My problem with religion.

[AxisMundi]

The fish said its fin was itchy.




Please to meet you. I'm your first. A Baha'i who has no interest in or histry of attempting to convert anyone to anything and recomends people be very cautious of and/or stay away from the Baha'i community.



And in like manner "I think you need to realize that it's not how you interprit" my actions it's about you being able to provide any evidence or example of my actions reflecting or representing proselytizing in any way shape or form.

Failing that you have naught but pee in the wind and a hasty decision as to which way the wind is blowing ;-)

I will be sure to point out your prosetylizating efforts in the future, like trying to get people interested by "cautioning them".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ummmmmmmmmm......>what< "activities" did I "describe myself as doing"?

Wait - I think I got myself confused. I thought that you were saying that walking around the park, telling strangers about the Baha'i faith wasn't proselytizing. I went back and realized that I had mis-read what you were saying.

 

[logician]

When "charity" is attached to an agenda, it ceases to be charity and becomes that agenda, in this case simple proselytization.

Smiling missionaries have destroyed more cultures than all armies combined. "Help" given with an agenda is the most insidious type of invasion - an invasion of one's culture.

 

[Wombat]

Smiling missionaries have destroyed more cultures than all armies combined. "Help" given with an agenda is the most insidious type of invasion - an invasion of one's culture.

While there is a great deal of obvious truth in what you assert it is not a cut and dried case of all missionary activity was evil, wrong or culture crushing.
Live, work and talk with indigenous communities in Australia, Polynesia, New Guinea and New Zealand and they will of course be familiar with Colonialism/missionary zeal and accompanying crimes. But they are also aware of the benefits- material, medical, moral and social that accompanied missionary activity and would not relinquish the gains therefrom.

 

[Wombat]

Wait - I think I got myself confused. I thought that you were saying that walking around the park, telling strangers about the Baha'i faith wasn't proselytizing. I went back and realized that I had mis-read what you were saying.

That's ok.

I appreciate your checking back and getting back to me.
Most Baha&#8217;is I communicate with online would deliberately "mis-read" what I have said, spin it 180%, refuse to substantiate and not perform the basic courtesy of responding to pertinent question.
Humanist/Atheist displays greater spirit/spirituality than religious wannabies yet again
;-)
If I had frubals I would offer them....but you are clearly in frubal excess as it is.
Thanks again.
Rod.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Cynicism does not imply nihilism. I'm pretty cynical and idealistic, and I don't see a contradiction there.

I do.

Cynicism and idealism are antonyms.

 

[AxisMundi]

Smiling missionaries have destroyed more cultures than all armies combined. "Help" given with an agenda is the most insidious type of invasion - an invasion of one's culture.

Quite agreed.

And only one continent has been spared that onslaught, and that's only because no one has thought to convert Antarctica's penguin population.

The attempted systematic erasure of ancient cultures and religions was one of the first things that got me closely examining Christianity in my youth, and helped motivate me to leave the religion.

 

[Wombat]

Quite agreed.

And only one continent has been spared that onslaught, and that's only because no one has thought to convert Antarctica's penguin population.

The attempted systematic erasure of ancient cultures and religions was one of the first things that got me closely examining Christianity in my youth, and helped motivate me to leave the religion.

Also quite agreed.

Problem is...religion is not the only or the most pervasive force today engaged in the "systematic erasure of ancient cultures".

Here am I, on the other side of the globe, working with indigenous youth and street kids. The dangers to them? Material and cultural?

Certainly not door knocking Missionaries or Tele Evangelists.

Local youth live in a costal paradise...endless opportunities- educational, recreational, vocational...none need sleep out rough or go hungry.
Problem?
Not the fact they wear their baseball caps backwards, nor the fact they wear their jeans below their arse, not the fact the bits they can’t tattoo they pierce.......problem is they all actually think they are gangsters living in The Hood.
Now what realm of all pervasive cultural imperialism do you think they got that converting idea from?
When the Mormon/Whiteness missionaries come you can see them coming and hear them knocking and choose your response.
The Gangster Rap and the Gangster Crap comes seeping through every pore of American pop culture multimedia...and...at the end of the day the “ancient cultural” rites of passage into adulthood- Trustworthiness, Cooperation, Respect (self/others) are replaced by drink, take drugs, drive fast, have sex.
The latter might be ‘fun’...but they are not measures of adulthood...nor are they dangers peddled by religious missionaries.

 

[AxisMundi]

Also quite agreed.

Problem is...religion is not the only or the most pervasive force today engaged in the "systematic erasure of ancient cultures".

Here am I, on the other side of the globe, working with indigenous youth and street kids. The dangers to them? Material and cultural?

Certainly not door knocking Missionaries or Tele Evangelists.

Local youth live in a costal paradise...endless opportunities- educational, recreational, vocational...none need sleep out rough or go hungry.
Problem?
Not the fact they wear their baseball caps backwards, nor the fact they wear their jeans below their arse, not the fact the bits they can’t tattoo they pierce.......problem is they all actually think they are gangsters living in The Hood.
Now what realm of all pervasive cultural imperialism do you think they got that converting idea from?
When the Mormon/Whiteness missionaries come you can see them coming and hear them knocking and choose your response.
The Gangster Rap and the Gangster Crap comes seeping through every pore of American pop culture multimedia...and...at the end of the day the “ancient cultural” rites of passage into adulthood- Trustworthiness, Cooperation, Respect (self/others) are replaced by drink, take drugs, drive fast, have sex.
The latter might be ‘fun’...but they are not measures of adulthood...nor are they dangers peddled by religious missionaries.

Imagine what it would be like had not missionary imperialism destroyed their ancient culture, opening the path for this self-destructive "culture" they labor under today.

 

[Muffled]

My problem with religion is being told I am going to burn in hell by an extreme rightwing Christian!

Being told is only half of your problem. Going through it is the other half.

 

[Muffled]

I would say this is one of my main problems with it too.

Also, that god would send people to burn in hell for simply not believing in him.

That is a myth. People end up in Hell because their beliefs lead them there. The only time God sends people to Hell is when the final judgement comes and good deeds are weighed against bad deeds.

 

[Muffled]

Smiling missionaries have destroyed more cultures than all armies combined. "Help" given with an agenda is the most insidious type of invasion - an invasion of one's culture.

Some cultures are worthy of death.

There is no doubt that missionaries in the past have spread their own culture along with fulfilling their mission but that seems to be a natural tendency for people to think their own culture is the best. It often has little or nothing to do with the mission itself.

 

[AxisMundi]

That is a myth. People end up in Hell because their beliefs lead them there. The only time God sends people to Hell is when the final judgement comes and good deeds are weighed against bad deeds.

Haven't read your own bible, have you?

Read through the Gospels of John is my suggestion.

Being told is only half of your problem. Going through it is the other half.

Every heaven, and hell, was created, and is supported and maintained, by the adherents of that religion. As such, every heaven, and hell, is closed to people who do not worship within that religion and or worship that deity(ies).

Unfortunately for your argument, your Christian hell is filled exclusively with Christians.

Some cultures are worthy of death.

There is no doubt that missionaries in the past have spread their own culture along with fulfilling their mission but that seems to be a natural tendency for people to think their own culture is the best. It often has little or nothing to do with the mission itself.

Wow, just plain wow.

So a happy, well run culture that lives in harmony with it's own people, and nature itself, is "worthy of death" merely because they go about without clothes and look to deities far older than your own?

The Christian "culture" should've been taking notes from these people, not annihilating their way of life, and their religion.

 

[Nerthus]

That is a myth. People end up in Hell because their beliefs lead them there. The only time God sends people to Hell is when the final judgement comes and good deeds are weighed against bad deeds.

So you're saying that you don't need to be a Christian to get into Heaven?

That's honestly the first time I have heard that said.