there be a census? I even gave you an example. Do you think that Canada can be ordered by the US to hold a census?
How can you say a client state is independent?`I think it is contradictory to call an client state independent.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Except it was not said that the client state was independent.
It was said that the client state was independently ruled.
I don't see any meaningful difference. If a state is a client state, there is some foreign state ruling it.

In the field of international relations, a client state, is a state that is economically, politically, and militarily subordinated to a more powerful controlling state... ...Rome sometimes created client states by making the leaders of that state subservient, having to provide tribute and soldiers....
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
How can you say a client state is independent?`I think it is contradictory to call an client state independent.
You did not listen now did you? You were corrected already by someone else.

And no, a client state still has its own ruler, it does not pay tax, and it has its own laws. Rome would not have any reason for a census that went against Judea's laws. It was not until ten years after Herod's death when the rule of Herod's son Archelaus was so bad that Rome had to step in. They deposed Archelaus in 6 CE and put their own ruler, Quirinius, in to rule over Judea. At that point they did have to tax Judea since it was now part of the Roman Empire.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Muslims all the 101 contradictions so called, in bible from shabbir ali has been debunked
The two fates of Judas. According to Matthew Judas returned the silver but according to Acts he purchased a field with it. Also falling headlong is not the same as death by hanging.


Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Acts 1:18


And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Matthew 27:5
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
=
So, you think Wikipedia is wrong, client state didn't have to provide tribute and soldiers?

I think they could have had, for example to know how many soldiers they could get and how much tribute they could get.
No, you merely misread Wikipedia. Reread it. That applies to before it became an empire. And once again, using Wikipedia as a source censuses were illegal in Judea until Quirinius took over. You forgot that his census caused a minor revolt due to that law.


Herod I (Herod the Great, c. 72 – c. 4 BCE), was a Roman client king whose territory included Judea. Upon his death, his kingdom was divided into three, each section ruled by one of his sons. In 6 CE, Emperor Augustus deposed Herod Archelaus, who had ruled the largest section, and converted his territory into the Roman province of Judaea.

In order to install an ad valorem property tax in the new province, Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, the legate (governor) of the province of Roman Syria starting in 6 CE,[1] was assigned to carry out a census in Judaea. This would record the names of the owners of taxable property, along with its value, for which they would be taxed.[2][3]

The census triggered a revolt of Jewish extremists (called Zealots) led by Judas of Galilee.[4] (Galilee itself was a separate territory under the rule of Herod Antipas.) Judas seems to have found the census objectionable because it ran counter to a biblical injunction (the traditional Jewish reading of Exodus 30:12) and because it would lead to taxes paid in heathen coins bearing an image of the emperor.[5]
 
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