nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg admits and boasts about nato provoking Putin to invade

[lukethethird]

The mainstream media parroting that this invasion was "unprovoked" contradicts Jens Stoltenberg's talking points:


nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg admits and boasts about nato provoking Putin to invade here: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm?selectedLocale=en

"The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite. He has got more NATO presence in eastern part of the Alliance and he has also seen that Finland has already joined the Alliance and Sweden will soon be a full member."


It will be interesting to read your spin on this, so have at it.

 

[exchemist]

The mainstream media parroting that this invasion was "unprovoked" contradicts Jens Stoltenberg's talking points:


nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg admits and boasts about nato provoking Putin to invade here: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm?selectedLocale=en

"The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite. He has got more NATO presence in eastern part of the Alliance and he has also seen that Finland has already joined the Alliance and Sweden will soon be a full member."


It will be interesting to read your spin on this, so have at it.

I can't see either provocation or boasting in the passage you are quoting.

Can you explain where any provocation is referred to, and where you see boasting?

 

[lukethethird]

I can't see either provocation or boasting in the passage you are quoting.

Can you explain where any provocation is referred to, and where you see boasting?

You don't see how bringing missiles up to the Russian border nearest to Moscow is provocative? Interesting.

 

[ChristineM]

From what i read of the OP sounds to me that Putin laid down ultimatums that NATO wouldn't bow down to.

 

[exchemist]

You don't see how bringing missiles up to the Russian border nearest to Moscow is provocative? Interesting.

The quoted passage says nothing about missiles.

It says Putin issued a threat that unless NATO deprived the members that joined after 1997 of protection, he would invade Ukraine.

 

[Estro Felino]

Even cats have understood that they did anything to induce Putin to invade.

First by forbidding the use of the Russian language in traditionally Russian regions.
It's so cliché... come on...

Poroshenko said that sentence: our children will go to school....the Donbas children will be setting in bunkers...come on...

 

[sun rise]

The mainstream media parroting that this invasion was "unprovoked" contradicts Jens Stoltenberg's talking points:


nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg admits and boasts about nato provoking Putin to invade here: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm?selectedLocale=en

"The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite. He has got more NATO presence in eastern part of the Alliance and he has also seen that Finland has already joined the Alliance and Sweden will soon be a full member."


It will be interesting to read your spin on this, so have at it.

Putin issued an ultimatum like what Hitler did ratifying his invasion of Crimea (along with all the other territory grabs). Hitler got Europe to sign that treaty and invaded the next year. Putin has a history of invading and occupying other nations, for example Georgia on the same basis, language, that Hitler used in the beginning.

 

[lukethethird]

From what i read of the OP sounds to me that Putin laid down ultimatums that NATO wouldn't bow down to.

Western military analysts have warned for several decades that nato expansion eastward could cause a bloodbath in Ukraine and here we are. Did nato want that?

 

[lukethethird]

Putin issued an ultimatum like what Hitler did ratifying his invasion of Crimea (along with all the other territory grabs). Hitler got Europe to sign that treaty and invaded the next year. Putin has a history of invading and occupying other nations, for example Georgia on the same basis, language, that Hitler used in the beginning.

What leader would tolerate their adversaries bringing missiles up to their border?

 

[ChristineM]

Western military analysts have warned for several decades that nato expansion eastward could cause a bloodbath in Ukraine and here we are. Did nato want that?

Obviously Putin did.

 

[ChristineM]

What leader would tolerate their adversaries bringing missiles up to their border?

What leader would tolerate their adversaries invading their lands?

 

[exchemist]

Western military analysts have warned for several decades that nato expansion eastward could cause a bloodbath in Ukraine and here we are. Did nato want that?

The point is whether NATO should have refused requests to join the alliance from countries that felt threatened by Russia.

To do that would de facto acknowledge that Russia had the right to threaten and subdue these countries, at any time, as they would be defenceless. That would have been quite unacceptable, obviously.

And as events have shown, these countries were dead right about their fears, and thus about the value for them in joining NATO.

 

[Left Coast]

The mainstream media parroting that this invasion was "unprovoked" contradicts Jens Stoltenberg's talking points:


nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg admits and boasts about nato provoking Putin to invade here: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm?selectedLocale=en

"The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite. He has got more NATO presence in eastern part of the Alliance and he has also seen that Finland has already joined the Alliance and Sweden will soon be a full member."


It will be interesting to read your spin on this, so have at it.

This is like someone holding you at gunpoint to mug you, and when you refuse to give him your money and he shoots you, he says, "You MADE ME shoot you! How DARE you provoke me!"



Laughable "analysis" from the Putin apologists as usual.

 

[Revoltingest]

It will be interesting to read your spin on this, so have at it.

The spin I see (pro-Putin) is in the thread's title.

 

[Estro Felino]

This is like someone holding you at gunpoint to mug you, and when you refuse to give him your money and he shoots you, he says, "You MADE ME shoot you! How DARE you provoke me!"



Laughable "analysis" from the Putin apologists as usual.

As when Americans landed in Sicily...in 1943.
They told us: but you guys side with the Nazis ..so we had to land

 

[Estro Felino]

The spin I see (pro-Putin) is in the thread's title.

Speaking of which...I started a thread about the end of the war: Do you want the Ukrainian War to end today?
I invite you to check it out and be as outspoken as possible

 

[Revoltingest]

Speaking of which...I started a thread about the end of the war: Do you want the Ukrainian War to end today?
I invite you to check it out and be as outspoken as possible

I might.

 

[lukethethird]

I am trying to play devil's advocate here, what world leader would tolerate their adversaries bringing missiles up to their border? Playing devil's advocate does not make me a Putin apologist for those of you who are intolerant of questions.

Putin made it clear decades ago that Ukraine was a red line as any Russian leader would, nato knew this and didn't care and now here we are. Nato is a war treaty as opposed to a peace treaty and now appears to be nothing more than a self fulfilling prophecy.

I never saw Russia expanding back into Europe, in fact many countries broke away from what was the Soviet Union peacefully for the most part. Some people go so far as to claim that Russia wants to expand all the way to Berlin, based on what, I don't know. Yes, wrong to invade Ukraine, I get that much, but what brought us to this? Now that Russia is a capitalist system as opposed to communist, is the competition just too much for the west to bear? Is that why nato expanded east?

 

[Estro Felino]

Putin made it clear decades ago that Ukraine was a red line as any Russian leader would, nato knew this and didn't care and now here we are. Nato is a war treaty as opposed to a peace treaty and now appears to be nothing more than a self fulfilling prophecy.

In many EU member states, war is unconstitutional. So the NATO violates the constitutions of the members who founded it...
It was supposed to be a defensive alliance.

I never saw Russia expanding back into Europe, in fact many countries broke away from what was the Soviet Union peacefully for the most part.

This is demonstrated by Hungary's stance who has never seen today Russia as a threat. And in fact, Orbàn has invited Putin many times to his country. And Hungary won't be in on it.

Some people go so far as to claim that Russia wants to expand all the way to Berlin, based on what, I don't know.

They still live in the eighties. They are stuck in the Cold War.

 

[ChristineM]

I am trying to play devil's advocate here, what world leader would tolerate their adversaries bringing missiles up to their border? Playing devil's advocate does not make me a Putin apologist for those of you who are intolerant of questions.

Putin made it clear decades ago that Ukraine was a red line as any Russian leader would, nato knew this and didn't care and now here we are. Nato is a war treaty as opposed to a peace treaty and now appears to be nothing more than a self fulfilling prophecy.

I never saw Russia expanding back into Europe, in fact many countries broke away from what was the Soviet Union peacefully for the most part. Some people go so far as to claim that Russia wants to expand all the way to Berlin, based on what, I don't know. Yes, wrong to invade Ukraine, I get that much, but what brought us to this? Now that Russia is a capitalist system as opposed to communist, is the competition just too much for the west to bear? Is that why nato expanded east?

Ukraine became an independent country, not Putin's to red line.

I see Russia expanding into Europe...
Russian-occupied territories - Wikipedia