NATO imperialism and the Libya flood catastrophe

[Stevicus]

That's such a simplistic negative view. It ignores
how the evolution of capitalism you decry has
offered benefits, eg, much cheaper goods here.
And it could very well be that the reason Taiwan
is still independent is that China would suffer
severe economic loss if it invaded.
One thing we might agree on is that capitalism
is messier (less controlled, more chaotic) than
command economies. But we would differ
on whether that's a significant problem.

Our leadership seems more disconcerted about the state of affairs in the world at present, whether it's about Ukraine, Taiwan, North Korea. In the case of China's claim on Taiwan, that threat have always loomed in the background for decades - just as much back then as now. Yet, now, our leaders have chosen to believe that it's a more imminent threat than before.

My only point is that a lot of people seem surprised or confused when they look at the events of the world.

 

[Estro Felino]

You're allowed to say whatever you want (within the rules of the site). The First Amendment is a constitutional protection for American citizens and you're not American, so no - this has nothing to do with the First Amendment.

We have Article 21 which is the freedom of thought of Napoleonic tradition.
It's much, much bigger than the freedom guaranteed by the First Amendment.

Another example of you not having a clue what you're talking about.

I do.

I'm allowed to point out when what you say is horrible. I do not respect neofascism, nor should I. And I'm also allowed to set the boundaries of your conversations with me.

Of course... I like debating with you.
Tell me what's wrong with what I have said in this thread. In detail.

Maybe I can change my mind thanks to your guidance.

 

[Estro Felino]

That's such a simplistic negative view. It ignores
how the evolution of capitalism you decry has
offered benefits, eg, much cheaper goods here.
Such things are never 100% doom & gloom,
or all rainbows & unicorns. Gotta consider the
full picture.
And it could very well be that the reason Taiwan
is still independent is that China would suffer
severe economic loss if it invaded.
One thing we might agree on is that capitalism
is messier (less controlled, more chaotic) than
command economies. But we would differ
on whether that's a significant problem.

I detest chaos, honestly, I prefer the order and the perfect functioning of socialism.

 

[Estro Felino]

For those who want to learn about how the West destroyed Libya

 

[Revoltingest]

Our leadership seems more disconcerted about the state of affairs in the world at present, whether it's about Ukraine, Taiwan, North Korea. In the case of China's claim on Taiwan, that threat have always loomed in the background for decades - just as much back then as now. Yet, now, our leaders have chosen to believe that it's a more imminent threat than before.

You think they've chosen to believe China's threat is
more imminent than before? I suppose they've only
"chosen to believe" that China has greatly increased
both offensive military capability, & that the sorties
aimed at Taiwan have become stronger, closer, &
more frequent than before.
The country that wielded anemic SKS rifles has moved
on to aircraft carriers, latest generation fighters, hyper-
sonic cruise missiles, nuclear weapons, & possibly the
most advanced electronic warfare capability of all.

Why China could win the new global arms race

China has a long-term plan to rival the world's biggest military powers.

www.bbc.com

China’s Modernizing Military

The People’s Liberation Army is aiming to become the dominant force in the Asia-Pacific, strengthening China’s hand toward Taiwan and international disputes in the South China Sea.

www.cfr.org

 

[Revoltingest]

I detest chaos, honestly, I prefer the order and the perfect functioning of socialism.

A happy little obedient cog in a machine.

 

[Stevicus]

You think they've chosen to believe China's threat is
more imminent than before? I suppose they've only
"chosen to believe" that China has greatly increased
both offensive military capability, & that the sorties
aimed at Taiwan have become stronger, closer, &
more frequent than before.
The country that wielded anemic SKS rifles has moved
on to aircraft carriers, latest generation fighters, hyper-
sonic cruise missiles, nuclear weapons, & possibly the
most advanced electronic warfare capability of all.

Why China could win the new global arms race

China has a long-term plan to rival the world's biggest military powers.

www.bbc.com

China’s Modernizing Military

The People’s Liberation Army is aiming to become the dominant force in the Asia-Pacific, strengthening China’s hand toward Taiwan and international disputes in the South China Sea.

www.cfr.org

What did they think was going to happen back in the 1990s? Did they think that China was going to become more primitive if we started doing more and more business with them?

 

[Revoltingest]

What did they think was going to happen back in the 1990s? Did they think that China was going to become more primitive if we started doing more and more business with them?

You're missing the point about how recognizing
the reality of a situation is not merely "choosing
to believe it".
Criminy, there's a lot of not reading going on today.

 

[Stevicus]

You're missing the point about how recognizing
the reality of a situation is not merely "choosing
to believe it".
Criminy, there's a lot of not reading going on today.

And you're missing the point that the reality of the situation is exactly the same as it was in 1949, except that China is more modern now and has a more powerful military. It seems a bit disingenuous for our leaders to pretend like they weren't a threat for all those decades, and then all of sudden act like they are. As if they didn't know China would modernize its military forces.

 

[Revoltingest]

And you're missing the point that the reality of the situation is exactly the same as it was in 1949, except that China is more modern now and has a more powerful military.

It seems that your post is trying to stealthily back off
on your error of dismissing the reality of a China's
massive military expansion. I guess this is progress.
But you're still missing what China is doing with this
expanding military.

 

[Augustus]

I believe it refers to the territory once called "Ingermanland," but it's now called the Leningrad Oblast. (The city of St. Petersburg changed its name, while the Oblast retained the old name.) That's currently Russian territory. The Great Northern War involved multiple powers, so if Putin is just making a passing reference to a past war, that wouldn't mean it's a claim on Finnish territory as it stands today. Now that Finland is a member of NATO, it pretty much makes it all moot anyway, since Putin would not be so stupid as to attack a NATO country - unless he's willing to go all in for MAD.

It included the territory of NATO member Estonia.

And Putin has talked a lot about things like that, Peter the Great, Stalin, etc.

Russian parliamentarians regularly threaten Eastern NATO members, and have even threatened to nuke some of them (such as Poland).

And when you add that imperialists rhetoric to the invasion, you can’t really complain when people take your words and deeds seriously.

 

[PureX]

There almost seems to be a sense of panic in the world these days, even among the highest levels of power. The current political struggles appear to be between oligarchs, perhaps over power, wealth, resources, strategic position, or whatever it may be.

The ironic thing about all this is that, some 30 years ago when the Cold War had ended, people were talking about a new era of peace and cooperation in a capitalistic global economy, favoring free enterprise and open markets - away from the days of nationalistic protectionism. It was supposed to be an era of trust, cooperation, and friendship. Such as with China, some people argued against it, thinking it unwise, yet there are those who argued that we needed the friendship and trust of the Chinese in order to have a peaceful and economically cooperative world.

(They also talked about NAFTA around the same time and how it would be a great boom for the U.S. economy, as well as for the Mexican economy to the point where life would get so good there that there would be no more illegal border crossings. No one would have any reason to.)

So, the capitalists and leaders of the world once had big plans and high hopes in the early 1990s, but it all pretty much turned to mush in a short period of time.

Actually, I think we’re seeing the fruit of those “big plans”.

 

[Stevicus]

It seems that your post is trying to stealthily back off
on your error of dismissing the reality of a China's
massive military expansion. I guess this is progress.
But you're still missing what China is doing with this
expanding military.

No, I'm aware of China's massive military expansion. I'm also aware that our government threw caution to the four winds regarding relations with China back in the 1990s, thinking that nothing could go wrong, yet now, they seem to finally realize their error.

In other words, our government policymakers are incompetent. Do you disagree with that?

 

[Revoltingest]

No, I'm aware of China's massive military expansion. I'm also aware that our government threw caution to the four winds regarding relations with China back in the 1990s, thinking that nothing could go wrong, yet now, they seem to finally realize their error.

In other words, our government policymakers are incompetent. Do you disagree with that?

I see different incompetence.

 

[Estro Felino]

It included the territory of NATO member Estonia.

And Putin has talked a lot about things like that, Peter the Great, Stalin, etc.

Russian parliamentarians regularly threaten Eastern NATO members, and have even threatened to nuke some of them (such as Poland).

And when you add that imperialists rhetoric to the invasion, you can’t really complain when people take your words and deeds seriously.

You're mistaken.
Putin has always had so much respect towards the EU. The Baltics, Poland, Finland are in the EU.

So, if Ukraine joined the EU, it would be safe.

Putin distrusts the NATO because he knows it's driven by a man who is from Norway (Norway is not in the EU) and because the NATO is the instruments by which the overseas élites want to occupy Russia.