Muslims: Can God Manifest Himself on Earth?

[InvestigateTruth]

I think before coming of Baha Ullah, all the Baha'is were Muslims. Everyone believed in Quran. I want to ask you when Quraan clearly mentions in 33:40 that Mohammed (s.a.w.s) is the last and final Prophet to world. Everyone should believe in it. But how come suddenly another person comes with a Book and you all got to believe in him.
The verse 33:40 says Mohammed(s.a.w.s) as the seal of the Prophets.
When seal of the Prophets has arrived then how come another messenger has arrived?

Hi Ashnu,
That is a good question.
Off course we believe Muhammad is the Seal of Prophets.
But that requires some investigation as what was intended by the Term 'Seal" in Quran.

The Word is "Khatam" in Arabic. Muhammad is called Khatam Al-Nabeen.

In Old times, "Khatam" was a stone on rings that was used either as 'Ornament" or as "Stamp" to Seal a document.

So, it is merely an interpretation that Seal means 'Last' or 'End'

In fact in Bible it is said:

"... on Jesus, God has set his Seal" John 6:27
(you can see the whole verse, I shortened it for brievity)

It does not mean, That God sealed His revelation and ended that with Jesus.
In this sense, 'Seal' means 'confirm'
One of the Missions of Muhammad was to confirm previous Prophets, hence the term 'Seal of Prophets"
In another sense, Muhammad was the Ornament of Prophets. Like an ornament on a ring, as an analogy.

For example Muhammad called Ali, 'Seal of Believers" ('Khatamul Auliya) that does not mean, He was the last believer.
Aisha, the wife of the Muhammad states;[33]

"Say he is 'seal of prophets' but do not say there is no prophet after him."[34]
​

See here: Khatam an-Nabuwwah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The next thing to know is that there is a difference between Messenger and Prophet.
(Rasoul and Nabi)

The Nabis were the pomoters of religions. The Messengers were the ones with DIrect Revelation, and a New Book and Laws. So, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad were Messengers (and Prophet). But for example Aaron, and Somolon were only Prophets, and not Messenger.


Then after this we come to investigating Hadithes. There are infact Hadithes when Muhammad said, after Him no prophet comes. But we need to understand what that means within its context.

For example:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number."

The above Hadith says that, after Moses and before Jesus, there came a number of Minor Prophets as a promoter of Religion of Moses. These Prophets were Aaron, Solomon, David,...etc. They did not have a Revelation from God with a New Book and Laws, but they had come to teach Moses Laws and guide Jews. So, the Hadith deals with prophethood within the dispensation of Islam. similar to Prophets within the dispensation of Moses. Muhammad said after Him, in Islam only Khalifs come, not prophets.
That does not mean that the Revelation of God ended, even as I already placed verses from Quran, that says, Messengers shall come, and the Writings of God shall never be exahsted.

Morover, Quran Prophecied about Baha'u'llah and the Interpretation of Quran to come:

"a Messenger from God, reciting pages purified, therein true Books." 98:2-3
al-Baiyinah 98:3

' رَسُولٌ مِّنَ اللَّهِ يَتْلُو صُحُفًا مُّطَهَّرَةً فِيهَا كُتُبٌ قَيِّمَةٌ'

Noticing, the Word here is 'Books'. Plural of Book (كُتُب&#1612
To Prophet Muhammad God revealed only One Book. The Holy Quran. So this verse is not talking about Muhammad.
To Baha'u'llah many Books were revealed. Baha'u'llah revealed them in pages (Sohof)


And As Quran said, the interpretation of Quran was to come:

"Now we have brought them a Book explaining it in knowledge, a guidance and a mercy to a people who believe. Do they wait now for aught but its interpretation?− on the day when its interpretation shall come, those who forgot it before will say, ‘There did come to us the apostles of our Lord in truth, have we intercessors to intercede for us? …"(7:53)

هَلْ يَنظُرُونَ إِلَّا تَأْوِيلَهُ يَوْمَ يَأْتِي تَأْوِيلُهُ يَقُولُ الَّذِينَ نَسُوهُ مِن قَبْلُ قَدْ جَاءَتْ رُسُلُ رَبِّنَا بِالْحَقِّ فَهَل لَّنَا مِن شُفَعَاءَ فَيَشْفَعُوا لَنَا أَوْ نُرَدُّ فَنَعْمَلَ غَيْرَ الَّذِي كُنَّا نَعْمَلُ قَدْ خَسِرُوا أَنفُسَهُمْ وَضَلَّ عَنْهُم مَّا كَانُوا يَفْتَرُونَ


This Prophecy is Fulfilled in the Revelation of Baha'u'llah, as He revealed many Tablets and Books in which the interpretation of Quran came.
Specifically Book of Iqan (Certitude) can be seen as the fulfillment:

The Kitáb-i-Íqán

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Who are you and me to decide for Allah that how should He reveal His terms? It is His will and Wish what He should do and when.

My friend, the Christians believe God has three parts, Jesus, Holy Spirit and Father.
If you ask them it doesn't make sense and is not logical, they surely will say to you similar as what you say:
"Who are you and me to decide for God, or know how God is"

But the fact is, any religion that has illogical theology or contradictions, is either a false religion, or its Book is misinterpreted.

Moreover, the answer to my question is found in Quran and Hadithes.

I asked: why Muhammad said, Quran was revealed to Him through an Angel, instead of saying God Spoke to Him directly.

It is said in a Hadith:
"Knowledge is not extensive learning. Rather it is a light that God casts in the heart of whomever He wills."
http://www.al-islam.org/fortyhadith/24.htm

That means, that God can place the knowledge in the Heart, meaning He has the Power of inspiring, and giving the knowledge and Wisdom to His Prophets.


But Muhammad did not say, that God gave Him knowledge, or He inspired Him, because They would not believe. Those people expected an Angel must come with a True Prophet:

“...Why has not an angel been sent down unto him, to act as a warner together with him?” Quran 25:7



Another Hadith says:

"We (the Prophets) speak to people in the measure of their intelligences"
Science and Religion in Islam: The Link.: August 2010

That means, Quran was revealed to the people of the Time of Muhammad, in a way that it can be accepted by their level of intelligence. Those people needed to believe in something unrealistic, such as seeing an imaginary two wing creature, so they can believe.

Likewise the Stories that God spoke to Moses, are not all that literal. Those are power of Inspiration of God that comes to the heart of His Messengers. Quran uses symbolism to describe them.

As Quran says, some of its verses are Figurative (Mutishabihat) (see Quran 3:7)


These Figurative verses are not limited to only disconnected letters (Alif Lam Meem), but also many other verses that are in form of symbolic.
So, in case of Jesus it was said, 'Holy Spirit', in case of Moses 'the burning bush or cloud', and in case of Muhammad 'Angel Gabrael'
All of them are the same, symbolizing the power of direct inspiration from God. But since people take all these statements literal, and understand them according to their outward meaning, to them it appears different from each other.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Then what do you have to say about the Quranic verse 33:40 saying Mohammed(s.a.w.s) as seal of the prohets.

In addition to what I have said about this in my previous posts, I also give another view on this as well:

Muhammad affirmed: "My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marvelled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets."

What the Prophet is saying here is that, there was a civilization of humanity, that was created starting with Adam, and ended with Muhammad.
Muhammad was the last brick of that building.
But we have to ask ourselves.
Is there a limit in creation of God? So, if He created a Building, now He cannot create a City around it?

In our view, there is no limit in His creation.

"The Merciful, Taught the Quran, Created man" Quran 55:1-3

We notice the chronological order of events as expressed in the verses that the Qur'an was "taught" before man was created: "taught the Qur'an, created man".
The meaning becomes clear if the teachings of the Qur'an are considered as creating a new generation of men.

Creation of human is not limited to only a physical creation, but it includes the guidance of God, that makes Mankind, Human in terms of righteousness, civilization and spirituality, otherwise human without guidance from God is like the beasts.



In Quran this creation is called the First Creation. That was part of the 6000 years creation of human generations, starting from Adam to Muhammad, who was the Last Prophet in this Cycle (called Adamic or Prophetic Cycle).

As the following verse says, God's creation has not ended:

“Are We wearied out with the first creation? Yet are they in doubt with regard to a new creation!” Quran 50:15


After the Prophetic cycle that Ended with Muhammad, The Báb and Bahá'u'lláh started the Cycle of Fulfillment, which will last at least five hundred thousand years with numerous Manifestations of God appearing throughout that time.

The Prophecies in Quran regarding the Day of Resurrection, and meeting with Lord, is fulfilled with the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Moreover, Mohammed(s.a.w.s) said that after him, 30 more fake Prophets will come. I believe or I can say Muslims believe Bab and Baha Ullah are one of those 30.

Well, Jesus said:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." Matt. 7:15

I am sure most Christians, specially the learned and scholar Christian would include Prophet Muhammad as one of them.

But we should realize these warnings should not be on our way to investigate claims of Messengers.
Jesus said:

"By their fruit you will recognize them."
The False prophet have evil fruits. The True Prophets the Fruits of Righteousness, unity and peace.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If I still dont understand i consult some "learned" scholors who "does not believe in sects" as I don't believe in having sects in Islam.

Only if you can find a scholar who does not believe in sects.
To me, a Muslim who does not believe in sects, is one who is open to discover the Truth that is scattered in All sects. Wherever he finds truth, he accepts it without bias.

The Truth is One. Those who created sects, divided that truth into pieces, while adding man-made Tafseers. Each group is happy with their own 'Portion'.
So, a Muslim without sect, would accept Sunni Hadith, Shia Hadith and Suffi Hadith, as long as they are true and do not contradict with Quran. Not just saying, these are Shia Hadith I cannot trust them, or these are Sunni hadith and are lies, or those are from Suffies, they cannot be true...etc..etc, those who call other party evil, and think their own sects and religious leaders are the True Ones.

"Turn ye back in repentance to Him, and fear Him: establish regular prayers, and be not ye among those who join gods with Allah,- Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects,- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!"
- Qur'an 30:31-32

 

[InvestigateTruth]

hai
After this post, I would like to know what, according to you or according to Baha'i sect of Islam, is the Taweel of As-Sirat?

Hi Ashnu,

For the record please remember, Baha'i Faith is not a sect of Islam!


Regarding the As-Sirat or The Bridge, Baha'u'llah wrote in answer to the Questions of a man:

"The fifth question concerneth the Bridge of Ṣiráṭ, Paradise, and Hell. The Prophets of God have come in truth and have spoken the truth. Whatsoever the Messenger of God hath announced hath been and will be made manifest. The world is established upon the foundations of reward and punishment. Knowledge and understanding have ever affirmed and will continue to affirm the reality of Paradise and Hell, for reward and punishment require their existence. Paradise signifieth first and foremost the good-pleasure of God. Whosoever attaineth His good-pleasure is reckoned and recorded among the inhabitants of the most exalted paradise and will attain, after the ascension of his soul, that which pen and ink are powerless to describe. For them that are endued with insight and have fixed their gaze upon the Most Sublime Vision, the Bridge, the Balance, Paradise, Hellfire, and all that hath been mentioned and recorded in the Sacred Scriptures are clear and manifest. At the time of the appearance and manifestation of the rays of the Daystar of Truth, all occupy the same station. God then proclaimeth that which He willeth, and whoso heareth His call and acknowledgeth His truth is accounted among the inhabitants of Paradise. Such a soul hath traversed the Bridge, the Balance, and all that hath been recorded regarding the Day of Resurrection, and hath reached his destination. The Day of God’s Revelation is the Day of the most great Resurrection. We cherish the hope that, quaffing from the choice wine of divine inspiration and the pure waters of heavenly grace, thou mayest attain the station of discovery and witnessing, and behold, both outwardly and inwardly, all that which thou hast mentioned."


Bahá'í Reference Library - The Tabernacle of Unity, Pages 57-65


"It is recorded in all the Books of the Gospel that He Who is the Spirit (Jesus) spoke in words of pure light unto His disciples, saying: “Know that heaven and earth may pass away, but my words shall never pass away.” As is clear and evident to thine eminence, these words outwardly mean that the Books of the Gospel will remain in the hands of people till the end of the world, that their laws shall not be abrogated, that their testimony shall not be abolished, and that all that hath been enjoined, prescribed, or ordained therein shall endure forever.

O My brother! Sanctify thy heart, illumine thy soul, and sharpen thy sight, that thou mayest perceive the sweet accents of the Birds of Heaven and the melodies of the Doves of Holiness warbling in the Kingdom of eternity, and perchance apprehend the inner meaning of these utterances and their hidden mysteries. For otherwise, wert thou to interpret these words according to their outward meaning, thou couldst never prove the truth of the Cause of Him Who came after Jesus, nor silence the opponents, nor prevail over the contending disbelievers. For the Christian divines use this verse to prove that the Gospel shall never be abrogated and that, even if all the signs recorded in their Books were fulfilled and the Promised One appeared, He would have no recourse but to rule the people according to the ordinances of the Gospel. They contend that if He were to manifest all the signs indicated in the Books, but decree aught besides that which Jesus had decreed, they would neither acknowledge nor follow Him, so clear and self-evident is this matter in their sight.

Thou canst indeed hear the learned and the foolish amongst the people voice the same objections in this day, saying: “The sun hath not risen from the West, nor hath the Crier cried out betwixt earth and heaven. Water hath not inundated certain lands; the Dajjál hath not appeared; Súfyání hath not arisen; nor hath the Temple been witnessed in the sun.” I heard, with Mine own ears, one of their divines proclaim: “Should all these signs come to pass and the long-awaited Qá’im appear, and should He ordain, with respect to even our secondary laws, aught beyond that which hath been revealed in the Qur’án, we would assuredly charge Him with imposture, put Him to death, and refuse forever to acknowledge Him”, and other statements such as these deniers make. And all this, when the Day of Resurrection hath been ushered in, and the Trumpet hath been sounded, and all the denizens of earth and heaven have been gathered together, and the Balance hath been appointed, and the Bridge hath been laid, and the Verses have been sent down, and the Sun hath shone forth, and the stars have been blotted out, and the souls have been raised to life, and the breath of the Spirit hath blown, and the angels have been arrayed in ranks, and Paradise hath been brought nigh, and Hell made to blaze! These things have all come to pass, and yet to this day not a single one of these people hath recognized them! They all lie as dead within their own shrouds, save those who have believed and repaired unto God, who rejoice in this day in His celestial paradise, and who tread the path of His good-pleasure."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gems of Divine Mysteries (Javáhiru’l-Asrár), Pages 1-31

 

[nithyastha]

Yes, So many Times It Already Happened , Now Also he is here. I Have seen God with my eyes.

 

[farouk]

Yes, So many Times It Already Happened , Now Also he is here. I Have seen God with my eyes.

This is very,very interesting.
Please explain to us what is your Gods image?
Simply put it what God looks like?