Mystics Only: Extended Discussion

[YmirGF]

Hiya y'all, it's that pesky devilish mouse again. The idea for this thread arose whilst reading another thread that contained an interesting discussion between TheNewReality, MetholatedGhost and Omnipresent Truth. What I propose is that we take a topic one at a time and simply state what we think about the idea itself. This is NOT meant to be a happy bash fest although I would request that those who do not consider themselves to be "mystics" to keep the thread derailments to a minimum as things are likely to get rather deep, rather quickly.

My first question is, "The modern mystic will understand that labels are essentially meaningless, but that doesn't mean some labels may well be applied regardless of our thoughts on the matter. So, the actual question is, if you do not consider yourself to be a mystic, then why not? Have you found any other meaningful label that others may appreciate?"

Note: There is no range limit on the discussions in this thread, but I will go with the consensus opinion. If everyone feels a discussion deserves a secondary thread then we can move to that one, but my thinking is to place as much knowledge into one thread, for the average reader to digest in one rather large gulp. In effect, this thread could become a repository of a kind that new "mystics" could simply chime in one adding their particular chords to the symphony of thoughts.

My second question is. "What do you think of what is termed "revelation" (in the religious context) versus "realization" in the personal context?

That ought to be enough to get the ball rolling. Let's have some fun. My last thought is though it might sound as if I am limiting discussion in this thread to a select few, and I have indeed invited about 15 people to come and take part in the discussions, but it is my hope that people in general may begin to understand that everyone is mystical to an extent and in those terms, pretty much anyone could, in theory, post away too. Got it?

"Release the hounds!"

 

[rojse]

To answer your second question, revelation is the answer to something that is revealed outside of yourself. Realization is the answer to something revealed within.

 

[doppelganger]

My first question is, "The modern mystic will understand that labels are essentially meaningless, but that doesn't mean some labels may well be applied regardless of our thoughts on the matter. So, the actual question is, if you do not consider yourself to be a mystic, then why not? Have you found any other meaningful label that others may appreciate?"

To be mystic, for me, is to be any label and no label. "Mystic" represents the awareness that labels are transient - as real or illusory as I or anyone else chooses to make them. I can find comfort with almost any label. It's just a matter of listening, understanding, drawing personal meaning and shifting perspective.

I'll be back with my answer to the second question in a bit.

 

[autonomous1one1]

Hiya y'all, ..... if you do not consider yourself to be a mystic, then why not? Have you found any other meaningful label that others may appreciate?"

Greetings YmirGF. Funny, but a thread as you are starting here to collect all of us 'types' into one has been on my mind quite a bit - glad you have begun. I would not have classified myself a mystic before coming to RF (just didn't think much about labels) but guess by most definitions 'mystic' would apply. This is true by my own definition posted in one of Sunstone's threads - mysticism is quest of the personal direct experience of realizing oneness with God. And it should be added that a mystic is one in such a quest or one living after such realization.

My second question is. "What do you think of what is termed "revelation" (in the religious context) versus "realization" in the personal context?

Revelation is one of those words that has many meanings but in my view the two, revelation and realization, are the same. Revelation in this usage is sometimes termed 'original revelation.'

 

[blackout]

To be mystic, for me, is to be any label and no label. "Mystic" represents the awareness that labels are transient - as real or illusory as I or anyone else chooses to make them. I can find comfort with almost any label. It's just a matter of listening, understanding, drawing personal meaning and shifting perspective.
[/color]
.

missed, mist, midst, mystique, mystic, mystical, majickal, mystery, mysterious....

My-stic(k). My staff? My- schtick. My thing?

The expression "life is what you make (of) it"
is true.

To SEE all of life in "sign and symbol"....
and literally transform reality,
in NEW meaning,
shifted perspective,
renewed outlook,
symbolic and active faith.....

this for me is the mysical life.

 

[doppelganger]

The expression "life is what you make (of) it"
is true.

To SEE all of life in "sign and symbol"....
and literally transform reality,
in NEW meaning,
shifted perspective,
renewed outlook,
symbolic and active faith.....

this for me is the mysical life.

To be mystic is to regain my inheritance - the power to be a co-creator, along with all the thoughts and symbols from which I sprang, of the meanings and values and symbols we share and through which we encounter one another and the universe of all our experiences.

 

[doppelganger]

My second question is. "What do you think of what is termed "revelation" (in the religious context) versus "realization" in the personal context?

"Revelation" has dual meanings - one mystic, one not. The mystic meaning is a "realization in the personal context." The non-mystic meaning of "revelation" is the idea of some "out there" source giving me information I wouldn't otherwise have.

You can look to the stars in search of the answers
Look for God and life on distant planets
Have your faith in the ever after
While each of us holds inside the map to the labyrinth
- Tracy Chapman, "Heaven's Here On Earth"

But if it takes not place in me, what avails it? Everything lies in this, that it should take place in me. - Meister Eckhart

 

[Rolling_Stone]

If you do not consider yourself to be a mystic, then why not?

I’m not sure if the term “mystic,” as commonly used, applies to me. I have a “mystical” bent, but am also of the Western tradition.

What do you think of what is termed "revelation" (in the religious context) versus "realization" in the personal context?

I think both are revelations, the one external and the latter internal. All revelation is necessarily accommodated to the audience. Considering its effect on me, The Impersonal Life is representative of the former and Paul’s revelation on the road to Damascus (or the Buddha's enlightenment) is representative of the latter.

 

[Isabella Lecour]

So, the actual question is, if you do not consider yourself to be a mystic, then why not? Have you found any other meaningful label that others may appreciate?"

I seek within.
Other than tacking an adjective to the word mystic, I don't have a better description.

My second question is. "What do you think of what is termed "revelation" (in the religious context) versus "realization" in the personal context?

It is the difference between knowing versus becoming with an interesting effect on time. Knowing is sudden like flipping on a light while becoming is like using a dimmer switch to turn the light on. And then there is the physicalness that's in question. Knowing is mental while becoming is physical and if there are quibbles....realization tends to cause physical change in the person who has the realization. Revelations on the other hand can be left alone and not acted upon physically. Which brings up the question of will....so much power both can wield..one we can ignore the other we can not.

I'll stop my blather now.

 

[blackout]

To be mystic is to regain my inheritance - the power to be a co-creator, along with all the thoughts and symbols from which I sprang, of the meanings and values and symbols we share and through which we encounter one another and the universe of all our experiences.

Ok now, you didn't COPY that out of one of my other posts... did you?!:149:

It's true!
We, who have reclaimed our inheratence
are co-creators in meaning and word and reality.
Co-creators in "improbable possibility",
in the limitless possibility of ONEder--Wonder.....
(which is MY most very favorite name for God)

I never before "tagged" this with the "label" "Mystic"....
but what an awesomely MYSTICAL life co-creatorship is!
The "mystique" of our give and take relationship,
with/in the LIVING UNIverse....
is the greatest most astounding mystery of all to me.

Co-authorship in the ONEverse.
Real Majick. The real thing.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Hiya y'all, it's that pesky devilish mouse again. The idea for this thread arose whilst reading another thread that contained an interesting discussion between TheNewReality, MetholatedGhost and Omnipresent Truth. What I propose is that we take a topic one at a time and simply state what we think about the idea itself. This is NOT meant to be a happy bash fest although I would request that those who do not consider themselves to be "mystics" to keep the thread derailments to a minimum as things are likely to get rather deep, rather quickly.

ahem... it's spelt... methylatedghosts.

But who's checking really?

My first question is, "The modern mystic will understand that labels are essentially meaningless, but that doesn't mean some labels may well be applied regardless of our thoughts on the matter. So, the actual question is, if you do not consider yourself to be a mystic, then why not? Have you found any other meaningful label that others may appreciate?"

It's nothing that I really spend too much time thinking about. I use labels only loosely so people can kind of get an idea where my PoV is coming from.

My second question is. "What do you think of what is termed "revelation" (in the religious context) versus "realization" in the personal context?

Revelation seems to me that it is a "flash-of-light" thought that then is followed by careful thought, because something else from elsewhere seems to cause it. Realisation seems to me a careful thought process that suddenly clicks and all the pieces fall together to make a complete picture that makes sense.

On a side note, I think that realisations are able to be communicated much better to others than revelations in this sense, purely because you know the thought process behind it and you know how you arrive at the... well... the realisation of it.

It is also interesting to look at the actual words.

Revelation - Reveal. something is revealed to you
realisation - realise - real. something that is percieved or made to be real by you (?)

 

[Rolling_Stone]

As an addendum to my last post, I should say that I have the sense that “revelation” is information; the result, the “miracle,” is a shift in consciousness that effectively recreates reality along the lines of a higher continuum.

 

[blackout]

I seek within.

Awesome.
The three word definition of "Mystic".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How to "become" a Mystic??

Seek Within.
So simple,
Anyone Can do it.

 

[blackout]

Revelation - Reveal. something is revealed to you
realisation - realise - real. something that is percieved or made to be real by you (?)

Perfect.
I second and ditto that.
and Yes, when you 'real'ize' something,
you make it real,
(no question mark about it!)

 

[methylatedghosts]

in the limitless possibility of ONEder--Wonder.....
(which is MY most very favorite name for God)

One I seem to use alot - although I think it's kinda tacky and cheesy, is "god is nowhere(now-here)"

 

[blackout]

One I seem to use alot - although I think it's kinda tacky and cheesy, is "god is nowhere(now-here)"

Ahhhh.... a fellow "un-speller"!
a "spell" "un-caster"!

LOL.

Creative spelling, and interpretation therein,
both REVEALS the most amazing (often double) meanings,
and exponentially expands the MEANING in our lives,
and our creative potential & spectrum of possibility.

You can say God is "nowhere" ,
and MEAN God is "now-here".
or mean both.
And at the same time you can use words
to allow others to believe whatever it is they WANT TO,
while you are operating on a WHOLE NOTHER reality plane.

It's powerful stuff.
The power of word.

 

[methylatedghosts]

'tis.

And I love pulling apart words to see if I can make them mean something else but still have the basic word

to allow others to believe whatever it is they WANT TO,
while you are operating on a WHOLE NOTHER reality plane.

some people don't need words for that....

 

[Omnipresent Truth]

Great stuff here! I'm going to add something somewhat boring to what's been previously posted.

I have never been one to try and 'pigeon hole' myself since it could/would limit where my views might go. Plus I'm still getting to grips with all the religious labels as it is (I've only really been into spiritual awakening for about 7 years now & it hasn't been continuous by any means).

Revelation & realisation has always meant the same thing to me really. Except the former being related to enjoying the resulting view, even though it's always considered to be a religious or spiritual term.

To revel in something; to take great delight or luxuriate in it.

Excellent work with the word play BTW.:yes:

 

[Rolling_Stone]

I said I am in the Western tradition and here's why:

When consciousness was not yet aware of itself in the individual, the world had no meaning and no intellectual, moral or aesthetic value. The awakening of consciousness in the individual brought discrimination, dualism and ignorance into the world. The intellect was not content to simply delight or luxuriate in the wonder of existence, for to do so would be to remain in ignorance of the world and its potential. But it went too far. It concretized dualism, made it the final reality, and wrecked the bridge between its self and the other.

As I see it, to passively accept ignorance and simply bask in the wonder of existence is a purely negative attitude and diminishes life. It makes it a mechanism. On the other hand, struggling for knowledge as a means for “conquering” life is positive, but it is also blinding.

True knowledge becomes the master of the situation by actively participating in life, by mending the bridge between the self and the One, by overcoming ignorance with knowledge, and returning good for evil.

 

[doppelganger]

Knowledge destroys and diminishes life even as it creates the illusion of building some thing - arrogance, idolatry. Unknowing is the antidote to the ignorance of knowledge and the blind arrogance that comes with it.

An amateur shouldn't work with a master's tools. He'll only cut his hands.