Muslims the least educated in the world?

[1robin]

What about ETA ?

Is it due to illiteracy in France & Spain that ETA came to existence ?

Does any possible response to this question have any effect on the opening post in this thread? I thought Spain was your only go to for Islamic science and education. Funny it is now on the bad list.

 

[outhouse]

See, also …

​

Apparently those involved are not "True Muslms".

Point taken.


But no one is claiming all muslims are not educated.

We are debating "if" the religion has a role at all or promotes retardation of education.


So your no true Scotsman doesn't apply to all here.

 

[1robin]

Seriously?

Let's deal with the agenda driving this thread and the fallacies supporting that agenda. We can discuss the other hand in some other thread.

Even given that there "was?" an agenda that does not change the statistics used in this thread. I also believe it relevant. If any factor associated with advancement and truth is negatively confined by any religious category then it is relevant. One of my greatest disappointments is that divorce rates and other stats do not bear out a Christian having unique access to God. I have always admitted the disappointment and relevancy, fortunately Christianity has a vast amount of statistics in it's favor that goes a long way towards restoring it's claims of relation to God. I do not find that with Islam outside a few cherry picked dark age references far too small to make up for the massive problems it has.

Agenda or not, has no effect on the stats.
Agenda or not, the issue is just as relevant.

 

[FearGod]

What about Aum Shinrikyo ?

Is it due to illiteracy in Japan that this terrorist organization came to existence ?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Well deserved actually.

Your religion is headlines for barbaric and primitive actions almost daily.

It owns the crown for king of terrorism and world violence.

Its my opinion its due to the required fanaticism and fundamentalism.

You can wish to fix the religion, or you can ignore the barbarianism fanaticism breeds.

My post had so much to answer to that, along with so many other posts in this thread. Did you (intentionally or by mistake) really not see it?

And, I still don't get why you still can't distinguish between religion and people. The uneducated 60%, remember? Actions are done by people and the subject people here are mostly uneducated. Your own claim!

 

[icehorse]

Hi Smart_Guy,

I might be misunderstanding, but it seems like your argument is:

- we can credit Islam when it's good stuff
- we should blame people when it's bad stuff

Some people would call this playing tennis without the net.

 

[outhouse]

I still don't get why you still can't distinguish between religion and people

I don't get why you cannot see the required fanaticism of your literal religion.


Any literal interpretation of mythology turns humans away from reality, agreed?

 

[outhouse]

My post had so much to answer to that,

No real answer, just more of this from you that is not substantiated

does not necessarily reflect Islam

And we all know it does.



It is like saying our Christian YEC denounce education and science and evolution, because its the kind of people they are

Its not, they are factually like that because of religion and religion alone.

islam, will never fix itself unless it can stop the required fundamentalism and fanaticism [and that means stop reading it literally and accept the mythology for what it is]

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hi Smart_Guy,

I might be misunderstanding, but it seems like your argument is:

- we can credit Islam when it's good stuff
- we should blame people when it's bad stuff

Some people would call this playing tennis without the net.

Playing tennis without the net would be much easier

Well, if both sides are of the same species; i.e. both are humans and not one of them is a religion.

But anyways, in this context I'm not saying not to blame Islam. Our topic is about the uneducated people that can't read properly to understand it. If we wanna blame religion, we can at least do it judging the people that at least very well educated in it. That's only going along with the OP's argument.

I don't get why you cannot see the required fanaticism of your literal religion.

Any literal interpretation of mythology turns humans away from reality, agreed?

And I don't get why you accuse others with fanaticism while you over generalize fundamentalism and fanaticism to a whole huge group; i.e. you say ALL Muslims, 100% of them, are fanatics and fundamentalists. Isn't that fundamentalism and fanaticism?

And yes I agree, any literal interpretation of "mythology" does indeed turn humans away from reality.

No real answer, just more of this from you that is not substantiated

Answer to what? Could you please repeat the question?

I mean, anyone can skip a full post, quoting only a not so important small part of it, ignoring the important parts, and confuse things later on saying there was no real answer somewhere else!

And we all know it does.

It is like saying our Christian YEC denounce education and science and evolution, because its the kind of people they are

Its not, they are factually like that because of religion and religion alone.

islam, will never fix itself unless it can stop the required fundamentalism and fanaticism [and that means stop reading it literally and accept the mythology for what it is]

You quoted only "does not necessarily reflect Islam" which is completely misleading to the readers (you did it again). They are probably thinking "what does?".

I cannot see how your example above is related to our discussion! But are you saying that "your" Christian YEC, as you call it not me, perfectly reflect Christianity? I know they don't, what do you say?

 

[Shad]

thanks for this enlighting ,

btw is least educated nation could less criminal ? it's could be yes and could be no .

i am not provoke here , i just post an opinion :
USA had good education , but it's had high rate in crimes , how you explain that contradiction ?

I am finding many on this forum just Google their arguments or use sources which lack credibility. It is not strictly isolated to theists or atheists but those whom can not form their own arguments. There are posts all over which just copy complete articles from a website.These type of debates go nowhere and abuse of such a method kills debates. People are no longer debating each other, they are debate random websites on the net.

The USA also has one of the worst poverty rates in the 1st world, limited social programs and poor public education standards. The high point of American education is in universities which cost money per course rather than the lump sum process found in public school. Why not compare a nation like Canada, Finland and Sweden. Lower crime, high living standards, high education standards. Also keep in mind crime also reflects punishment, government and laws. America even with it's flaws is not a police state, dictatorship or communist. These systems have laws which are used to oppression the population, some to the point that people can be arrested for speaking against the government. There is also a number of nations which hold religious laws which would result in a number of members on this forum being arrested for blasphemy. Also American prison systems do not reform or educate it's inmate. So an uneducated inmates in jail for crimes committed due to poverty have little chance of getting out of poverty creating a cycle of incarceration and crime. Governments iron grip on their societies is often confused for justice and low crime when it is in fact oppression

 

[outhouse]

The USA also has one of the worst poverty rates in the 1st world, limited social programs and poor public education standards. The high point of American education is in universities which cost money per course rather than the lump sum process found in public school. Why not compare a nation like Canada, Finland and Sweden. Lower crime, high living standards, high education standards.

Also keep in mind crime also reflects punishment, government and laws. America even with it's flaws is not a police state, dictatorship or communist. These systems have laws which are used to oppression the population, some to the point that people can be arrested for speaking against the government. There is also a number of nations which hold religious laws which would result in a number of members on this forum being arrested for blasphemy. Also American prison systems do not reform or educate it's inmate. So an uneducated inmates in jail for crimes committed due to poverty have little chance of getting out of poverty creating a cycle of incarceration and crime. Governments iron grip on their societies is often confused for justice and low crime when it is in fact oppression

Immigrant criminality makes up over 60%- 70% of the nations crime.


We are multi cultural and a very diverse nation. The most diverse I should say?


And in doing so, with such diversity, we are also a model of how under freedom, that people of different race and color can and do get alone combined with religious freedom.

 

[1robin]

What about Aum Shinrikyo ?

Is it due to illiteracy in Japan that this terrorist organization came to existence ?

How is whatever happens in Japan a defense of Islam?

 

[FearGod]

How is whatever happens in Japan a defense of Islam?

It is the thread owner view that there is a relationship between illiteracy in ones nation and terrorism.

The existence of a terrorist organization in a nation like Japan proves him wrong.

 

[1robin]

It is the thread owner view that there is a relationship between illiteracy in ones nation and terrorism.

The existence of a terrorist organization in a nation like Japan proves him wrong.

I saw his initial post and I also saw him link theology with ignorance. That is the context my statement was in. Regardless terror exists in every nation in history, however Islam has perfected it and raised it to a new and terrible level that is inconceivable for any theology that is in fact true. A false religion explains Islam's excellence in all things terror related quite well. IMO Everything is inter-related. The theology, ignorance, terrorism, poverty, social backwardness, etc..... are all tied together.

 

[outhouse]

I saw his initial post and I also saw him link theology with ignorance. That is the context my statement was in. Regardless terror exists in every nation in history, however Islam has perfected it and raised it to a new and terrible level that is inconceivable for any theology that is in fact true. A false religion explains Islam's excellence in all things terror related quite well. IMO Everything is inter-related. The theology, ignorance, terrorism, poverty, social backwardness, etc..... are all tied together.

Please lets be accurate here, I did not link anything other then statistics and posed a question asking why.

Does this lack of education promote violence and terrorism due to poverty associated with ignorance?

Does religious belief promote this lack of education?

OR does lack of education promote religious belief?

The problem is dynamic and I would guess all three are at issue to some percent


I have also seen a pattern of muslims ignoring any negative aspect of the religion. Maybe they have to due to the constant negativity that is always present.

 

[1robin]

Please lets be accurate here, I did not link anything other then statistics and posed a question asking why.

Yeah, you linked ignorance and theology. I did not say you drew a conclusion from it. I went on to add my own thoughts and my allusions to what you said ended there. I did not say you thought it was causal, corollary or anything, but you did list ignorance being much worse in a certain theological context. .

The problem is dynamic and I would guess all three are at issue to some percent


I have also seen a pattern of muslims ignoring any negative aspect of the religion. Maybe they have to due to the constant negativity that is always present.

I went on to give my own opinion and it is similar to yours but a little more emphatic, but I don't think I have misrepresented you here. Do we have an accord? That is pirate, for do we agree. Hollywood pirate anyway. I think every aspect follows from and adds to the others until you get a perfect storm of dysfunction called the middle east, among others.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Religiously speaking, I expect that the least educated people would be the various, primitive tribal peoples around the world who practice religions that are animistic, shamanistic, and often include elements of magic and ancestor worship. I'm not sure how much terrorism is attributed to these peoples.

 

[Godobeyer]

And I don't get why you accuse others with fanaticism while you over generalize fundamentalism and fanaticism to a whole huge group; i.e. you say ALL Muslims, 100% of them, are fanatics and fundamentalists. Isn't that fundamentalism and fanaticism?




I mean, anyone can skip a full post, quoting only a not so important small part of it, ignoring the important parts, and confuse things later on saying there was no real answer somewhere else!


You quoted only "does not necessarily reflect Islam" which is completely misleading to the readers (you did it again). They are probably thinking "what does?".

frubal here

Same here , that happaned to me
I do agree with you , outhouse always generalize to all muslims and all Islam teaching

and he always mis quoted my posted to misleading the meaning of my posts , or to avoid to answser ,for my opinion this methode represent his failure .

 

[outhouse]

I'm not sure how much terrorism is attributed to these peoples.

If they were 2 billion strong and poverty stricken, do you think there would be numbers attributed?

 

[outhouse]

I do agree with you , outhouse always generalize to all muslims and all Islam teaching

.

But is it accurate is the question.


Do you think the Koran is all gods word and true?