• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Muslims: Did Mohammed teach something that was worthy of supplanting the teachings of Jesus?

You mean Luke 22?

36And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37“For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” 38They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”


Is he really going to lead a revolution with two swords? That kind of an army would have two swords? I'm putting my money on those swords being used to kill wild animals found on their journey more than people. This is all just diverting attention from Mohammed who was a genuine warrior.

Yes, I'm referring to this but I never said he was gonna start a revolution, just saying. And what I said was accurate as you quoted.. He told them to sell their coats to buy swords if they had no money for them... Just saying...

I'm putting my money on those swords being used to kill wild animals found on their journey more than people.

LOL! You are one funny guy, aren't you?

Maybe they just wanted to pick some flowers along the way too. Hahahahahhahahahahahahahhaaha, very funny. Very funny indeed. Loool - sorry you made my day right here... tooo funny.

Lol, you were prolly dying from laughter at this sentence when you were writing it.

Obviously I'm not saying that he told them to buy swords to go slaughter people, but for self-defense. What's so shameful about admitting it? Dunno why you're crying... It was a wise thing to do, why are you putting him down, sir?

This is all just diverting attention from Mohammed who was a genuine warrior.

First of all, I wasn't diverting cause I'm pretty sure prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) being a 'genuine warrior' was not the topic but was about your misunderstanding of some things..

Second, thank you for the compliment, yes prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a genuine and brave warrior who feared not his enemies, but only God (may He be exalted). I am very proud of this, I don't hide being proud or the fact that he was a brave warrior (thanks again for the compliment about our prophet).

May Allah (The Exalted and Most High) guide you and take away your anger and frustration and replace it with love and care for yourself and others.

Or if you are so angry at Islam and God that you don't want to be guided by Him then follow the Bible where the man you worship: Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon them both) says "love your enemies".
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Yes, I'm referring to this but I never said he was gonna start a revolution, just saying. And what I said was accurate as you quoted.. He told them to sell their coats to buy swords if they had no money for them... Just saying...



LOL! You are one funny guy, aren't you?

Maybe they just wanted to pick some flowers along the way too. Hahahahahhahahahahahahahhaaha, very funny. Very funny indeed. Loool - sorry you made my day right here... tooo funny.

Lol, you were prolly dying from laughter at this sentence when you were writing it.

Obviously I'm not saying that he told them to buy swords to go slaughter people, but for self-defense. What's so shameful about admitting it? Dunno why you're crying... It was a wise thing to do, why are you putting him down, sir?



First of all, I wasn't diverting cause I'm pretty sure prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) being a 'genuine warrior' was not the topic but was about your misunderstanding of some things..

Second, thank you for the compliment, yes prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a genuine and brave warrior who feared not his enemies, but only God (may He be exalted). I am very proud of this, I don't hide being proud or the fact that he was a brave warrior (thanks again for the compliment about our prophet).

May Allah (The Exalted and Most High) guide you and take away your anger and frustration and replace it with love and care for yourself and others.

Or if you are so angry at Islam and God that you don't want to be guided by Him then follow the Bible where the man you worship: Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon them both) says "love your enemies".

Diversions aside, did the angel claiming to speak for God give to Mohammed one teaching that was worthy of supplanting the teachings of Jesus found in the OP?
 
Diversions aside, did the angel claiming to speak for God give to Mohammed one teaching that was worthy of supplanting the teachings of Jesus found in the OP?

Lol, stop crying :p

Well, prophet Jesus' teachings (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) were not necessarily replaced, more like most of the message he got was continued with prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

Like I told you, there are many similar sayings of the prophet Muhammad and in the preserved Word of Allah (Azza wa Jal) to the sayings of prophet Jesus (may peace be upon them both) that are in the Bible and from what you posted.

The thing that was replaced is the Law given to prophet Jesus (peace be upon him). For example the Mosaic Law says eye for an eye. prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) said no, if someone slapped you on your left cheek give them the right too. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) came with a middle path and he said for certain things done to you, you can move along with the necessary 'charges' against him or forgive him, and God loves those who show mercy to one another.

To be honest I don't exactly understand what you're looking for.. Sayings of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) or verses from the Quran that are similar to the quotes of prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) in the Bible?

To me you just sound like a frustrated person who doesn't know what to do with himself.. That's the 'vibe' i'm getting.. Are you frustrated and don't want to accept the fact that the last prophet came for all of mankind?

Dunno why when this is already told to you, in the Bible that prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) only came for his people and he told his disciples, "go ye not in the way of the gentiles".

May the God of Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, Abraham (peace be upon them all), and all creation, the One True God guide you and deliver you from your frustrations and into peace acquired through submitting to God.

{But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah ?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].}

[ Surat 'Ali 'Imran/3 v. 52 ]
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
. Are you frustrated and don't want to accept the fact that the last prophet came for all of mankind?



[ Surat 'Ali 'Imran/3 v. 52 ]

No, I'm trying to judge the merits of the teachings he wrote in the Koran that he claimed were from God. I challenge someone to quote teachings from the Koran that promote peace and love like those of Jesus that I posted in the OP. I admit that my impression of the teachings in the Koran is that they represent a step backwards, not forwards in regards to instructing us on how to best live in harmony with our neighbor.
 
Last edited:

arthra

Baha'i
One way to look at this is that Jesus taught people how to get along together on a person to person level...

Jesus didn't have any teachings for a community that are extant as such while there are verses in the Qur'an that deal more with a community..

Why is this? Because the historical circumstances were different. Jesus the Messiah taught while Rome occupied the Holy Land... Prophet Muhammad taught in Arabia at a time when a community of the believers who submitted to God was forming.

Jesus teachings are essentially based on loving your neighbor and loving God..

12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 12:30

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

(King James Bible, Mark)

In the Quran:

"Yet are there some amongst mankind who take to themselves peers other than God; they love them as they should love God while those who believe love God more."

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 2 - The Heifer)

"Righteousness is not that ye turn your faces towards the east or the west, but righteousness is, one who believes in God, and the last day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives wealth for His love to kindred, and orphans, and the poor, and the son of the road, beggars, and those in captivity; and who is steadfast in prayer, and gives alms; and those who are sure of their covenant when they make a covenant; and the patient in poverty, and distress, and in time of violence; these are they who are true, and these are those who fear."

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 2 - The Heifer)
 
No, I'm trying to judge the merits of the teachings he wrote in the Koran that he claimed were from God. I challenge someone to quote teachings from the Koran that promote peace and love like those of Jesus that I posted in the OP. I admit that my impression of the teachings in the Koran is that they represent a step backwards, not forwards in regards to instructing us on how to best live in harmony with our neighbor.

I didn't memorize the Quran but I'll try to get some.

{Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason."

And do not approach the orphan's property except in a way that is best until he reaches maturity. And give full measure and weight in justice. We do not charge any soul except [with that within] its capacity. And when you testify, be just, even if [it concerns] a near relative. And the covenant of Allah fulfill. This has He instructed you that you may remember.

And, [moreover], this is My path, which is straight, so follow it; and do not follow [other] ways, for you will be separated from His way. This has He instructed you that you may become righteous.}
[ Surat Al-Baqarah/2 vs. 151-153 ]


Furthermore, in Islam it is OBLIGATORY to give charity, it is one of the 5 pillars. What about in Christianity? Didn't think so...

{And spend in the way of Allah and do not throw [yourselves] with your [own] hands into destruction [by refraining]. And do good; indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.}
[ Surat Al-Baqarah/2, v. 195 ]

Look, we are commanded to give charity and not to throw ourselves into destruction by not giving it. Praise be to Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala).


{It is that of which Allah gives good tidings to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not ask you for this message any payment [but] only good will through kinship." And whoever commits a good deed - We will increase for him good therein. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Appreciative.}
Surat Ash-Shuraa/42, v. 23


{And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace,}
[ Surat Al-Furqan/25, v. 63 ]


{O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.}
[ Surat Al-Hujurat/49 v. 11-12 ]


{And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend.

But none is granted it except those who are patient, and none is granted it except one having a great portion [of good].

And if there comes to you from Satan an evil suggestion, then seek refuge in Allah . Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Knowing.}
[ Surat Fussilat/41 vs. 34-36 ]


{And hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and a garden as wide as the heavens and earth, prepared for the righteous

Who spend [in the cause of Allah ] during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon the people - and Allah loves the doers of good;}
[ Surat 'Ali 'Imran/3, vs. 133-134 ]


{And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass?

It is the freeing of a slave

Or feeding on a day of severe hunger

An orphan of near relationship

Or a needy person in misery

And then being among those who believed and advised one another to patience and advised one another to compassion.

Those are the companions of the right.}
[ Surat Al-Balad/90, vs. 12-18 ]


{Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful.}
[ Surat An-Nisa/4, v. 36 ]


{And your Lord has decreed that you not worship except Him, and to parents, good treatment. Whether one or both of them reach old age [while] with you, say not to them [so much as], "uff," and do not repel them but speak to them a noble word.

And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy and say, "My Lord, have mercy upon them as they brought me up [when I was] small."}
[ Surat Al-'Isra/17 vs. 23-24 ]


Indeed, many a Christian claim they have read the Quran. No doubt, when you dig a little deeper, the truth is uncovered.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
I
Indeed, many a Christian claim they have read the Quran. No doubt, when you dig a little deeper, the truth is uncovered.

You have to understand that a Christian isn't reading the book as if it's the word of God. That being the case he's certainly not going to meditate on each word like a Muslim would. The Bible is so big that most of us can't even do that with the Bible to the degree we'd like. Not only that, Mohammed's god wasn't much of a communicator IMO. The Koran is torture to get through. One is relieved to put it down because of its incoherence. Such factors don't encourage the nonbeliever to take multiple looks at it.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
As far as the teachings from the Koran that you posted, there's basically nothing that isn't found in the Bible which came long before. And still nothing as radical as Jesus' instructions for dealing with conflict and enemies. As far as how Jesus wants us to handle our finances:


Matthew 6:24
24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.


Here Jesus is command that one submits to God with their finances. What do you think that looks like?

Luke 11

39 Then the Lord said to him, “Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.
42 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.

Jesus is also advocating a tithe in these verses which generally means giving a tenth of one's income to God.
 
Last edited:

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Maybe they just wanted to pick some flowers along the way too. Hahahahahhahahahahahahahhaaha, very funny. Very funny indeed. Loool - sorry you made my day right here... tooo funny.
".

I was thinking more along the lines of an ancient all purpose utility blade as opposed to a weapon of war.
 

arthra

Baha'i
You have to understand that a Christian isn't reading the book as if it's the word of God. That being the case he's certainly not going to meditate on each word like a Muslim would. The Bible is so big that most of us can't even do that with the Bible to the degree we'd like. Not only that, Mohammed's god wasn't much of a communicator IMO. The Koran is torture to get through. One is relieved to put it down because of its incoherence. Such factors don't encourage the nonbeliever to take multiple looks at it.

jungle,

I think there's a certain bias in your remarks about Quran.. and why can't a Christian "meditate on each word like a Muslim would"?

I'm not a Muslim myself but a Baha'i and I find the Qur'an very beautiful and powerful at the same time..

Trust me if you would read the Qur'an impartially and without prejudice you will sense that God communicates!

IN the name of the merciful and compassionate God. By the star when it falls, your comrade errs not, nor is he deluded! nor speaks he out of lust! It is but an inspiration inspired! One mighty in power taught him, endowed with sound understanding, and appeared, he being in the loftiest tract.
Then drew he near and hovered o'er! until he was two bows' length off or nigher still! Then he inspired his servant what he inspired him; the heart belies not what he saw! What, will ye dispute with him on what he saw?
And he saw him another time, by the lote tree none may pass; near which is the garden of the Abode! When there covered the lote tree what did cover it! The sight swerved not nor wandered. He saw then the greatest of the signs of his Lord.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 53 - The Star)

This is my favorite:

God is the light of the heavens and the earth; His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, and the lamp is in a glass, the glass is as though it were a glittering star; it is lit from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the east nor of the west, the oil of which would well-nigh give light though no fire touched it,-light upon light!-God guides to His light whom He pleases; and God strikes out parables for men, and God all things doth know. In the houses God has permitted to be reared and His name to be mentioned therein-His praises are celebrated therein mornings and evenings.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 24 - Light)
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
jungle,

I think there's a certain bias in your remarks about Quran.. and why can't a Christian "meditate on each word like a Muslim would"?

I'm not a Muslim myself but a Baha'i and I find the Qur'an very beautiful and powerful at the same time..

Trust me if you would read the Qur'an impartially and without prejudice you will sense that God communicates!

IN the name of the merciful and compassionate God. By the star when it falls, your comrade errs not, nor is he deluded! nor speaks he out of lust! It is but an inspiration inspired! One mighty in power taught him, endowed with sound understanding, and appeared, he being in the loftiest tract.
Then drew he near and hovered o'er! until he was two bows' length off or nigher still! Then he inspired his servant what he inspired him; the heart belies not what he saw! What, will ye dispute with him on what he saw?
And he saw him another time, by the lote tree none may pass; near which is the garden of the Abode! When there covered the lote tree what did cover it! The sight swerved not nor wandered. He saw then the greatest of the signs of his Lord.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 53 - The Star)

This is my favorite:

God is the light of the heavens and the earth; His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, and the lamp is in a glass, the glass is as though it were a glittering star; it is lit from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the east nor of the west, the oil of which would well-nigh give light though no fire touched it,-light upon light!-God guides to His light whom He pleases; and God strikes out parables for men, and God all things doth know. In the houses God has permitted to be reared and His name to be mentioned therein-His praises are celebrated therein mornings and evenings.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 24 - Light)

From a Christian pov, I can't deny that there are portions of God's truth in the Koran. As someone who doesn't believe in Mohammed as a prophet, I attribute those portions to the act of plagiarizing the Bible. I've read many parts of the Koran that sound very similar to the Psalms and in fact contain much of the same content. The passages you quoted are good examples of this. We also know Mohammed was partial to the Psalms. I can see how the Christians whom Mohammed reportedly told what he thought were the words of Gabriel could think and reassure him they were from the Lord. My guess is that he hadn't gotten to the part of his "revelation" where he denied the crucifixion.
 
Last edited:

arthra

Baha'i
As far as your allegation of plagiarizing the Bible goes ...read

Bible translations into Arabic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In order to plagiarize you have to start with a text...and there's no available text in Arabic that we know of that was in use at the time of Prophet Muhammad.. but let's consider the definition of plagiarizing

"...to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source"

The Qur'an does recognize the revelation of the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospel.. and indicates these come from the same Source:

THE CHAPTER OF IMRAN'S FAMILY
(III. Medina.)
IN the name of the merciful and compassionate God. ALIF LAM MIM. God, there is no god but He, the living, the self-subsistent. He has sent down to thee the Book, in truth, confirming what was before it, and has revealed the law, and the gospel before for the guidance of men, and has revealed the Discrimination.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran's Family)

This is their similitude in the Torah; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 48)

163. We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him; We sent inspiration to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, to Jesus Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 4)

The Quran has similar stories as the Bible with additional information and also with a distinct style and so is not plagiarized.

........................................................

Regarding the crucifixion the Qur'an says they did not kill Him..meaning His Spirit..

Martyrs are not to be referred to as "killed". Read

And say not, of those who are killed in the cause of Allāh that they are dead, nay, they are living; only you perceive not.

(Holy Qur’ān 2:154)

So with this in mind now read the

157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;" but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.
158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 4)

The Spirit of Christ was "raised" to God.

Now read the account of Luke

23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

(King James Bible, Luke)

God raised Him up to Himself...meaning His Spirit. They could not kill His Spirit.
 
You have to understand that a Christian isn't reading the book as if it's the word of God

What does this have to do with anything?

I was pointing out the fact that you were thinking and implying that there's nothing 'nice' in the Quran and things like the verses I posted. And in the same time you claimed to have read the Quran thoroughly in some parts and skimmed through others. Just in the early chapters there's all kinds of stuff similar to the things I posted, things like that are throughout the whole Quran. And many Christians i've spoken with said they read the Quran but as I said when you dig a lil deeper the truth is uncovered.

Also it's funny to me when Christians say the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) plagiarized the Bible. Cause if that's true, then he left out all the errors and disgusting porn out. And the way it speaks about the honorable prophets of God. Those who believe such things, like prophet Lot (peace and blessings be upon him) getting drunk and having sex with his own daughters (may God forgive me for even mentioning such a lie against His prophet), those who believe that truly are a wretched people.


As for the charity thing, I never denied that prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) it is only right that a prophet of God would advise them to do so..
You asked for verses and I gave them to you, stop crying son.

Furthermore, I don't think you understand how huge of a sin it is in Islam to not pay the charity. It is humongous and we are warned and commanded many times in the Quran by God to do pay it.

Also, we have a whole system in Islam of paying charity. It is all recorded in the Quran and Sunnah of the prophet (peace be upon him). If you make over a certain amount, you donate a certain percent of charity. It is the duty upon those who are adults, sane, and have jobs. In Christianity, some of you just do it cause you're nice but nobody acts like its obligatory upon them. If they don't, they don't who cares. No.

Now wheres your system son? Please, you can't get on this level. Try as much as you want, you will never do it without changing your religion and innovating things into it. Who would want to plagiarize a book that's so graphic in it's porn scenes? Nobody. It only makes sense that there are similar themes and stories when it's from the same source.

Would you read to your daughter, mother, sister, fiance if shes a good woman, about incest, incest-rape, and balls the size of those of donkeys and emissions like that of horses? I have not met a single Christian that said yes to this, but there's a first time for everything, you wanna be the first?
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I give money to charity totally of my own choice, and not from any "obligation"

The problem that not all people are as good as you.
but even few who got such attitude to help the poor,
but i do admire such characteristic in yours.

But do you think it is bad that god will request from who is
rich to support the poor.

That is my question,having in mind that few got such characteristic as yours,
few will pay without any benefit back to them.
 

kai

ragamuffin
The problem that not all people are as good as you.
but even few who got such attitude to help the poor,
but i do admire such characteristic in yours.

But do you think it is bad that god will request from who is
rich to support the poor.

That is my question,having in mind that few got such characteristic as yours,
few will pay without any benefit back to them.


I think you would be surprised at just how many people do give to charities etc,

I believe its entirely up to the individual what they do with their money , but i am inclined to admire those that contribute freely without any sense of obligation.

My question would be-- is God requesting or demanding?
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I think you would be surprised at just how many people do give to charities etc,

I believe its entirely up to the individual what they do with their money , but i am inclined to admire those that contribute freely without any sense of obligation.

My question would be-- is God requesting or demanding?

of course you can refuse,but that will regard as a sin,
which means that god will regard you as a bad guy.

in other words god dont like such people who refuse to help
the poor,but of course there is no gun on your head to do that.:)
 
Top