My views on homosexuality

[Desert Snake]

When I first read that, I was like “Incoherent?” I didn’t get how you found any of my posts incoherent. Then I looked at your name “Pot-Kettle” and remembered thinking something about you a while back (which is the reason if you notice, I don't often respond to you). Then it all clicked. Pretty much anything would seem incoherent to you. I’ll leave it at that.

You're reasoning is incoherent. You still haven't explained why homosexuality is wrong, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter whether you "respond" to me or not, I'm merely exposing your flawed logic.
btw once again, VAGUE...you need to explain yourself more clearly.

 

[thebigpicture]

no you haven't

Then my work is done 'cause you'll never get it.

and how many heterosexual men and women lie about their marital status and have affairs? this explains nothing, well yeah something...your ignorance...

And you've missed the whole point. As usual.

 

[thebigpicture]

1) Homosexuality is not the same as trans.
2) The problem in the scenario you outline isn't minority sexuality, it's dishonesty.

Transgender simply means that someone has gone through extensive medical procedures to appear and react as the opposite sex. There might be rare exceptions, but a transgendered person is a homosexual. It's one gender having an operation to appear as the opposite gender but continues to sleep with someone of the same gender. In which case, regardless of the operation, the person is still gay. I don't know about you, but I've never known for a heterosexual person to up and get a sex change and continue to have an intimate relationship with the opposite sex.

 

[thebigpicture]

Quite clear. You are relying solely on your concept of a Creator and this Creator's purposes for mankind, as opposed to the more than thousands of other views presented of Creators and their purposes throughout history, as opposed to relying on any scientific literature.

To counter your argument all I have to do is state that I believe in a Creator and that the revealed purpose of this Creator is anything I want it to be to counter anything you ever say.

Interesting.

That's why facts and common sense exists and are pretty handy tools. Use them. I do.

 

[thebigpicture]

Obviously, as I have said before (as a general statement about right-wingers/conservatives that oppose LGBT rights), it is because homosexual sex is somehow both completely icky and oddly compelling...

When it concerns my views, your whole statement is a complete "negative".

 

[thebigpicture]

could you narrow that down a bit? Which particular creator? The one that I follow didn't, to the best of my knowledge, address the specifics of sexually moral behavior; were I to take the behavior of the Gods as a moral guide, it is perfectly acceptable to prostitute one's self for the good of your group (Loki, resulting in Odin's horse Sleipner), or for that matter to gain something one wishes (Freya to gain Brisingamen), or to establish the hierarchy of human society and to disseminate knowledge to humanity (Heimdal).

So, again, not particularly impressed by arguments that some ill-named deity called "Creator" is condemning the actions of his creation occurring in accord with the nature of that creation.

Go back and read what I said about the Creator and his judgments with regards to homosexuality. I've commented on it more than once. Look it up.

 

[McBell]

That's why facts and common sense exists and are pretty handy tools. Use them. I do.

Really?
You should get an Academy Award for your posts then.

 

[McBell]

A lot of my opinions are fact. You just don't want to admit that.

And to think you actually believe this...

You presume to know me. You don't. But, for the record, the problem doesn't lie within people being conservative. The problem lies within people who don't want rules to exist. It lies within people who want to live in an anarchic world. But the truth of the matter is is that rules exist. There is a right and a wrong. There is morality and immorality. There is good and bad. These things exist whether you like it or not. Not everyone is willing to live in a chaotic world where people just do any and every freaky thing under the sun and not have to be judged and/or reprimanded for it. Most of us know that rules are needed. There has to be boundaries in life.

:sleep:
Wake me up when the sermon is over.

Because it's common sense. A balance is kept through the natural cycle of life; that is obvious to see. It's in both the animal kingdom as well as mankind. What, are you going to suggest that homosexuality balances the animal kingdom as well? Are you kidding me? To think or even suggest that homosexuality exists in order to keep a balance doesn't even remotely make sense. If it makes sense to you, it's because you want it to make sense. Not because it actually does.

Argument from incredulity.

Of course, with your history of blatant dishonesty, it is not the least bit surprising.

 

[thebigpicture]

While I wouldn't consider having an incestuous affair with any of my siblings (I don't find them particularly attractive) or parents (one is dead, the other something of an ***, married and hetero) for other people, my primary objection to incest is related to issues of consent. Due to the nature of familial relationships, I find it unlikely that an informed consensual relationship would form. There are, in my mind, too many power dynamic issues that preexist (parent-child, older sibling-younger sibling, dominant sibling-submissive sibling, etc) for a sexual relationship between two members of the family to really be consensual. If through some made-for-TV type of confluence of events it comes about that two siblings were raised separately (adopted out at birth or some other development of the Plot-Contrivance Man) and met in a bar, fell madly in bed together then found out that they were related, I wouldn't have any issue with their relationship, the relationship would likely NOT be fraught with the power dynamics normally associated with a more conventional sibling relationship.

As for why close kin relationships are likely to have disastrous results from child bearing, it is related to the likelihood of reinforcement of recessive genes causing genetic diseases, aka "inbreeding".

There are people that are attractive to each other within the same family without it being a matter of dominance of one over the other. They are just somehow attracted to one another and end up forming an intimate relationship. There are incestuous relationships that also happen the way you put. Where they meet, fall in love, find out they are related, but decide to continue the relationship anyway. There are also cases in which they meet, find out they are related from the beginning, before it goes any further, but still decide to date and see where it goes.

All cases are immoral. But apparently you don't see where it is a problem.

 

[McBell]

Go back and read what I said about the Creator and his judgments with regards to homosexuality. I've commented on it more than once. Look it up.

Can't.
You have blatantly ignored the questions about how you know the intentions of your alleged "creator".

 

[McBell]

Transgender simply means that someone has gone through extensive medical procedures to appear and react as the opposite sex. There might be rare exceptions, but a transgendered person is a homosexual. It's one gender having an operation to appear as the opposite gender but continues to sleep with someone of the same gender. In which case, regardless of the operation, the person is still gay. I don't know about you, but I've never known for a heterosexual person to up and get a sex change and continue to have an intimate relationship with the opposite sex.

Argument from Incredulity.

Are you able to form an argument that is NOT a logical fallacy?

 

[thebigpicture]

and do you believe your judgments should infringe on the rights of individual freedoms...especially if it is considered "normal" ( for lack of a better word) by psychologists and it is not hurting anyone? really, it isn't any of your business, is it? the only way i can see why you would feel that your judgement would trump others personal freedoms (when homosexuality doesn't involve hurting anyone by infringing on the rights of others) is when you think you are acting as if you were morally superior, when the very act of infringing on the rights of others makes you morally inferior.

A person's freedoms are infringed upon every day all the time. You being required to have auto insurance is an infringement upon your freedom to decide whether or not you really need it. You having to pay taxes is an infringement on your freedom to keep all the money you've earned and worked hard for. Freedoms are infringed upon all the time. Some infringements are good and some are bad.

For the most part, people should have freedom. Period. But, sometimes certain freedoms have to be "infringed" to protect the overall foundation of something much bigger than what involves that individual's personal freedom. Sometimes infringements are necessary.

well i don't know about you but i do abide by the laws society has placed, i'm funny that way...:sarcastic
so because incest isn't a behavior that is up in our faces everyday, yeah it is odd behavior...but we are developing primates after all.

Tch.Tch.Tch. Still evading. When are you going to answer the question straightforward? I didn't ask if you thought it was "odd" behavior. I asked if you, yourself, thought the behavior of two consenting adults having an incestuous relationship was wrong and immoral. Listen. I get it. I know why you don't want to answer the question. Moving on...

Me, myself -- I don't depend on society to tell me homosexuality and/or incest is wrong. If I listened to society, I'd be confused as hell because some people say there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and/or incest (as I'm finding out on this thread) whereas, a lot of others say the complete opposite. I form my own views based on facts, common sense, and what I can clearly see what my own two eyes. I don't conform to other people's views simply because it is the popular view. If I don't agree with something (no matter what it is), I don't agree, regardless of how many other people bandwagon.

so what's the problem...no one is perfect...are you?

Nope. Not at all perfect. Never said I was perfect. Don't know anyone who is. But the thing is this -- we simply can't just have people running around like complete lunatics doing whatever it is they want to do.

 

[thebigpicture]

I think it's hilarious when we get someone who is so steeped in the procreative male ejaculatory bias. Creator or not.

Baby-making is by no means the end-all and be-all of sexuality. Period.

Nope it's not the "end-all be-all of sexuality". I never said it was. But you're certainly here on Earth because of it.

 

[waitasec]

we simply can't just have people running around like complete lunatics doing whatever it is they want to do.

what are talking about? homosexuals are just as viable as heterosexuals...
keep your nose out of their business...how is gay marriage going to infringe on any of your rights? ever heard of live and let live?
who do you think you are?

 

[thebigpicture]

You guys, it’s starting to get to that point where this is seeming redundant and monotonous.

I’ve found out that on this forum when people don’t agree with you or like what you are saying they either skip over or act like they don’t see the facts you give them, act like they don’t understand them, or just say you’ve never answered them or given them any facts at all. (laughs!) You can deny it, but you know it's true. It’s unbelievable! The people I've talked to about some of the conversations I've had on this forum (this thread and another) with you guys can’t understand how I’ve been able to maintain calmness and be so patient with you all. Especially with having to repeat myself over and over and over again. Look, what I’m saying is that it’s time for me to move on from this thread. This is going nowhere fast. You are never going to make me see it your way.

The bottom line is...

Homosexuality is wrong (and so is incest, by the way). Yes, wrooooong. There is no getting around that. It is simply wrong, unnatural, immoral, and, quite frankly, sickening for a man to have sex with another man and/or a woman to have sex with another woman. Period. Now I’ve already stated on an exhausting number of occasions why it is wrong, unnatural, and immoral. You don’t want to hear it. You are going to disagree no matter what I say because you’re into that freaky stuff and you don’t want anyone telling you it’s wrong. You want it to be right so it will remain right in your eyes no matter what. You want to be in an anarchic world where anything goes and want to force right to be wrong and wrong to be right as long as it suits your needs.

The fact of the matter is that you’re in denial if you think homosexuality is okay. As a matter of fact, there have been gay people who have right out said themselves that they know that homosexuality is wrong. And before you say it’s because that’s what society has made them believe, let me tell you, you’re wrong. There have been gay people that have said they always felt it was abnormal or unnatural, not because society said it was and not because their parents or families made them feel that way (some have very supportive families). They, themselves, always felt it was wrong since they were really young and because they themselves felt it was wrong, they hid it until later. There have even been those that felt so strongly it was wrong that they have actually tried to get treatment for it, so that they can have a normal heterosexual life. I’ve heard gays say they know it’s wrong, but they simply can’t help how they are so they act upon it. That the yearning to be with the same sex is too strong for them to ignore so they act upon it. But they still know it’s wrong.

Let me be clear...I don’t feel that homosexual people should be mocked, physically attacked, or treated inhumanely. Just because you’re gay, doesn’t mean you’re not human. I don’t feel that a person will go to hell just because they are gay. Being gay does not make a person deplorable. There are so-called religious people who sit on high moral horses yet have the worse personalities and really care for no one. I feel that gay people should be able to get a job like anyone else and rent an apartment like anyone else. When it comes to legality, with the exception of marriage and adoption, I feel gay people should have pretty much the same rights as everyone else. I don’t treat gay people any differently than I treat heterosexual people. If you are kind and respectful to me, I am kind and respectful in return. What a person does in their personal lives is between them and the Creator Himself. It’s not for me to judge what happens to a person when this is all over. But...I will not ever condone what I know is wrong. And that’s with anything. Not just homosexuality. As I’ve said before, there are a lot of heterosexual immoralities as well. And I don’t condone those either. If I do something wrong, I don’t condone it.

So if someone wants to say I’m wrong for being honest, then really, (in all honesty),I just don’t care. That’s blunt, but it’s true. I really could not care less. You can call me every name in the book...it won’t sway me even a little. That’s just how I am. I’m very headstrong (and I’m used to being around and conversing and debating with headstrong people). I’m the type that if you can give me some hard facts and make sense, then you can change my point of view. It’s happened in my life before. My points of view have changed before. But, If you’re not proving anything to me and you’re not making any sense, then you truly are wasting your time. Homosexuality is wrong. Period. That’s how I feel and that’s not going to change. Now we could go on and on and on discussing this, but really what’s the point? We’d just be going around and round in circles. I’ve said before (on another thread) that I don’t mind debating as long as the debate is moving forward. But, whenever it reaches that point where I feel like I’m on a monotonous carousel, then I get off the ride and move on. I’m afraid I’m starting to feel dizzy and nauseated from the circles we’re going in. I’m starting to feel like I’m needing to exit this ride.

 

[LuisDantas]

Homosexuality is wrong (and so is incest, by the way). Yes, wrooooong. There is no getting around that.

There is nothing to get around from in the first place.

It is simply wrong, unnatural, immoral, and, quite frankly, sickening for a man to have sex with another man and/or a woman to have sex with another woman. Period. Now I’ve already stated on an exhausting number of occasions why it is wrong, unnatural, and immoral. You don’t want to hear it. You are going to disagree no matter what I say because you’re into that freaky stuff and you don’t want anyone telling you it’s wrong.

Actually, it is basically a matter of valuing basic decency and respecting other people's basic freedoms. Whether I am "into freak stuff" does not even enter the recipe.

You want it to be right so it will remain right in your eyes no matter what. You want to be in an anarchic world where anything goes and want to force right to be wrong and wrong to be right as long as it suits your needs.

It is only in your head that respecting homosexuality and transexuality equates "anarchy". If anything, one should recognize that heterosexuality is far more conductive to "anarchy" than other forms of sexuality.

The fact of the matter is that you’re in denial if you think homosexuality is okay. As a matter of fact, there have been gay people who have right out said themselves that they know that homosexuality is wrong.

There are people who feel guilty of the most harmless things, you know. And it happens far more often when bigots keep instiling pointless guilt into them.

In other words, you are wrong _and_ you lack a point.

And before you say it’s because that’s what society has made them believe, let me tell you, you’re wrong. There have been gay people that have said they always felt it was abnormal or unnatural, not because society said it was and not because their parents or families made them feel that way (some have very supportive families).

To think that you accuse us of being in denial... I wish you cared a bit more about homophoby (a real and serious problem) and less about homosexuality (ok and harmless).

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I am not homosexual but each to their own as I know of no scientific reasoning against it, only objecting to it on a religious level alone.

 

[Storm]

Transgender simply means that someone has gone through extensive medical procedures to appear and react as the opposite sex. There might be rare exceptions, but a transgendered person is a homosexual. It's one gender having an operation to appear as the opposite gender but continues to sleep with someone of the same gender. In which case, regardless of the operation, the person is still gay. I don't know about you, but I've never known for a heterosexual person to up and get a sex change and continue to have an intimate relationship with the opposite sex.

No, transgender means the person suffers Gender Identity Disorder. Look it up.

 

[tumbleweed41]

No, Peter is homosexual. He is a gay man that wants to be a woman. No operation in the world is going to actually make him a woman. It may make him resemble one, but he will never be a woman. He will never have the DNA of a woman. He will always be XY not XX. Period. He was born a man and will remain a man regardless of what he does to resemble a woman. He is a man having sex with another man. Therefore, he is gay.

Medical science disagrees with you.
But I imagine that means nothing to you in view of your dogma.

I've already covered this. Look it up.

Is that your way of saying you have nothing to back up your claim of "homosexual sex is unnatural because it can't produce babies!"?
Simply another way of promoting sex for procreation only. Which leads to logical conclusion that sterile heterosexual couples, post menopausal women, and even non-intercourse foreplay acts are "unnatural".

What a bland world you live in.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Homosexuality is wrong (and so is incest, by the way). Yes, wrooooong.

Your logic reveals a sick mind.