• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

My Spiritual Journey

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
My thought... Nice sunset.
You're not exaggerating here? You never have aesthetic experiences that are thrilling, that make you say Wow! and move you deeply? To me, that sounds like saying that you never find anything more than mildly pleasant. Maybe that's the case. If so, you're probably satisfied with that. Most would be if life weren't otherwise unpleasant. I would be. But I occasionally have and enjoy peak experiences as well.
I don't see "spiritual" as necessarily being related to the supernatural.
I think you're saying what I said when I noted that for me, spirituality has nothing to do with spirits.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You're not exaggerating here?
No, I like sunsets.
But I prefer sunrises because they usher in a new day.
You never have aesthetic experiences that are thrilling, that make you say Wow! and move you deeply?
Nothing I'd call "spiritual".
To me, that sounds like saying that you never find anything more than mildly pleasant.
That sounds right.
Maybe that's the case. If so, you're probably satisfied with that.
I am.
Most would be if life weren't otherwise unpleasant. I would be. But I occasionally have and enjoy peak experiences as well.

I think you're saying what I said when I noted that for me, spirituality has nothing to do with spirits.
OK.
 
I guess I wouldn't even be able to recognize a spiritual experience, if I had one. I'm not sure if I know what that means.
As so many people have some form of "spirituality" (and if that is what Michael Shermer calls "agenticity", it is an evolutionary beneficial trait), I consider myself a mutant. I can't remember ever having believed in invisible entities, like ghosts, the Easter bunny or gods.
If there were such a thing as a "god region" in the brain, it would be easy to find by looking, what is missing in my brain.
Well, if mathematical experiences are counted as spiritual, then I just didn’t recognize them, and I’ll have to change my answer.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Pretend as you will, you did not
address it.
And you just said "no" with no discussion. Blind rejection is not part of an intellectual discussion. I pointed out that the willingess to question and the refusal to accept something unexamined is the distinction. Do you really think questioning something is utterly unimportant and irrelevant?
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Mostly what you aay of your own spiritual
experiences are what i list under transcendence.

We all experience and seek out transcendent
experiences.
More than anything anyone has posted so far in this thread, I think this is what is meant by 'spiritual journey.'

To seek out, have, and to try to derive understanding and/or meaning from one's transcendent experiences.

Which, perhaps oddly enough, can come in the most mundane of situations.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Well, if mathematical experiences are counted as spiritual, then I just didn’t recognize them, and I’ll have to change my answer.
Have you ever had the experience of being "in the zone" while working mathematical equations? Your intuition (unconscious cognition) and conscious cognition are synched up and working together. This wholeness (oneness) of consciousness can be be considered to be a mystical state by the most basic definition.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
if mathematical experiences are counted as spiritual
Sometimes they are. There is beauty in mathematics. How about e^iπ = -1? Or even a2 + b2 = c2 for right triangles? Or 0.999...=1? All of those make one feel like there is magic there.

Anything to do with the infinities such as fractals or infinite additions with finite sums or different cardinalities of the infinite (aleph-0, C) is mysterious.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
More than anything anyone has posted so far in this thread, I think this is what is meant by 'spiritual journey.'

To seek out, have, and to try to derive understanding and/or meaning from one's transcendent experiences.

Which, perhaps oddly enough, can come in the most mundane of situations.

Mundane incl cheap wine for street bums.
 
Have you ever had the experience of being "in the zone" while working mathematical equations? Your intuition (unconscious cognition) and conscious cognition are synched up and working together. This wholeness (oneness) of consciousness can be be considered to be a mystical state by the most basic definition.
I think I’m going to change my mind.

I should track down an old email that I once sent to a mathematician I once met on Wikipedia.

It describes an experience I once had in proving what he called “the perfect nirvana of non-existence”.

I’ve grown to like that phrase, and plan to use it should the proof of my own nonexistence that I am working on pan out.
 
Last edited:

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Reverence and spiritual journeys and empathy are I think connected. Through pleasure.

A spiritual journey can seem to be all in one's head, like an LSD trip or like a dream yet have positive results and benefits. It can refer to other things, too, like personal growth or hard work etc; but lets focus on the first one: the pleasure as a spiritual journey.

Yes people can mistake a drug trip for something spiritual, but it can be spiritual! Pleasure can function somewhat like ketamine therapy, bringing a person into a place of peace that allows them to release emotional knots that have caused them problems. Perhaps it opens their minds to solve problems, too. They can change in hours and live differently ever after, or so the internet claims. I'm going mostly on what I've seen and read, although I did once have a kind of supernatural experience. It was pleasurable, brief, somewhat confusing. To me it makes sense though that ketamine therapy or other pleasure might give people progress.

More than one person has told me that they solved problems in their dreams. They used it as a trick to get through classes! They'd focus on the problem just before bed, and when they woke up they'd have solved it. That's a spiritual journey I'd like to have.

If someone lacks empathy its not fatal, but it is regrettable. They may not feel what people expect them to feel which creates a communication problem for them. There are benefits to society which come from such gifts sprinkled into the population, but in a way it makes someone a sacrifice for the good of others. I think its asking too much of a person, so I would have everyone be empathic. Take as an example poor old Sherlock Holmes the fictional character. He lacks empathy sometimes and suffers for it. He's not completely without it, but he doesn't feel comfort from being around people. Even so his suffering drives him to be very productive which benefits society -- just not him. He's comfortable enough and makes a good living, but I don't think its an equal trade. This impedes pleasure, so it impedes the kind of spiritual journey I'm talking about.

Have you heard of the woman born without any amygdala in her brain? She has no capacity for fear at all, yet she manages to avoid dangerous situations. She doesn't take stupid risks. Lacking empathy would not by itself mean we ought exclude a being from humanity. No, however if humans generally lacked empathy then I think humanity would cease. We would lose something cohesive and spiritual (pleasurable).

Am I nihilist? No. No, but I see how pleasure and spirituality seem related. For some people the pleasure comes from appreciating what you have and learning to do so. That is their spiritual journey, and it can be very effective. That is actually the focus of many spiritual exercises -- learning to be pleased by existing.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Reverence and spiritual journeys and empathy are I think connected. Through pleasure.
Have you heard of the bliss of the jhanas? Yes, you can become a bliss junkie.
A spiritual journey can seem to be all in one's head, like an LSD trip or like a dream yet have positive results and benefits. It can refer to other things, too, like personal growth or hard work etc; but lets focus on the first one: the pleasure as a spiritual journey.

Yes people can mistake a drug trip for something spiritual, but it can be spiritual! Pleasure can function somewhat like ketamine therapy, bringing a person into a place of peace that allows them to release emotional knots that have caused them problems. Perhaps it opens their minds to solve problems, too. They can change in hours and live differently ever after, or so the internet claims. I'm going mostly on what I've seen and read, although I did once have a kind of supernatural experience. It was pleasurable, brief, somewhat confusing. To me it makes sense though that ketamine therapy or other pleasure might give people progress.
Let's look at Sherlock Holmes in this regard:
More than one person has told me that they solved problems in their dreams. They used it as a trick to get through classes! They'd focus on the problem just before bed, and when they woke up they'd have solved it. That's a spiritual journey I'd like to have.

If someone lacks empathy its not fatal, but it is regrettable. They may not feel what people expect them to feel which creates a communication problem for them. There are benefits to society which come from such gifts sprinkled into the population, but in a way it makes someone a sacrifice for the good of others. I think its asking too much of a person, so I would have everyone be empathic. Take as an example poor old Sherlock Holmes the fictional character. He lacks empathy sometimes and suffers for it. He's not completely without it, but he doesn't feel comfort from being around people. Even so his suffering drives him to be very productive which benefits society -- just not him. He's comfortable enough and makes a good living, but I don't think its an equal trade. This impedes pleasure, so it impedes the kind of spiritual journey I'm talking about.
"Quick, Watson, the needle!"
He was an opioid addict, supplied by Dr Watson.
Have you heard of the woman born without any amygdala in her brain? She has no capacity for fear at all, yet she manages to avoid dangerous situations. She doesn't take stupid risks. Lacking empathy would not by itself mean we ought exclude a being from humanity. No, however if humans generally lacked empathy then I think humanity would cease. We would lose something cohesive and spiritual (pleasurable).

Am I nihilist? No. No, but I see how pleasure and spirituality seem related. For some people the pleasure comes from appreciating what you have and learning to do so. That is their spiritual journey, and it can be very effective. That is actually the focus of many spiritual exercises -- learning to be pleased by existing.
Do you think pedophile priests are driven by pleasure and are lacking empathy?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Have you heard of the bliss of the jhanas? Yes, you can become a bliss junkie.

Let's look at Sherlock Holmes in this regard:

"Quick, Watson, the needle!"
He was an opioid addict, supplied by Dr Watson.

Do you think pedophile priests are driven by pleasure and are lacking empathy?
Somehow you were able to stop being a bliss junkie. I'm not you, so I don't know if this was a path on your spiritual journey, assuming you had one. You broke free. You realized you had enough pleasure?

Sherlock is fictional and is a caricature of real people, so while he serves as an image he is not an example, though I did use the term 'example' mistakenly. I didn't mean to imply that all people lacking empathy would become junkies. I wanted to (without using a real person) use him to show a popular figure that lacked empathy. Such people exist.

Priests are a whole different ball game though they are males, because they are part of a system and are dependent upon the system. I can't even say what motivates them necessarily. There is no way for me to determine if pedophilia is ritual and how far back it goes. Its possible that priests are not given a choice or that some aren't or that some are required to do other normally evil things. Only priests would know. Its like asking someone why they got divorced. Whatever they say is whatever they say.

Suppose that a person has unresolved trauma, but they can't go near the trauma to process the associated emotions. The therapy may use pain relief. That doesn't mean only pain relief is always the right thing or that permanent pleasure is spirituality. It could be like letting tectonic plates slip just once.
It can refer to other things, too, like personal growth or hard work etc;
Contentment is a good goal in spiritual practice. I don't think that your junkie bliss is the same thing, but maybe it is?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Somehow you were able to stop being a bliss junkie. I'm not you, so I don't know if this was a path on your spiritual journey, assuming you had one. You broke free. You realized you had enough pleasure?
I realized that the bliss of the third rupa jhana was to get my attention and move on to the fourth to integrate the experience that experienced the third rupa jhana.
Sherlock is fictional and is a caricature of real people, so while he serves as an image he is not an example, though I did use the term 'example' mistakenly. I didn't mean to imply that all people lacking empathy would become junkies. I wanted to (without using a real person) use him to show a popular figure that lacked empathy. Such people exist.
understood
Priests are a whole different ball game though they are males, because they are part of a system and are dependent upon the system. I can't even say what motivates them necessarily. There is no way for me to determine if pedophilia is ritual and how far back it goes. Its possible that priests are not given a choice or that some aren't or that some are required to do other normally evil things. Only priests would know. Its like asking someone why they got divorced. Whatever they say is whatever they say.
This was in conjunction to your stating that the spiritual journey was related to pleasure. (Sex is pleasure)
Suppose that a person has unresolved trauma, but they can't go near the trauma to process the associated emotions. The therapy may use pain relief. That doesn't mean only pain relief is always the right thing or that permanent pleasure is spirituality. It could be like letting tectonic plates slip just once.
Everyone has their own unique hang ups to resolve, so each individual's means of resolution will vary between individuals.
Contentment is a good goal in spiritual practice. I don't think that your junkie bliss is the same thing, but maybe it is?
If you are a junkie, you are craving, thinking you are in a state of deprivation. Contentment is thinking you are in a state of satisfaction, not deprivation.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I realized that the bliss of the third rupa jhana was to get my attention and move on to the fourth to integrate the experience that experienced the third rupa jhana.
I am trying to understand but not having experienced this jhana I probably do not understand. I've been curious about this before, because I remember you mentioning it in another thread. It is possible to stay too long in it or even get stuck there. That seems to be your point.

understood
:)
This was in conjunction to your stating that the spiritual journey was related to pleasure. (Sex is pleasure)
Thinking this through, yes sex is supposed to pleasurable, but there are different kinds of pain and different pain killers. If your foot hurts but I numb your hand it doesn't relieve your pain. Having some candy doesn't fix everything. It might fix something though.
Everyone has their own unique hang ups to resolve, so each individual's means of resolution will vary between individuals.
Different help for different pains?
If you are a junkie, you are craving, thinking you are in a state of deprivation. Contentment is thinking you are in a state of satisfaction, not deprivation.
The junkie fulfills their desire in ways that worsen their desire, but if they could numb the root of their pain perhaps they would not do that. Analogously if I throw you into a pool, but you cannot swim you might panic and thrash. I can yell at you that you're only making your problems worse by thrashing, or I can throw you a float.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I never had one.


That might sound flippant, but this is a serious thread.
I'm curious if anyone else here has never experienced
what appears to be so common.
Hello. I just turned into this thread, but I'd like to know what you consider as a spiritual journey. My next question is why do you think you never had one? But your other thought to hear from others who never experienced a spiritual quest, or journey, is interesting in itself, and therefore that would eliminate me from getting involved too much with this.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Hello. I just turned into this thread, but I'd like to know what you consider as a spiritual journey.
I imagine a connection with something larger,
eg, humanity, the supernatural.
My next question is why do you think you never had one?
Never felt that way.
But your other thought to hear from others who never experienced a spiritual quest, or journey, is interesting in itself, and therefore that would eliminate me from getting involved too much with this.
I was curious about others like me.
But I invite you to post too.
The more the merrier.
 
Top