Natural/Unnatural

[ch'ang]

Natural and unnatural are just words to describe what we think is normal and what we think isn't. Neither of them are wrong or sinful because there are no inherent concepts of what is good and what is bad. Like MV said anything that can happen in our universe is natural, and most people classify things as unnatural if they think they are wrong or imoral

 

[Scuba Pete]

CS Lewis did a wonderful word study of Phusis and Natura.

I am by nature "human". If I do anything that is not human than I cease to be one. In this way Hitler was inhuman.

Jesus had a dual nature. He was both man and God. Understanding this gives us great insight into my Lord:

Philippians 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross! NIV

 

[mr.guy]

Netdoc, what hitler did was very human.

 

[Fluffy]

I agree with this completely. Though, I don't believe anything is unnatural. Some things occur less often than others, but it doesn't make one any more natural in essence.

Bingo...

So...what exactly is natural, anyway?

and bingo. This is exactly the right question to be asking. Furthermore if we are unable to come up with a sufficiently meaningful definition for "natural" then surely the entitlement we take on defining things as such is equally unmeaningful.

 

[Fluffy]

In this way Hitler was inhuman.

It is a contradiction in terms to suggest that a human is capable of doing something inhuman.

 

[Scuba Pete]

From www.Dictionary.com

in·hu·man (

n-hy

m

n)
adj.

1. 1. Lacking kindness, pity, or compassion; cruel. See Synonyms at cruel.
   2. Deficient in emotional warmth; cold.
2. Not suited for human needs: an inhuman environment.
3. Not of ordinary human form; monstrous.

 

[Radar]

Yeah I think I agree with that actually, I am assuming purpose and design where this is totally unnecessary.


If invisible creatures existed then this would be natural since they would have to occur in nature. Invisible powers DO exist... look up gravity for a really interesting discussion on that one .

I think what is meant is unmeasurable. Gravity can be measured therefore it is not invisible.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Natural and unnatural are just words to describe what we think is normal and what we think isn't.

That is only one very sloppy vernacular usage.

The laws of physics [laws of science] are descriptions of observed regularities. The natural world is the entirity of that which is accessible to and describable by science. The putative 'supernatural' is that which is inaccessible to scientific inquiry and arbitrarily at odds with its descriptions. A person skipping down the street with orange and purple hair may well be 'unnatural', but a person levitating down the street is another thing entirely.

 

[michel]

Merely because something is natural does not mean that it is right. Wars are natural to our species, but that doesn't make wars right. On the other hand, people often claim that something, such as homosexuality, is unnatural and therefore wrong. In my opinion, it helps in such instances to point out that homosexuality is natural and that the premiss on which they base their conclusion that it is wrong is unfounded.

Isn't there a subjective aspect to what is 'natural' and 'unnatural' ? On the equator, it is natural to have equivalent durations for night and day; at higher and lower latitudes, it is not.

In a matriarchal society, it is natural for the woman to be held in greater esteem than the man ?, whilst the converse applies in a Patriarchal society.

So, natural/unnatural have no direct connections to right and wrong (which, of course0 I agree with; but it strikes me that we do not all understand the word 'Natural' to mean the same.

 

[Radar]

It is just terms we humans use to lable things. People feel the need to put lables on things or actions so they can be catagorised or counted. This way we can track, analyse, create statistics, account for, etc. It is human nature to lable, so some choose the lables of natural and unnatural which is very natural for them, us or whomever to do.

 

[Fluffy]

The laws of physics [laws of science] are descriptions of observed regularities. The natural world is the entirity of that which is accessible to and describable by science. The putative 'supernatural' is that which is inaccessible to scientific inquiry and arbitrarily at odds with its descriptions. A person skipping down the street with orange and purple hair may well be 'unnatural', but a person levitating down the street is another thing entirely.

I agree with that except I would use my "unnatural" for that which you call "supernatural" and I would say that the person skipping down the street is still perfectly natural.

 

[mr.guy]

Radar,

The label "unatural" in this sense is an extreme statement. To call anything is such is basically to state what ought not be. For example: purple, being an afront to god, is unatural as it would not be in someone's hair without supernatural (satanic) influence. The term would denote a moral impossibility, something a "natural" person would be incapable of.

 

[Radar]

Radar,

The label "unatural" in this sense is an extreme statement. To call anything is such is basically to state what ought not be. For example: purple, being an afront to god, is unatural as it would not be in someone's hair without supernatural (satanic) influence. The term would denote a moral impossibility, something a "natural" person would be incapable of.

I see your point but it is very natural for human to color their hair, scar their bodies, get tattoos, etc. This was happening way before any religion and will continue. There is nothing unatural in our natural world. It is not unatural for people to have faith in a supernatural being or to be faithless. What it is, is a lable placed upon something by someone who does not find it normal to them.

 

[mr.guy]

What it is, is a lable placed upon something by someone who does not find it normal to them.

Not quite. This might similarly equate eccentricity with "unaturalness", in which case the label fails at its use for important social distinction. To be unatural is to be outside of the boundries of physical laws. However, if one's reverence for reality is superceded by moral authority, then all deviants must likely have supernatural assistance to breach moral laws; just as they would to spontaneously start levitating.

 

[Radar]

Not quite. This might similarly equate eccentricity with "unaturalness", in which case the label fails at its use for important social distinction. To be unatural is to be outside of the boundries of physical laws. However, if one's reverence for reality is superceded by moral authority, then all deviants must likely have supernatural assistance to breach moral laws; just as they would to spontaneously start levitating.

I fail to conect morality and nature or the natural world. Morals are learned, taught, and subjectional. Nature just is. Nature acts without thought, without emotion, without caring. Nature does not target anything or anyone in particular it just happens. Many would claim the hermaphroditism is unatural but they would be wrong. It happens naturally. And speaking of levitationg, David Blain and Chris Angel levitate, so I guess levitating could be natural if you know how to do it.

 

[michel]

I agree with that except I would use my "unnatural" for that which you call "supernatural" and I would say that the person skipping down the street is still perfectly natural.

And I would still call what you call supernatural 'natural'; just because (as Deut has pointed out) Supernatural is inaccessible to scientific inquiry and arbitrarily at odds with its descriptions, simply means that it is out of the 'scope' of science.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And speaking of levitationg, David Blain and Chris Angel levitate, so I guess levitating could be natural if you know how to do it.

Good grief!

 

[Radar]

Good grief!

What? You didn't like that?

 

[mr.guy]

I fail to conect morality and nature or the natural world. Morals are learned, taught, and subjectional.

Are morals natural? Where's the disconnect?

 

[Radar]

Are morals natural? Where's the disconnect?

Morals are a pattern of thought, thought is natural, but no certain pattern of thought is either natural or unatural. We both think, but we may not think alike or in the same pattern so your morals are no more natural or unatural to me than mine are to you. Thought being natural the pattern being neither. Does that make since?