My first Eucharist...

[Mr Spinkles]

I went to a Catholic high school, starting my sophomore year. The ceremonies I attended inside our gymnasium were the first Catholic masses I had ever been to...it was all very strange to me. Prior to this, I had only been to Presbyterian churches. Eventually the time came in the mass for the Eucharist.

Now, keep in mind, at this time I was completely ignorant of the Catholic faith other than a few things: that they had a Pope, bishops, confessed their sins to priests, and prayed to Saints like Mary. I was also a new student, very nervous and timid.

So anyway, I noticed that people began lining up to drink from a cup of wine, and take what I thought was bread. At first I thought I shouldn't go up, since I wasn't Catholic...but then I thought "hey, we're all Christians, right?" Besides, I would have thought someone would tell me if I was supposed to do something different, and I figured I might be scolded or thought disrespectful if I remained in my seat.

In my Presbyterian church, the ceremony of the Eucharist was performed extremely rarely, and little square peices of actual bread were used. At this Catholic service, small coin-chaped crackers with crosses on them were used. As I came to the front of the line to receive my cracker, I realized I had no idea what I was doing. I saw other people crossing themselves after they took the crackers...I tried to memorize "up, down, left, right".

I arrived. The priest said "Body of Christ" and held up the cracker in front of me. Instead of ceremoniously holding out my hands for the priest to place the cracker into, as everyone else had done, I awkwardly reached out and took the cracker out of his hands....and forgot to cross myself before moving on.

Now, imagine my horror when I looked down at the thing in my hands..."What the heck is this??! This isn't bread!" Oh no--was I sure I saw anyone else actually PUT it in their MOUTH? I was certain that this small disk was made of cardboard....perhaps the cross in the middle was where you poke a candle through, so that it catches dripping wax...I had no idea.

I decided to gamble. I put the thing in my mouth to see if it was bread, hoping no one would see. Yep, I was right--it definitely tasted like cardboard. At this point, I felt very embarassed--what I moron I am, putting cardboard in my mouth in front of everyone else. I still wasn't positive that it was inedible, and wasn't sure what to do with it, so I took it out of my mouth and put it in my pocket, again hoping no one would see. I took a big, awkward gulp of the wine, forgot to cross myself again, and took my seat.

Unfortunately by the time I got back to my seat, the Eucharist had ended so I could no longer see what people were doing with their little cardboard disks. I noticed no one else had brought them back to their seats....

When the mass ended without a distribution of candles, I was very perplexed. As I walked out of the gym into the halls with the rest of the students, I felt in my pocket, and the cardboard coin was still there...what am I supposed to do with this? I didn't want to risk asking someone and looking like an idiot, so I clandestinely threw it into a trashcan I passed. Problem solved! Next time I'll pay closer attention to what people were doing with these things...

Well, later that year, I told a friend the embarrassing story. "Those crackers are the Body of Christ....you threw away Jesus!" I replied that they tasted like cardboard.... "It's unlevened bread...it sort of melts in your mouth. You threw away Jesus!"

I hope you guys aren't too mad at me, it was an honest mistake...how big of an offense is this?

 

[civilcynic]

That is a great story.....really too funny! Can't imagine anyone taking real offense at your confusion and subsequnet faux pas.....including God.

 

[Scott1]

Mr Sprinkles,

Very interesting story!!

All I can say is "Da-Oh!" (In my best Homer voice)

I hope you guys aren't too mad at me, it was an honest mistake...how big of an offense is this?

Not mad at all...... you didn't know..

As far as how big an offense this is: THERE IS HARDLY ONE BIGGER.
You tossed away the body, blood, soul and divinity of the Risen Jesus Christ.

but, like I said, you didn't know........ I forgive ya!

Your friend in Christ,
Scott

 

[Lightkeeper]

I have been in situations like that and can feel for you. I think the most important thing is what happened inside of you that day. I would have had mixed emotions. This was a religious ceremony, yet people didn't have compassion for you and made you feel guilty that you had created a huge sin. That is certainly a mixed message. You made an honest mistake. Since you were new there, someone should have prepared you for this event.

 

[anders]

Dear Mr_Spinkles,

As you obviously hadn't been told how to handle (mouth?) the wafer, I suppose that there is a risk that you haven't been told about the transsubstantiation either. From the age of 14 until the age of 60, I thought I knew all about it: The Catholics teach that the wafer and the wine are transformed into the very flesh and blood of Christ, while the Protestant view is that both are symbols.

Imagine my shock when I realised that the Protestant teaching is that the flesh and blood really are there, in some mysterious way hidden between the bread and wine molecules respectively!

Digging further into these miracles, I found out that Protestants teach that you really ingest flesh and blood, but that they only are there during the ceremony, and equally mysteriously disappear afterwards. In spite of this, there are devout Protestant ministers who drink any leftover wine, so as not to have to pour it down a common drain. I don't know if Catholics have a point in time when the flesh and blood revert to bread and wine. If not, it wasn't bread that you threw away, but really a part of Christ that hit the trashcan, as SOGFPP wrote. With the Protestant view, you only got rid of a piece of bread.

A thought I have had during the process of rejecting Christianity is, what if all the Christians of the world were having Eucharist at the same time -- how many molecules of Christ's flesh and blood would each one get? And I have had the terrible thought, what happens to His flesh and blood in the metabolic system, and when and how does He reassemble to be in order for the next round of Eucharists?

Christians will have to forgive my thoughts -- they were very serious to me at one time.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Imagine my shock when I realised that the Protestant teaching is that the flesh and blood really are there, in some mysterious way hidden between the bread and wine molecules respectively!

Really? That is very surprising...are you sure that isn't just certain Protestant sects? I went to a Presbyterian church for years, and I was always taught the bread and wine were just symbolic.

A thought I have had during the process of rejecting Christianity is, what if all the Christians of the world were having Eucharist at the same time -- how many molecules of Christ's flesh and blood would each one get? And I have had the terrible thought, what happens to His flesh and blood in the metabolic system, and when and how does He reassemble to be in order for the next round of Eucharists?

Christians will have to forgive my thoughts -- they were very serious to me at one time.

I wondered the same thing when I learned about the transubstantiation....it all comes down to faith, not logic I suppose.

Lightkeeper--actually, my friends were just joking with me about the whole thing...they weren't seriously scolding me, so much as poking fun at me.

Scott-- Are Protestants allowed to/supposed to receive Eucharist at Catholic masses? Some people told me yes, others told me no...I received Eucharist countless times at my high school...what is the Church's stance on this? What do you think?

 

[anders]

Not only "sects", Mr_Spinkles.

In Luther's "Small Cathechism" it is very clear:

"What is the Sacrament of the Altar?

Instituted by Jesus Christ himself, it is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, under the bread and wine, given to us Christians to eat and to drink" (my emphasis).

The notion that bread and wine are given as symbols only is most emphatically rejected in the Lutheran Solida declaratio (1580), in referring to the teachings of Paul and Cyril. I have found no prohibition for Protestants to partake of Catholic Eucharists, but this ceremony seems to be regarded as invalid, as the theory of transubstantiation is rejected by Lutherans (Calvinists for ecample may have other views.)

It surprised me that you got wine. I had the impression that Roman Catholic laymen didn't receive wine, only the clergy, out of fear of spilling drops of the blood of Christ. I interpret my encyclopedia as that laymen now are allowed to get wine, but find no starting date for this permission. It might have been Pope Paul VI, but searching for "'Paul VI' AND wine" gave 41 800 000 Internet hits...

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The changes were probably a part of the Vatican II council. A lot of Catholic doctrine changed then to make the mass/eucharist more inclusive of the lay people.

I got the following from http://www.pcusa.org/today/archive/believe/wpb9505.htm

"This, then, is the Presbyterian understanding of Communion: Is Jesus physically present in the elements of the Eucharist--have the molecules of bread been changed into molecules of the body of Jesus? No.

Is Jesus spiritually present in the elements of the Eucharist, authentically present in the non-atom-based substance with which he is con-substantial with God--that is, is he genuinely there to be received by us, and not just in our memories? Yes."

I always thought it was just symbolic...I guess I was wrong! Rather strange doctrine, if I do say so...

 

[Scott1]

Hi all,

Some comments about your posts:

Imagine my shock when I realised that the Protestant teaching is that the flesh and blood really are there, in some mysterious way hidden between the bread and wine molecules respectively!

Anders, I don't know where you are from exactly, but here in the United States we have a varied mix of Protestant churches. To say that Protestant teaching about ANYTHING applies to ALL of the sects would be incorrect.

In Luther's "Small Cathechism" it is very clear

Not all Protestants are the Lutheran or Calivinist. The "Bible Only" faction in the United States would not read Luther or believe his catechism. Most "born again" Christians I have met, have never read ONE WORD written by Luther, Calvin, or Knox....etc.

It surprised me that you got wine. I had the impression that Roman Catholic laymen didn't receive wine, only the clergy, out of fear of spilling drops of the blood of Christ.

It has been done in both species (bread and wine) since Christ initiated the Paschal banquet of the Eucharist. Certain times in history and some rites have communion in just one species (bread), but it in no way takes away from the grace received.

For instance, my parish offers communion in both species except for Sunday. The crowd is too large on a Sunday,and to have communion with both would mean a 4 hour mass.

Scott-- Are Protestants allowed to/supposed to receive Eucharist at Catholic masses? Some people told me yes, others told me no...I received Eucharist countless times at my high school...what is the Church's stance on this? What do you think?

Mr Smiley: In a word, NO.

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion.
A Bishop, under extraordinary circumstances, and in accordance with canon law 844 .4 can grant permission to Eucharistic sharing...... which is probably what happened with you in High School.

My opinion.......? I guess I would have to say that I would like to see everyone have the blessing of the Eucharist, but I am not the boss.....

To be Catholic means that you believe the ONLY way for transubstantiation to occur is by a VALIDLY ordained Priest....... in other words:

NO CATHOLIC PRIEST = NO REAL PRESENCE.

I hope this helps in your understanding of the Catholic Eucharist.

Peace,
Scott

 

[anders]

Sometimes I forget that I am in Sweden and most of you (I think) in the US.
Here, the only non-Lutheran Christians I personally know are two (2) Catholics. Non-Christians I have met are atheists or agnostics, with the exception of a few Jews and some Muslims I have met when studying Bible Hebrew and Arabic.

 

[johnnys4life]

Okay I am going to be picky here for a minute, not sure that is the right thing to do but if not I will find soon find out. Having been in and out of several protestant churches throughout my life, and having been a protestant for 5 years, I have never been to a church where the eucharist was performed as anything but a symbol, and sometimes hardly even that.

Though I am protestant I have some unsettling feelings about their way of handling it at times. Picky complaint #1 they use torn pieces of yeast-risen bread (usually the stalest and oldest they can find) to symbolize the body of Christ. Why is this when all throughout the Bible yeast is referred to as a symbol of sin, and Christ is therefore symbolically full of it? Catholics at least use unlevened bread, but why are they individual wafers when one of the points of eucharist is that you all eat from the same loaf to show the oneness with each other in Christ?
#2 they rarely use wine to symbolize the blood of Jesus. They usually use grape juice so as not to offend any recovering alcoholics, but sometimes it can be just about anything from fruit punch to grape soda. Kinda hard to concentrate on the blood of Christ when it fizzes in your mouth. Catholics do drink from the same cup of wine but most Protestants don't. My husband says it shows the usual Protestant lack of regard for ritual and symbolism.
Protestants also do not ordinarily take a moment to confess any sin before they take communion, and they allow anyone at all to take it, which is totally contrary to the Bible.
I have a question. (I think someone already asked this) Do the priests always take and eat or drink whatever is left over after the eucharist, or do they just throw it away? Because even if you don't believe that it's the body and blood of Christ, it seems wrong to me to throw away even the "symbolic" equivalent of it.

 

[anders]

As has been made clear to me, my experience doesn't cover all varieties of Protestantism, but only the Lutheran Church of Sweden. I was a Protestant for some 40 years, so I think I have a fair grasp of the Swedish views.

Like I wrote on the previous page, I was convinced that bread and wine were symbols only. However, all Lutheran churches following the Augsburg Confession and the Book of Concord believe that the flesh and blood of Christ really is there, though hidden for our senses. After the ceremony, Christ disappears, so the leftovers can be handled like the bread and wine they are. In spite of this, I have seen special little sinks in sacristies, where excess wine is poured out. I don't remember what happened to it afterwards.

I never saw anything else than separate unleavened wafers, and never thought about it. Using leavened bread, like in the Orthodox churches, might be a way of distinguishing the bread from the unleavened Jewish Easter matzot, as well as giving the possibility to break the bread. Your point "the same loaf" is very good indeed; I'll remember it.

The view of the Church of Sweden was that it must be wine; "red, heavy, sweet and fragrant", usually a very good port-wine or madeira, which congregations are allowed to buy tax free (and that makes a huge difference here). The Council of bishops now recommends real wine, pointing to several pasages in the Bible, but allows grape juice. They very firmly state that any wine substitute must be made from the fruits of the vine. The wine was always delivered from one chalice, the rim of which was wiped after every participant, but nowadays, I think most churches use separate chalices, because of the increased awareness of contagious diseases.

Early in every high mass (the normal Sunday morning service), a standard confession is read, regardless of if communion will follow or not. There will normally be sufficent time before the meal for further contemplation of sins.

In principle, you should have been through confirmation before partaking in communion. That is probably because you should know what you're doing and why. But everybody is welcome to the Lord's table. Anything else would, I think, be contrary to all Christian principles, and any way, it would be impossible to check.

 

[Scott1]

Do the priests always take and eat or drink whatever is left over after the eucharist, or do they just throw it away? Because even if you don't believe that it's the body and blood of Christ, it seems wrong to me to throw away even the "symbolic" equivalent of it.

The consecrated hosts are not thown away, and the wine is consumed.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The view of the Church of Sweden was that it must be wine; "red, heavy, sweet and fragrant", usually a very good port-wine or madeira, which congregations are allowed to buy tax free (and that makes a huge difference here). The Council of bishops now recommends real wine, pointing to several pasages in the Bible, but allows grape juice. They very firmly state that any wine substitute must be made from the fruits of the vine. The wine was always delivered from one chalice, the rim of which was wiped after every participant

I am reminded of the Lilliputian wars in Gulliver's Travels...

 

[Scott1]

Can Someone Move This Thread To Religious Discussion Where It Belongs Please?

 

[Mister Emu]

I have always seen communion as symbolic.

First the breaking of the bread and pouring of the wine symbolizes the breaking of Jesus's body and the spilling of His blood for us.

Secondly the partaking of the bread and wine symbolizes and reaffirms letting Jesus come into your body.

I also believe that any man or woman should be allowed to join the communion, for if they let (or want to let) Jesus in their life, who am I to tell them they cannot be in communion with Him.

If you know of any scripture to dispute my views I would gladly admit I am wrong as I am always trying to spiritualy grow.

 

[roli]

Is there actual understanding as to why this practice is conducted by the religious community,
and is it for everyone that comes thru the doors of the church or for only a selected few

 

[roli]

This is correct, it is associated with the identification of Christ, his life ,death ,burial and resurrection

 

[roli]

Sorry about this topics interduction, but it is directly related to the hole of communion, I do believe

 

[imamom]

Boy was this post a reminder of something that occured im my youth:biglaugh: I was brought up Mehtodist and went to a Catholic Church with one of my friends. I was also nervous not knowing what to expect. My mouth was dry and the little round cardboard sorta stuck to the roof of my mouth. I hoped that no one could see me (mouth closed) trying to use my tongue to unstick it. Thanks for bringing back a memory of long ago.