Muslims: Can God Manifest Himself on Earth?

[InvestigateTruth]

Hai man,
After reading your previous post and the post number 25, I am very sorry to say that your knowledge of Islam is ZERO.
I guess you read the translations of Quraan and Hadith. I would like to request you to read Quraan in its own language that's Arabic. Then you can understand them better In Sha Allah.

Hi My friend, and welcome back,

In fact I read the Arabic Quran, as well as various trasnlation and choose the one that is more accurate. But I am curious which verse or hadith translation that I quoted was not correct. Perhaps you should explain.

I am aware Allah is called as light and merciful and even Prophet Mohammed(s.a.w.s) is called as light and merciful. It means that the Allah is the light of Knowledge to the people and so is the Mohammed(s.a.w.s). How are these verses a comparing Allah with His own creation?

They are comparable in a sense that, both are called light. That means they are similar.

Quraan says in 24:35 that Allah is the light of Heaven and the earth. And one of Prophet(s.a.w.s) names is Siraj meaning light. Meaning Prophet Mohammed(s.a.w.s) is the light for the people. That does not mean literal light.

Off course it does not mean literal.

if you still say, you were talking about some other verses in Quraan not which I mentioned. Please give the quote about which you were talking so that I can answer you better.

You did good. My intention was to tell you, God manifest His knowledge. That is how God would Manifest Himself, as the Hadith in OP says. Allah speaks, they cannot recognize Him.
That just means, His knowledge and words are manifested through His Promised Ones. That is why they cannot recognize Him. Otherwise why they should say, "We stay here until Our Lord comes?"

Oh come on! Please don't translate the Quraan and Hadiths as your wish man. The translations or the explanations of Quraan and Hadith which I gave is all from authentic scholors who are trusted by 95% of Muslims.

I didn't translate anything myself. If you feel there is a problem in translation, you should bring the correct translation, and explain why it was not correct.
Perhaps you should be a bit more specific, so I know what you are saying.

Go to any Muslim scholors, whether he may be Sunni, Ahl-e-Hadith, Sufi or any other scholor who believe that Mohammed(s.a.w.s) is the last and final messenger of Allah

I know that's what they tell you, but I am afraid to tell you, they are mistaken!

Quran says otherwise:

"O children of Adam! there shall come to you Apostles from among yourselves, rehearsing my signs to you; and whoso shall fear God and do good works, no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they be put to grief." 7:35


Please note that, we should trust Quran, the word of God. Putting our trust in the Scholars is Shirk!

Moreover, people of the past gone astray, because they put their trust in their scholars instead of God.

The Prophet said:

Hadith - Bukhari and Muslim, Narrated Abu Sa'id, r.a.

The Prophet SAAWS said, "Surely, you will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, in everything as one arrow resembles another, (i.e. just like them), so much so that even if they entered a hole of a sand-lizard, you would enter it."

They said, "O Allaah’s Messenger! Do you mean to say that we will follow the Jews and the Christians?"

He SAAWS replied, "Whom else?" (By meaning the Jew and Christians)
Muttaqun OnLine - Bida: According to Quran and Sunnah

Moreover The Apostle of God said :

`There will come a time for my people when there will remain nothing of the Qur'an except its outward form and nothing of Islam except its name and they will call themselves by this name even though they are the people furthest from it. The mosques will be full of people but they will be empty of right guidance. The religious leaders (Fuqaha) of that day will be the most evil religious leaders under the heavens; sedition and dissension will go out from them and to them will it return.' .."

Ibn Babuya, Thawab ul-A'mal .

Specially it is noteworthy what the Prophet said regarding Fuqaha (Muslim Religious Leaders) in our time!

My intention from saying these Hadithes is to remind ourselves of the Words of the Prophet and why we should trust only God, and not scholars or religious leaders.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

.....Do you say that all this description is wrong??

It is not wrong. It is correct, but it requires 'Taweel'

I think we should learn a lesson from the mistakes of the people of the past.


If you investigate Jewish Traditions, and Torah, there are signs given for Messiah.Theses signs are:

"The Messiah will arise out of an unknown city. He shall sit upon the throne of David, and behold, He shall come with a sword of steel, and with a sceptre of iron shall He rule! He shall fulfill the law of the Prophets, He shall conquer the East and the West, and shall glorify His chosen people the Jews. He shall bring with Him a reign of peace, during which even the animals shall cease to be at enmity with man. For behold the wolf and the lamb shall drink from the same spring, and the lion and the doe shall lie down in the same pasture, the serpent and the mouse shall share the same nest, and all God’s creatures shall be at rest’."

According to the Jews, Jesus the Christ fulfilled none of these conditions. Because:

"He came from Nazareth, no unknown place. He carried no sword in His hand, nor even a stick. He did not sit upon the Throne of David, He was a poor man. He reformed the Law of Moses, and broke the Sabbath Day. He did not conquer the East and the West, but was Himself subject to the Roman Law. He did not exalt the Jews, but taught equality and brotherhood, and rebuked the Scribes and Pharisees. He brought in no reign of peace, for during His lifetime injustice and cruelty reached such a height that even He Himself fell a victim to it...."


Why the Jews did not think Jesus fulfilled these prophecies? Because, they interpreted these signs literally and "outwardly" (similar to our Muslim friends!)


But Jesus did fulfill these Prophecies, in a spiritual sense:


"Although He came from Nazareth, which was a known place, He also came from Heaven. His body was born of Mary, but His Spirit came from Heaven [an unknown place]. The sword He carried was the sword of His tongue, with which He divided the good from the evil, the true from the false, the faithful from the unfaithful, and the light from the darkness. His Word was indeed a sharp sword! The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting. He exalted those Jews who recognized Him. They were men and women of humble birth, but contact with Him made them great and gave them everlasting dignity. The animals who were to live with one another signified the different sects and races, who, once having been at war, were now to dwell in love and charity, drinking together the water of life from Christ the Eternal Spring.
Thus, all the spiritual prophecies concerning the coming of Christ were fulfilled, but the Jews shut their eyes that they should not see, and their ears that they should not hear, and the Divine Reality of Christ passed through their midst unheard, unloved and unrecognized.
It is easy to read the Holy Scriptures, but it is only with a clean heart and a pure mind that one may understand their true meaning. Let us ask God’s help to enable us to understand the Holy Books. Let us pray for eyes to see and ears to hear, and for hearts that long for peace."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 54-57

 

[InvestigateTruth]

My sincere advice brother, just forget all the knowledge you have about Islam and your religion, take time to learn Arabic as a language. Then read all the Quraan and all the authentic Hadiths in Arabic. Only then you will come to know the reality of Islam.
I will give you an example.
If you wear a black spectacles, the world will appear black to you. If you wear red spectacles, the world will appear red to you. To know the actual appearance of world you have to see it with your naked eyes.
In the same ways, different people translate Quran and Hadith in different ways and when you read all those translations you will understand in some other different way. Therefore, to understand Quraan in correct way, learn Arabic and read Quraan.
That is the reason Quraan is called as miracle of miracles.

My Friend, there are many Arab Speaking Muslims, then why are they not in agreement with each other? Are they not reading Arabic Quran and Hadithes? Then why there are so many sects in Islam?

The Prophet said:

"My people will be divided into 73 sects ... Everyone will go to hell, except one ... the religion which is professed by me and my companions."
(Mishkat Vol. I Chapter 6:2)

 

[DawudTalut]

Can God Manifest Himself on Earth?

If No, how do you reconcile this verse and Hadith:

"He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord." 13:2

And in Hadith:

"O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He replied, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the full moon on a clear (not cloudy) night?" They replied, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" He said, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the sun when there are no clouds?" They replied in the negative. He said, "You will see Allah (your Lord) in the same way. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be gathered and He will order the people to follow what they used to worship. So some of them will follow the sun, some will follow the moon, and some will follow other deities; and only this nation (Muslims) will be left with its hypocrites. Allah will come to them and say, 'I am Your Lord.' They will say, 'We shall stay in this place till our Lord comes to us and when our Lord will come, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to them again and say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say, 'You are our Lord.' Allah will call them, and As-Sirat (a bridge) will be laid across Hell and I (Muhammad) shall be the first amongst the Apostles to cross it with my followers. Nobody except the Apostles will then be able to speak and they will be saying then, 'O Allah! Save us. O Allah Save us.'"-Sahih Bukhari 1:770


If Yes, How do you reconcile with this verse:

"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things." 16:103

Peace be on you....
1== Please note the above reference should be ( 6:103 )


2== "And you neglect the Hereafter.
Some faces on that will be bright,
Looking (eagerly) towards their Lord."
(Holy Quran, Chapter 75 : verse 22 to 24)
https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=2725&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2


3=

[6:101] And they hold the Jinn to be partners with Allah, although He created them; and they falsely ascribe to Him sons and daughters without any knowledge. Holy is He and exalted far above what they attribute to Him!

[6:102] The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a son when He has no consort, and when He has created everything and has knowledge of all things?

[6:103] Such is Allah, your Lord. There is no God but He, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He is Guardian over everything.

[6:104] Eyes cannot reach Him but He reaches the eyes. And He is the Incomprehensible, the All-Aware.

[6:105] Proofs have indeed come to you from your Lord; so whoever sees, it is for his own good; and whoever becomes blind, it is to his own harm. And I am not a guardian over you.

Source: https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse:&ch=6&verse=101

The above verses collectively mentions that matters in this physical world are being talked. God is not physical, thus He is not seen physically. In the Hereafter He will seen with spiritual eyes and will meet His servants.

 

[anshu]

Hi My friend, and welcome back,

Hai friend and thank you for welcoming me. In this discussion, I forgot to wish you about Eid-ul-Fitr. Eid-ul-Fitr Kareem my dear friend to you and your family.

In fact I read the Arabic Quran, as well as various trasnlation and choose the one that is more accurate. But I am curious which verse or hadith translation that I quoted was not correct. Perhaps you should explain.

My friend, I am glad that you read Arabic Quraan. But yet, you didnt read it with Arabic understanding. My advice was please dont depend upon any of the translations. I said please learn Arabic as a language and then read Quraan in Arabic. It is then you can understand Quraan and Hadiths the best.
You said you chose the more accurate translation of Quraan. How do you know that which translation is more accurate when you dont know Arabic.

They are comparable in a sense that, both are called light. That means they are similar.

Okay, now here you are applying the basic mathematical formula, I guess, which is if A=B and B=c then A=C.[Allah is said as light and Mohammed(s.a.w.s) is said as light then Allah and Mohammed(s.a.w.s) are comparable]
If that is the case, Prophet Mohammed(s.a.w.s) had two hands, two legs, one body and one head. That is what exactly you and I have. You and I also have two hands, two legs, one body and one head. Does that make you and me equal to Prophet Mohammed(s.a.w.s)[Allah forbids]??
Sometimes some sort of logics will be applicable only to few situations. Dont apply the same logic everywhere. It may give wrong results.

Off course it does not mean literal.

I agree.

You did good. My intention was to tell you, God manifest His knowledge. That is how God would Manifest Himself, as the Hadith in OP says. Allah speaks, they cannot recognize Him.
That just means, His knowledge and words are manifested through His Promised Ones. That is why they cannot recognize Him. Otherwise why they should say, "We stay here until Our Lord comes?"

My dear friend, the Hadith clearly says: "Allah will come to them and say". If that Hadith speaks about Allah's Knowledge, why would it say Allah will come?

I didn't translate anything myself. If you feel there is a problem in translation, you should bring the correct translation, and explain why it was not correct.
Perhaps you should be a bit more specific, so I know what you are saying.

Okay, I agree you didnt translate it by yourself. But that is what i have been saying dont depend upon others translations. Learn Arabic, read Quraan and know the meanings.
I just want to say your tanslations might be correct but your interpretations are wrong. And if you ask me to specify, I would just give the example of As-Sirat. Even after me giving all the description about the bridge, you still misinterpret it.

I know that's what they tell you, but I am afraid to tell you, they are mistaken!

Quran says otherwise:

"O children of Adam! there shall come to you Apostles from among yourselves, rehearsing my signs to you; and whoso shall fear God and do good works, no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they be put to grief." 7:35


Please note that, we should trust Quran, the word of God. Putting our trust in the Scholars is Shirk!

Moreover, people of the past gone astray, because they put their trust in their scholars instead of God.

The Prophet said:

Hadith - Bukhari and Muslim, Narrated Abu Sa'id, r.a.

The Prophet SAAWS said, "Surely, you will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, in everything as one arrow resembles another, (i.e. just like them), so much so that even if they entered a hole of a sand-lizard, you would enter it."

They said, "O Allaah’s Messenger! Do you mean to say that we will follow the Jews and the Christians?"

He SAAWS replied, "Whom else?" (By meaning the Jew and Christians)

My friend, that is exactly what I have been saying from the starting of my last post. I never said trust scholors alone. In fact, Allah says, Learn Quran by yourself, if you cant understand, refer to Hadiths about the verses, still if you cant understand, go to a learned person.
And here learned person means learned person literally. who have maximum knowledge of Quran and Hadith.

Moreover The Apostle of God said :

`There will come a time for my people when there will remain nothing of the Qur'an except its outward form and nothing of Islam except its name and they will call themselves by this name even though they are the people furthest from it. The mosques will be full of people but they will be empty of right guidance. The religious leaders (Fuqaha) of that day will be the most evil religious leaders under the heavens; sedition and dissension will go out from them and to them will it return.' .."

Ibn Babuya, Thawab ul-A'mal .

Specially it is noteworthy what the Prophet said regarding Fuqaha (Muslim Religious Leaders) in our time!

I agree that Prophet was speaking about the scholors of our time. That does not mean all the scholors. I know there are many scholors who teach wrong like going to "dargah", etc. Prophet was speaking about those scholors not all.

My intention from saying these Hadithes is to remind ourselves of the Words of the Prophet and why we should trust only God, and not scholars or religious leaders.

I again say that we should read and understand Quraan and Hadith and trust Allah. If we cant understand any part or any verse then we can go to some learned person.

 

[anshu]

It is not wrong. It is correct, but it requires 'Taweel'

I think we should learn a lesson from the mistakes of the people of the past.


If you investigate Jewish Traditions, and Torah, there are signs given for Messiah.Theses signs are:

"The Messiah will arise out of an unknown city. He shall sit upon the throne of David, and behold, He shall come with a sword of steel, and with a sceptre of iron shall He rule! He shall fulfill the law of the Prophets, He shall conquer the East and the West, and shall glorify His chosen people the Jews. He shall bring with Him a reign of peace, during which even the animals shall cease to be at enmity with man. For behold the wolf and the lamb shall drink from the same spring, and the lion and the doe shall lie down in the same pasture, the serpent and the mouse shall share the same nest, and all God’s creatures shall be at rest’."

According to the Jews, Jesus the Christ fulfilled none of these conditions. Because:

"He came from Nazareth, no unknown place. He carried no sword in His hand, nor even a stick. He did not sit upon the Throne of David, He was a poor man. He reformed the Law of Moses, and broke the Sabbath Day. He did not conquer the East and the West, but was Himself subject to the Roman Law. He did not exalt the Jews, but taught equality and brotherhood, and rebuked the Scribes and Pharisees. He brought in no reign of peace, for during His lifetime injustice and cruelty reached such a height that even He Himself fell a victim to it...."


Why the Jews did not think Jesus fulfilled these prophecies? Because, they interpreted these signs literally and "outwardly" (similar to our Muslim friends!)


But Jesus did fulfill these Prophecies, in a spiritual sense:


"Although He came from Nazareth, which was a known place, He also came from Heaven. His body was born of Mary, but His Spirit came from Heaven [an unknown place]. The sword He carried was the sword of His tongue, with which He divided the good from the evil, the true from the false, the faithful from the unfaithful, and the light from the darkness. His Word was indeed a sharp sword! The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting. He exalted those Jews who recognized Him. They were men and women of humble birth, but contact with Him made them great and gave them everlasting dignity. The animals who were to live with one another signified the different sects and races, who, once having been at war, were now to dwell in love and charity, drinking together the water of life from Christ the Eternal Spring.
Thus, all the spiritual prophecies concerning the coming of Christ were fulfilled, but the Jews shut their eyes that they should not see, and their ears that they should not hear, and the Divine Reality of Christ passed through their midst unheard, unloved and unrecognized.
It is easy to read the Holy Scriptures, but it is only with a clean heart and a pure mind that one may understand their true meaning. Let us ask God’s help to enable us to understand the Holy Books. Let us pray for eyes to see and ears to hear, and for hearts that long for peace."

I already said in one of my previous posts that we should check the context to know which verse is literal and which verse is not. We cannot blindly say that all the verses are meant to be in the literal sense, neither we can say that all verses are not meant to be in the literal sense.

 

[anshu]

My Friend, there are many Arab Speaking Muslims, then why are they not in agreement with each other? Are they not reading Arabic Quran and Hadithes? Then why there are so many sects in Islam?

The Prophet said:

"My people will be divided into 73 sects ... Everyone will go to hell, except one ... the religion which is professed by me and my companions."
(Mishkat Vol. I Chapter 6:2)

My friend, for your kind information, let me tell you that Islam has no sects. It is Muslims who have sects. In Islam having sects is haraam(prohibited). Islam believes in Unity. Dividing is prohibited.
Regarding the formed sects among Muslims, I would only say it is so unfortunate that Muslims have sects.:sad4: Allah has taken away His Hidayah from these people. I would just pray to Allah to give these people Hidaya so that they return to right path.

I am sorry if I am hurting your emotions or saying something wrong. Even you write your religion as Baha'i which I think is one of the sects of Muslims. Please know the importance of unity in Islam and return to the write path and say yourself as Muslim not as Baha'i.
I again ask an apology if I hurt your feelings.:sorry1:

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Peace be on you....
1== Please note the above reference should be ( 6:103 )

Hi DawudTalut and Yes, I know, but I cannot correct the typo.

2== "And you neglect the Hereafter.
Some faces on that will be bright,
Looking (eagerly) towards their Lord."
(Holy Quran, Chapter 75 : verse 22 to 24)
https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=2725&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2


3=

Source: https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse:&ch=6&verse=101

The above verses collectively mentions that matters in this physical world are being talked. God is not physical, thus He is not seen physically. In the Hereafter He will seen with spiritual eyes and will meet His servants.

There are two concepts in Quran. One is the concept of Life After Death. The Other is the Concept of Day of Resurrection (Judgement)

The Life After death starts immidiately after death in the spiritual world of God.
There are verses that those who died went to paradise.
Those who die are asked for their actions:

"He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned." Quran 21:23



But the Day of Resurrection has nothing to do with the life after death, as Quran says:

‘On that day shall neither man nor spirit be asked of his Sin’
ar-Rahman 55:39


You know why? Because Judgement Day or Resurrection Day is a Day that Messengers of God come to bring new guidance to raise the Spiritually Dead and sinners to the life of Belief and righteousness. They Judge between differences among various sects and followers of other religions.
In our view this was already fulfilled about 160 years ago.
Even according to Quran day of Judgement was to come in 1000 years. Which happend perfectly in its time. (I Quote the verse upon request)

 

[farouk]

Peace and Salaams to all.
The question can Allah manifest himself on Earth?
This is a good question for those who which to attain knowledge after all knowledge is a cure for ignorance.
Investigate Truth
In order to answer your simple question can you please reveal to us the entire story of Hazrat Musa (a.s) meeting with Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala on mount Tur.
Note this incident or meeting will reveal one of Allah Subhana wa ta'ala true concepts.
Investigate Truth use only the Quraan and authentic hadith as your guide to this incident.Note any other book you will use will mearly give you a bearing knock(state of confusion).
Hoping to hear from you.
Peace and Salaams.
Farouk

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Peace and Salaams to all.
The question can Allah manifest himself on Earth?
This is a good question for those who which to attain knowledge after all knowledge is a cure for ignorance.
Investigate Truth
In order to answer your simple question can you please reveal to us the entire story of Hazrat Musa (a.s) meeting with Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala on mount Tur.
Note this incident or meeting will reveal one of Allah Subhana wa ta'ala true concepts.
Investigate Truth use only the Quraan and authentic hadith as your guide to this incident.Note any other book you will use will mearly give you a bearing knock(state of confusion).
Hoping to hear from you.
Peace and Salaams.
Farouk

farouk, Salaam and peace to you too!

You mentioned a very good point regarding Moses, and that God spoke to Him directly.
But now this would raise some other questions:

1) why God spoke to Muhammad through an Angel, but to Moses directly? (and Yet to Jesus through the Holy Spirit?)
2) If God could directly appear on earth, why He sent Messengers and Prophets? WHy He did not come among people and directly talk with them and reveal to them His Laws directly?

If you can address these questions with a logical explaination, that would be a good start to continue.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

My friend, for your kind information, let me tell you that Islam has no sects. It is Muslims who have sects. In Islam having sects is haraam(prohibited). Islam believes in Unity. Dividing is prohibited.
Regarding the formed sects among Muslims, I would only say it is so unfortunate that Muslims have sects.:sad4: Allah has taken away His Hidayah from these people. I would just pray to Allah to give these people Hidaya so that they return to right path.

Hi Anshu,

Yes, it is unfortunate that Islam like Previous religions is divided into so many sects, as the Prophet had fortold.
But as Quran says, every people have a Term:

"To every [Ummah] people is a term appointed: when their term is reached, not an hour can they cause delay, nor (an hour) can they advance (it in anticipation)." Quran 7:34

So, the Ummah (People) of Muhammad had a Term. The Prophet said:

The Prophet said, “If my (Ummah) Community keeps on the right, it is going to enjoy an age of one day, and if it becomes corrupt, it will have an age of half a day.” [Al-Munawī cites it in Fayd al-Qadīr from Shaykh Muhyī al-Dīn Ibn ‘Arabī.]


"And one day according to Allah’s estimation is 1,000 years according to yours. "(Quran 22:47)


So, According to these verses and Traditions, the term for people of Muhammad is passed.

The Prophet Also said:

The Messenger of God said: "At the end of the time of my ummah, the Mahdi will appear. God will grant him rain, the earth will bring forth its fruits, he will give a lot of money, cattle will increase and the ummah will become great. He will rule for seven or eight years."
Mahdi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



But we should not be upset, because God does not leave us without guidance. He had already said:

“Lo! Ye are they, who are called to expend for the Cause of God: and some of you are niggards (stingy) but whoso is niggardly shall be niggard only to his own loss, for God is the rich and ye are the poor: and if ye turn back, he will change you for another people, and they shall not be your like!”​

Muhammad 47:38

Muhammad was asked who were the people He referred to as “another people”, who were to replace the Arabs? One of His famous followers, Salman Farsi, a Persian, was sitting near Him. Muhammad patted the legs of Salman and said: “He and his people” and He continued: “By the True One, in Whose hands is My life, if the Faith of God should be suspended in the Pleiades, surely men from Persia shall reach it.” (This tradition is accepted by Sunnis and Shiites and is included by Nasafi in his book, Vol 4, page 169, as well as by Muhammad Farid Vajdi, in his book, third edition, page 676)​

Also Here:

The Life of Imam Abu Hanifah


Therefore, Once the term of a people is passed, He sends His new Messengers to guide humanity again, as He sent the Bab and Baha'u'llah, the Two Promised One.

I am sorry if I am hurting your emotions or saying something wrong. Even you write your religion as Baha'i which I think is one of the sects of Muslims. Please know the importance of unity in Islam and return to the write path and say yourself as Muslim not as Baha'i.
I again ask an apology if I hurt your feelings.:sorry1:

We need to understand the difference between sects and Religion.
For example, the Jews had sects, but all those sects agreed on one thing. That things was, their religion is the last one, and their Book the last. When Jesus came, He revealed a New Book. Therefore Jesus who claimed to be MEssiah, established Religion, not a sect, eventhough He was born among Jews.
Likewise, In Islam, there are many sects. When the Bab and Baha'u'llah appeared, They revealed New Books from God, and establish Religion, not sect.
The sects of Islam are those who believe in finality of the Revelation of Quran.
Although according to the following verses, Quran cannot be the last Book of God:

"Apostles truly have we already sent before thee, and wives and offspring have we given them. Yet no apostle had come with miracles unless by the leave of God. To each age its Book."
ar-Ra`d 13:38

So, as the verse says, Quran was for its own Age.


"And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of God be exhausted (in the writing): for God is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom."
Luqman 31:27

 

[anshu]

farouk, Salaam and peace to you too!

You mentioned a very good point regarding Moses, and that God spoke to Him directly.
But now this would raise some other questions:

1) why God spoke to Muhammad through an Angel, but to Moses directly? (and Yet to Jesus through the Holy Spirit?)
2) If God could directly appear on earth, why He sent Messengers and Prophets? WHy He did not come among people and directly talk with them and reveal to them His Laws directly?

If you can address these questions with a logical explaination, that would be a good start to continue.

Hai friend,
Sorry to interrupt you two guys in your discussion(you and Farouk).
Allah never directly appear on the earth. Even at the time of Moses(PBUH), Allah did not appear directly. Moses(PBUH) could talk to Allah directly not see Allah or Allah appearing on Earth.
Once Moses(PBUH) urged Allah to come down to earth, then Allah just kept His toe on the earth. At that time a huge earthquake came and a huge noise and a heavy amount of light came on to earth.
The sound, light and quake was so heavy that Moses(PBUH) could not bear and got faint.

 

[farouk]

Investigate Truth
Peace and salaam.
Note all i intend doing was to increase your knowledge in Islam due to your ignorance.Taken note of your avoidance in my simple question of revealing the story of Hazrat Musa(a.s) meeting with Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala on mount tur.You either ignorant of this meeting or lazy in revealing to us this incident.Let me enlighten you in just a few words.
The Noble Quraan 7:143 Surat Al-'A`rāf (The Heights)

Yusuf Ali
When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

Take a simple lesson from the above verse.Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala mearly cast his shadow over the mount and it turned into dust and Hazrat Musa (a.s) lost his senses.People will only be able to see Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala in Jannah and non may do so in this World.
The ff verse reconfirms the above.
The Noble Quraan 6:103 Surat Al-'An`ām ​

Sahih International

"Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted".
Lesson from the above verses is one of Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala concepts.Now if any one and i mean any one that claim that he is Allah on earth then we,who have true deen in our hearts,will reject his claims.Keep in mind that Dajal with all his God given talents will definately test the true believers by claiming Godship.Investigate Truth if your belief is that Allah can manifest himself on earth then be very careful of Dajal.
Here is something that will be of interest to you.
Hazrat Abu Moosa (R.A) narrates that Rasulullaah (Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) once informed the Sahaaba (R.A) of 5 things.
1.Allah does not sleep,nor is it befitting for him to sleep.
2.Allah raises and lowers the scalers(of deeds).
3.The deeds of the night are lifted to him before the deeds of the day.
4.The deeds of the day are lifted to him before those of the night.
5.Allah is veiled with celestial light.If Allah has to lift this veil,the brilliance of his Being will incinerate everything that the creation can see.
(The veil of Allah is not physical but this is the veil of his honour and grandeur.)Muslim Vol 1.

Finally it will be rude of me if i do not answer your 2 questions.
1) why God spoke to Muhammad through an Angel, but to Moses directly? (and Yet to Jesus through the Holy Spirit?)
Your question shows a total lack of knowledge so far as Islamic deen is concerned.Just to enlighten you Rasulullaah(Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) made a night journey.
The Noble Quraan Surat Al-'Isrā' (The Night Journey) .There are many hadith regarding the night journey so please do your poor soul a favour and read it up.Rasulullaah(Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) spoke to Allah and the gift of salah was presented.
Futher to your question note all Angels are Spirits.You have Holy Spirits and evil Spirits.Sataan was an Angel and he is a evil Spirit.The Angel that came to Rasulullaah(Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) was a Holy Spirit.The Angel that came to Essa (a.s) was also a Holy Spirit.Not forgetting that an Angel(Holy Spirit) also came to Musa (a.s).Read Exodus 3 Moses and the burning bush.
2). If God could directly appear on earth, why He sent Messengers and Prophets? WHy He did not come among people and directly talk with them and reveal to them His Laws directly.
This question has already been answered.Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala never came to earth.Not possible because it will lead to earths destruction.

Investigative Truth
The first words that was revealed to Rasulullaah(Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) was Iqra.Read...Read...read..
Rasulullaah(Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) left behind 2 things.One is the Quraan so read it with understanding and second is his sunnahs.His sunnahs are his way of life.If you read the Quraan without studying his way of life then you will be in a path of total confusion.
Peace and have a wonderfulday.
Farouk

If you born an ignorant then its not your fault.But if you die an ignorant then its your fault.​

​

​

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You said you chose the more accurate translation of Quraan. How do you know that which translation is more accurate when you dont know Arabic.

Hello Ashnu,

Just got some more time to reply to the rest of you comments.
As I said before, I know Quranic Arabic, and I can understand many of the verses of Quran, just by reading its Arabic without translations.
The Translations that are out there are often effected by interpretation of the Translator. So, for example if the translator is a Sunni Hanafi, He would translate it in a way to match with his sect beliefs. If He is a Shia twelve Imam, the translator does it according to his beliefs in his sects.
I read the Arabic, and choose the translation that is the most accurate in terms of grammar, and pure from 'interpretations'.

How about you? Do you know Arabic?

Okay, now here you are applying the basic mathematical formula, I guess, which is if A=B and B=c then A=C.[Allah is said as light and Mohammed(s.a.w.s) is said as light then Allah and Mohammed(s.a.w.s) are comparable]
If that is the case, Prophet Mohammed(s.a.w.s) had two hands, two legs, one body and one head. That is what exactly you and I have. You and I also have two hands, two legs, one body and one head. Does that make you and me equal to Prophet Mohammed(s.a.w.s)[Allah forbids]??

No, I didn't say it makes us equal. Neither it makes God and Muhammad equal. But according to these verses there is similarities, but not equality.
And these similarities is because God chooses to Manifest His own light and attributes in His servants.

My dear friend, the Hadith clearly says: "Allah will come to them and say". If that Hadith speaks about Allah's Knowledge, why would it say Allah will come?

As I showed in My previous posts, since by coming the Messengers of God, 'The Words, Will and Attributes of God" are revealed to the World, therefore, by coming of Allah, can only mean, His Messengers who reveals the Word and Attributes of God.
The invisible God is too high to come to the limited physical world.

Can you please investigate what this Hadith is about?

Here is another Tradition: "I am two years younger than my Lord"

أنا أصغر من ربى بسنتين

Also:

أنَا أَقَلُّ مِنْ رَبِّي* بِسَنَتَيْنِ

http://www.dd-sunnah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72517

http://www.mezan.net/vb/showthread.php?t=10327

Inner Secrets of the Path

Okay, I agree you didnt translate it by yourself. But that is what i have been saying dont depend upon others translations. Learn Arabic, read Quraan and know the meanings.
I just want to say your tanslations might be correct but your interpretations are wrong. And if you ask me to specify, I would just give the example of As-Sirat. Even after me giving all the description about the bridge, you still misinterpret it.

My friend,

One of the most important verses in Quran is 3:7

"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding."

al-Imran 3:7


Specifically the part underlined is very important.

No one knows its Hidden Meaning except God.

SO, we should as ourselves, If no One knows its interpretation, then what can we do, and why should God reveal some verses that no one knows its hidden meaning.

The answer is in the Quran:

"What have they to wait for now but its interpretation? When its interpretation shall come, they who aforetime were oblivious of it shall say, "The Prophets of our Lord did indeed bring the truth; shall we have any intercessor to intercede for us? or could we not be sent back? Then would we act otherwise than we have acted." But they have ruined themselves; and the deities of their own devising have fled from them!"
al-A`raf 7:53


more over Quran says that Day comes 1000 years after Islam:

"He directs the command from the heaven to the earth; then it ascends toward Him in a day whose span is a thousand years by your reckoning." Quran 32:5

And this is how I explain it part by part:

"He directs the command from the heaven to the earth" this is a reference to the revelation of Islam. The word used in this verse is "Amr" which is the command of God as a revelation. In many other verses same word is translated as "Cause"

"then it ascends toward Him in a day whose span is a thousand years by your reckoning."

The second part denotes the life span of Islam, which is 1000 years.



There is another Sahih Hadith too:

In Hadith below the 'relative' period of stay of people of Muhammad is explained in comparison to the duration of Christianity and Jews.


Volume 9, Book 93, Number 624:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Your stay (in this world) in comparison to the stay of the nations preceding you, is like the period between 'Asr prayer and the sun set (in comparison to a whole day). The people of the Torah were given the Torah and they acted on it till midday and then they were unable to carry on. And they were given (a reward equal to) one Qirat each. Then the people of the Gospel were given the Gospel and they acted on it till 'Asr Prayer and then they were unable to carry on, so they were given la reward equal to) one Qirat each. Then you were given the Qur'an and you acted on it till sunset, therefore you were given (a reward equal to) two Qirats each. On that, the people of the Scriptures said, 'These people (Muslims) did less work than we but they took a bigger reward.' Allah said (to them). 'Have I done any oppression to you as regards your rights?' They said, "No." Then Allah said, 'That is My Blessing which I grant to whomsoever I will.' "
SAHIH BUKHARI, BOOK 93: ONENESS, UNIQUENESS OF ALLAH (TAWHEED)


Moselms Period: equivalent to Afternoon till sunset
Christian period: equivalent to noon till afternoon
Jews Period: Equivalent to Sunset till noon

So, let's calculate Moslems period.

Christian period was about 600 years (From Jesus till Muhammad)
Jews Period was about 1600 years (From Moses till Jesus)

Putting into equation:

sunrise till noon (Jews) = noon till afternoon (Christians) + afternoon till sunset (Muslims)

1600 years = 600 years + Period of stay of People of Muhammad

Period of Islam = 1600 - 600 = 1000 years.

Please check if my calculations or analysis of Hadith is correct.
For you reference, Rabbinical Judaism calculated a lifespan of Moses corresponding to 1391–1271 BCE; Jerome gives 1592 BC, and Ussher 1619 BC.

I went with 1600 years BC.
Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My friend, that is exactly what I have been saying from the starting of my last post. I never said trust scholors alone. In fact, Allah says, Learn Quran by yourself, if you cant understand, refer to Hadiths about the verses, still if you cant understand, go to a learned person.
And here learned person means learned person literally. who have maximum knowledge of Quran and Hadith.

I agree. But unfortunately most scholars are biased. So, some for example, some parts of Bible are regarding Muhammad. But if a christian goes to their scholar, you know.....likewise the Muslim scholars are often biased.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Hai friend,
Sorry to interrupt you two guys in your discussion(you and Farouk).

No problem you can join our discussion.

Allah never directly appear on the earth. Even at the time of Moses(PBUH), Allah did not appear directly. Moses(PBUH) could talk to Allah directly not see Allah or Allah appearing on Earth.
Once Moses(PBUH) urged Allah to come down to earth, then Allah just kept His toe on the earth. At that time a huge earthquake came and a huge noise and a heavy amount of light came on to earth.
The sound, light and quake was so heavy that Moses(PBUH) could not bear and got faint.

Yes, but as you said it, God talked to Moses. So, a conversation took place according to Quran between Moses and God.
So, my Question was, then Why according to Islam God sent angel to reveal Quran to Muhammad, Why Islam doesn't say that God revealed Quran to Muhammad by speaking to Him directly?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Investigate Truth
Peace and salaam.
Note all i intend doing was to increase your knowledge in Islam due to your ignorance.Taken note of your avoidance in my simple question of revealing the story of Hazrat Musa(a.s) meeting with Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala on mount tur.You either ignorant of this meeting or lazy in revealing to us this incident.Let me enlighten you in just a few words.


Take a simple lesson from the above verse.Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala mearly cast his shadow over the mount and it turned into dust and Hazrat Musa (a.s) lost his senses.People will only be able to see Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala in Jannah and non may do so in this World.
The ff verse reconfirms the above.
The Noble Quraan 6:103 Surat Al-'An`ām

Sahih International
"Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted".
Lesson from the above verses is one of Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala concepts.Now if any one and i mean any one that claim that he is Allah on earth then we,who have true deen in our hearts,will reject his claims.Keep in mind that Dajal with all his God given talents will definately test the true believers by claiming Godship.

Hello farouk,

These are good information above. I am not sure what you conclude from your information. DO you mean that God will never Manifest Himself? Considering the above, then how do you explain the Hadith and verse:

"As for those who believe not in the signs of God, or that they shall ever meet Him, these of My mercy shall despair, and for them doth a grievous chastisement await." Quran 29:23
al-`Ankabut 29:23


And in Hadith:

"O Allah's Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?" He replied, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the full moon on a clear (not cloudy) night?" They replied, "No, O Allah's Apostle!" He said, "Do you have any doubt in seeing the sun when there are no clouds?" They replied in the negative. He said, "You will see Allah (your Lord) in the same way. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be gathered and He will order the people to follow what they used to worship. So some of them will follow the sun, some will follow the moon, and some will follow other deities; and only this nation (Muslims) will be left with its hypocrites. Allah will come to them and say, 'I am Your Lord.' They will say, 'We shall stay in this place till our Lord comes to us and when our Lord will come, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to them again and say, 'I am your Lord.' They will say, 'You are our Lord.' Allah will call them, and As-Sirat (a bridge) will be laid across Hell and I (Muhammad) shall be the first amongst the Apostles to cross it with my followers. Nobody except the Apostles will then be able to speak and they will be saying then, 'O Allah! Save us. O Allah Save us.'"-Sahih Bukhari 1:770

For the Hadith, I am mostly interested how you explain the underlined part in the Hadith.

The Noble Quraan 7:143 Surat Al-'A`rāf (The Heights)
Yusuf Ali
When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

So, when Prophet Muhammad Traveled to God, did He see God? If yes, then how do you reconcile the above verse "By no means canst thou see Me"

and if no, then what was its purpose?
I mean, on one hand you believe God revealed Quran through an Angel instead of directly speaking. On the other hand you believe Muhammad traveled to God.

Investigate Truth if your belief is that Allah can manifest himself on earth then be very careful of Dajal.

Yes, It does. But Dajjal is blind in one eye. have you not read the Hadithes from the Prophet?

Here is something that will be of interest to you.
Hazrat Abu Moosa (R.A) narrates that Rasulullaah (Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) once informed the Sahaaba (R.A) of 5 things.
1.Allah does not sleep,nor is it befitting for him to sleep.
2.Allah raises and lowers the scalers(of deeds).
3.The deeds of the night are lifted to him before the deeds of the day.
4.The deeds of the day are lifted to him before those of the night.
5.Allah is veiled with celestial light.If Allah has to lift this veil,the brilliance of his Being will incinerate everything that the creation can see.
(The veil of Allah is not physical but this is the veil of his honour and grandeur.)Muslim Vol 1.

Yes, these are good information.

Finally it will be rude of me if i do not answer your 2 questions.
1) why God spoke to Muhammad through an Angel, but to Moses directly? (and Yet to Jesus through the Holy Spirit?)
Your question shows a total lack of knowledge so far as Islamic deen is concerned.Just to enlighten you Rasulullaah(Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) made a night journey.
The Noble Quraan Surat Al-'Isrā' (The Night Journey) .There are many hadith regarding the night journey so please do your poor soul a favour and read it up.Rasulullaah(Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) spoke to Allah and the gift of salah was presented.
Futher to your question note all Angels are Spirits.You have Holy Spirits and evil Spirits.Sataan was an Angel and he is a evil Spirit.The Angel that came to Rasulullaah(Sallallaahu-Alayhi-Wa-Sallam) was a Holy Spirit.The Angel that came to Essa (a.s) was also a Holy Spirit.Not forgetting that an Angel(Holy Spirit) also came to Musa (a.s).Read Exodus 3 Moses and the burning bush.

It seems to me you did not understand my question.
I didn't say God cannot speak directly to His prophet. Off Course He can,
My Question is this: Then why Allah sent Angel to reveal Quran to Muhammad? When it was possible for God to speak directly with Muhammad to reveal the verses of Quran, Then why does Islam say Quran was revealed though an Angel?

2). If God could directly appear on earth, why He sent Messengers and Prophets? WHy He did not come among people and directly talk with them and reveal to them His Laws directly.
This question has already been answered.Allah Subhana Wa ta'ala never came to earth.Not possible because it will lead to earths destruction.

Then how do you explain the Hadith that says Allah comes to them?

 

[anshu]

It is not wrong. It is correct, but it requires 'Taweel'

I think we should learn a lesson from the mistakes of the people of the past.


If you investigate Jewish Traditions, and Torah, there are signs given for Messiah.Theses signs are:

"The Messiah will arise out of an unknown city. He shall sit upon the throne of David, and behold, He shall come with a sword of steel, and with a sceptre of iron shall He rule! He shall fulfill the law of the Prophets, He shall conquer the East and the West, and shall glorify His chosen people the Jews. He shall bring with Him a reign of peace, during which even the animals shall cease to be at enmity with man. For behold the wolf and the lamb shall drink from the same spring, and the lion and the doe shall lie down in the same pasture, the serpent and the mouse shall share the same nest, and all God’s creatures shall be at rest’."

According to the Jews, Jesus the Christ fulfilled none of these conditions. Because:

"He came from Nazareth, no unknown place. He carried no sword in His hand, nor even a stick. He did not sit upon the Throne of David, He was a poor man. He reformed the Law of Moses, and broke the Sabbath Day. He did not conquer the East and the West, but was Himself subject to the Roman Law. He did not exalt the Jews, but taught equality and brotherhood, and rebuked the Scribes and Pharisees. He brought in no reign of peace, for during His lifetime injustice and cruelty reached such a height that even He Himself fell a victim to it...."


Why the Jews did not think Jesus fulfilled these prophecies? Because, they interpreted these signs literally and "outwardly" (similar to our Muslim friends!)


But Jesus did fulfill these Prophecies, in a spiritual sense:


"Although He came from Nazareth, which was a known place, He also came from Heaven. His body was born of Mary, but His Spirit came from Heaven [an unknown place]. The sword He carried was the sword of His tongue, with which He divided the good from the evil, the true from the false, the faithful from the unfaithful, and the light from the darkness. His Word was indeed a sharp sword! The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting. He exalted those Jews who recognized Him. They were men and women of humble birth, but contact with Him made them great and gave them everlasting dignity. The animals who were to live with one another signified the different sects and races, who, once having been at war, were now to dwell in love and charity, drinking together the water of life from Christ the Eternal Spring.
Thus, all the spiritual prophecies concerning the coming of Christ were fulfilled, but the Jews shut their eyes that they should not see, and their ears that they should not hear, and the Divine Reality of Christ passed through their midst unheard, unloved and unrecognized.
It is easy to read the Holy Scriptures, but it is only with a clean heart and a pure mind that one may understand their true meaning. Let us ask God’s help to enable us to understand the Holy Books. Let us pray for eyes to see and ears to hear, and for hearts that long for peace."

hai
After this post, I would like to know what, according to you or according to Baha'i sect of Islam, is the Taweel of As-Sirat?

 

[anshu]

Hi Anshu,

We need to understand the difference between sects and Religion.
For example, the Jews had sects, but all those sects agreed on one thing. That things was, their religion is the last one, and their Book the last. When Jesus came, He revealed a New Book. Therefore Jesus who claimed to be MEssiah, established Religion, not a sect, eventhough He was born among Jews.
Likewise, In Islam, there are many sects. When the Bab and Baha'u'llah appeared, They revealed New Books from God, and establish Religion, not sect.
The sects of Islam are those who believe in finality of the Revelation of Quran.
Although according to the following verses, Quran cannot be the last Book of God:

"Apostles truly have we already sent before thee, and wives and offspring have we given them. Yet no apostle had come with miracles unless by the leave of God. To each age its Book."


So, as the verse says, Quran was for its own Age.


"And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of God be exhausted (in the writing): for God is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom."

I think before coming of Baha Ullah, all the Baha'is were Muslims. Everyone believed in Quran. I want to ask you when Quraan clearly mentions in 33:40 that Mohammed (s.a.w.s) is the last and final Prophet to world. Everyone should believe in it. But how come suddenly another person comes with a Book and you all got to believe in him.
The verse 33:40 says Mohammed(s.a.w.s) as the seal of the Prophets.
When seal of the Prophets has arrived then how come another messenger has arrived?

 

[anshu]

No problem you can join our discussion.



Yes, but as you said it, God talked to Moses. So, a conversation took place according to Quran between Moses and God.
So, my Question was, then Why according to Islam God sent angel to reveal Quran to Muhammad, Why Islam doesn't say that God revealed Quran to Muhammad by speaking to Him directly?

Hai,
Who are you and me to decide for Allah that how should He reveal His terms? It is His will and Wish what He should do and when.

Even Christians have this sort of foolish discussion that when all the Prophets after Ishaq(PBUH)have come from the offsprings of Ishaq(PBUH) not from the offsprings of Ismail(PBUH) then how come Mohammed(PBUH) has come from the offspring of Ismail(PBUH)?
Then Allah replies in 6:124 "...Allah knows best where (and how) to carry out His mission..."

The same reply I would like to give to you.

 

[anshu]

Hello Ashnu,

Just got some more time to reply to the rest of you comments.
As I said before, I know Quranic Arabic, and I can understand many of the verses of Quran, just by reading its Arabic without translations.
The Translations that are out there are often effected by interpretation of the Translator. So, for example if the translator is a Sunni Hanafi, He would translate it in a way to match with his sect beliefs. If He is a Shia twelve Imam, the translator does it according to his beliefs in his sects.

Hai,
I agree completely with you here that translators of the particular sects translate Quraan supporting their own sects.
That is the reason I always read Quran and try understanding it by myself with out any translators' help.

I read the Arabic, and choose the translation that is the most accurate in terms of grammar, and pure from 'interpretations'.

How about you? Do you know Arabic?

It is good that you understand Quraan and Hadith in Arabic and I am amazed that even you understand it in Arabic you speak wrong about it.

Even I understand some part of the Quraan in Arabic rest I try to learn remaining Arabic and try understanding. If I still dont understand i consult some "learned" scholors who "does not believe in sects" as I don't believe in having sects in Islam.

You judge the translations in terms of grammar?? let me remind you my friend, Grammar is not same in all languages. In Arabic the grammar may different and in English Grammar may be different. dont judge based on Grammar.

No, I didn't say it makes us equal. Neither it makes God and Muhammad equal. But according to these verses there is similarities, but not equality.
And these similarities is because God chooses to Manifest His own light and attributes in His servants.

My friend I would like to tell you that every man has this sort of qualities like mercy etc. then do you mean that Allah has manifested His qualities in us therefore Allah and the man are "similar"?

As I showed in My previous posts, since by coming the Messengers of God, 'The Words, Will and Attributes of God" are revealed to the World, therefore, by coming of Allah, can only mean, His Messengers who reveals the Word and Attributes of God.

I think this is the translation you got from your Baha'i scholors. Because no where does the Hadiths says so.

The invisible God is too high to come to the limited physical world.

I totally agree. Hence we have got the actual answer of this debate. I am shocked that this answer is from you.

Can you please investigate what this Hadith is about?

Here is another Tradition: "I am two years younger than my Lord"

أنا أصغر من ربى بسنتين

Also:

أنَا أَقَلُّ مِنْ رَبِّي* بِسَنَتَيْنِ

As i said, I am just a student, I dont know of those verses now, I will come to you about it later on.

My friend,

One of the most important verses in Quran is 3:7

"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding."



Specifically the part underlined is very important.

No one knows its Hidden Meaning except God.

SO, we should as ourselves, If no One knows its interpretation, then what can we do, and why should God reveal some verses that no one knows its hidden meaning.

This verse is talking about the verses like 2:1 alif laam meem etc no one knows the meaning of those type of verses.

The answer is in the Quran:

"What have they to wait for now but its interpretation? When its interpretation shall come, they who aforetime were oblivious of it shall say, "The Prophets of our Lord did indeed bring the truth; shall we have any intercessor to intercede for us? or could we not be sent back? Then would we act otherwise than we have acted." But they have ruined themselves; and the deities of their own devising have fled from them!"

what do you want to say by quoting this?

more over Quran says that Day comes 1000 years after Islam:

"He directs the command from the heaven to the earth; then it ascends toward Him in a day whose span is a thousand years by your reckoning." Quran 32:5

And this is how I explain it part by part:

"He directs the command from the heaven to the earth" this is a reference to the revelation of Islam. The word used in this verse is "Amr" which is the command of God as a revelation. In many other verses same word is translated as "Cause"

"then it ascends toward Him in a day whose span is a thousand years by your reckoning."

The second part denotes the life span of Islam, which is 1000 years.



There is another Sahih Hadith too:

In Hadith below the 'relative' period of stay of people of Muhammad is explained in comparison to the duration of Christianity and Jews.


Volume 9, Book 93, Number 624:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Your stay (in this world) in comparison to the stay of the nations preceding you, is like the period between 'Asr prayer and the sun set (in comparison to a whole day). The people of the Torah were given the Torah and they acted on it till midday and then they were unable to carry on. And they were given (a reward equal to) one Qirat each. Then the people of the Gospel were given the Gospel and they acted on it till 'Asr Prayer and then they were unable to carry on, so they were given la reward equal to) one Qirat each. Then you were given the Qur'an and you acted on it till sunset, therefore you were given (a reward equal to) two Qirats each. On that, the people of the Scriptures said, 'These people (Muslims) did less work than we but they took a bigger reward.' Allah said (to them). 'Have I done any oppression to you as regards your rights?' They said, "No." Then Allah said, 'That is My Blessing which I grant to whomsoever I will.' "



Moselms Period: equivalent to Afternoon till sunset
Christian period: equivalent to noon till afternoon
Jews Period: Equivalent to Sunset till noon

So, let's calculate Moslems period.

Christian period was about 600 years (From Jesus till Muhammad)
Jews Period was about 1600 years (From Moses till Jesus)

Putting into equation:

sunrise till noon (Jews) = noon till afternoon (Christians) + afternoon till sunset (Muslims)

1600 years = 600 years + Period of stay of People of Muhammad

Period of Islam = 1600 - 600 = 1000 years.

Please check if my calculations or analysis of Hadith is correct.
For you reference, Rabbinical Judaism calculated a lifespan of Moses corresponding to 1391–1271 BCE; Jerome gives 1592 BC, and Ussher 1619 BC.

I went with 1600 years BC.

All this you have made rough calculations.
I dont know about it. In fact, I am hearing it for the first time. First let me check what my Books tell about it and in what context. I will give the answer after that.

I agree. But unfortunately most scholars are biased. So, some for example, some parts of Bible are regarding Muhammad. But if a christian goes to their scholar, you know.....likewise the Muslim scholars are often biased.

Then what do you have to say about the Quranic verse 33:40 saying Mohammed(s.a.w.s) as seal of the prohets.
Moreover, Mohammed(s.a.w.s) said that after him, 30 more fake Prophets will come. I believe or I can say Muslims believe Bab and Baha Ullah are one of those 30.