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Nature of God

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Good to hear your reply. With all due respect I am happy for the conversation and gave you my personal perspective.

I'd like to comment on your reply to my reply. I want you to know that, it isn't in an argumentative way.

With respect.

It seems that you are not actually looking to find the real qualities of God. It appears that you want to figure out what the human word God means to people. You are attempting to define the word God within the framework of all human thoughts currently known from the deepest history on record to the widest current stream. Correct me if I'm wrong! This is how it appears to me.

If you are actually trying to know God then, perhaps you beleive everyone in history is right about God. Or everyone who thinks about God adds to the total picture. Or only the common denominators between all faiths are accurate (if there are any common denominators between them all)

But I am guessing. I know the only way to know what you beleive is to ask.

What do you beleive personally? Do you have a set beleif in God? If so what do you personally beleive?

(And/or) are you trying to know the actual God or are you trying to define the human word God?

Please don't jump to the conclusion that I am trying to get you to beleive in Yahwey. I respect you way to much for that. I am sincerely trying to understand where you are coming from.

Thank you. I am actually looking at the human aspect of God; because, I only encountered the "spiritual" aspect when I prematurely became part of the Church. I found there were a lot of core Christian beliefs that I do not agree with (it doesn't resgonate inside). I love the faith and way of devotion. I found it rude to be a part of something that I am not really a part of.

You are attempting to define the word God within the framework of all human thoughts currently known from the deepest history on record to the widest current stream. Correct me if I'm wrong! This is how it appears to me.
That's pretty much all I can do. Spiritually, God as a deity has never been a part of my worldview or belief. I don't have that "there is a Creator" feeling inside me. So, when it comes to God as a Creator of any faith, I can only interpret it by the religions set scripture, human thoughts (which I find odd to say), and listening to others and my own personal experiences in the Church. I try not to limit the Creator to the Christian faith; but, that is what I am accustomed to.
(And/or) are you trying to know the actual God or are you trying to define the human word God?
In my worldview, there isn't a "actual God". So, it would be the human word God. I don't find anything wrong with the human word God. In general (outside of my faith), we have our definitions of the nature of God no one better than the next.

My personal beliefs? I am a Nichiren Buddhist and pagan practitioner. Nichiren Buddhism is young Meyahana sect that focuses on chanting and becoming one with the Mystic Law. I guess you can compare the Mystic Law to God in that both are life and brings life in all of us. However, there are drastic differences.

Here is what Nichiren Shonin (A Buddhist monk in the 13th century) says in his collection of letters to his disciples (the Gosho) about the Mystic Law--one of the last teachings expounded by Shakyamuni Buddha. (I have abbr. it for convinence)

I have just carefully read your letter. To reply, the ultimate Law of life and death as transmitted from the Buddha to all living beings in Myoho Renge Kyo. The five characters of Myoho Renge Kyo ere transffered from Shakyamuni and Many Treasures, the two Buddhas inside the treasure tower, to Bodhisattva Superior Practices, carrying on a heritage unbroken since the remote past. Myo represents death, and ho life. Living beings that pass throught he two phases of life nad eath are entities of Myoho Renge Kyo.

Tien-tai (Nichiren's teacher) says that one should understand that living beings and their environments and the causes and effects at work within them, are all the Law of renge (the lotus). Here living beings and their environments means the phenomena of life and deaht. Thus, it is clear that, where life and death exist, cause and effect, or the Law of the lotus is at work.
To skip, he continues

Shakyamuni Buddha who attained enlightenment countless kalpals ago, the Lotus Sutra that leads all people to Buddhahood, and we ordinary humans beings are in no way different or separate from one another. To chant Myoho Renge Kyo with this realization is to inherit the ultimate Law of life and death. This is a matter of utmost importance for Nichiren's disciples and lay supporters, and this is what it means to embrace the Lotus Sutra. ~WND Ch 29 (Pg 216)

In the Lotus Sutra (one of the many scriptures of the Buddha and his disciples) it is written:

"By what means can I cause sentient being to be able to enter the highest path and quickly attain the Dharma?" LS Ch 16
Bascially, all Mahayana Buddhists are called to help people attained perfect knowledge of acceptance of life and death. The Lotus Sutra says that Shakyamuni taught each person according to their understanding or by expedient means. That would mean that if someone understands life and death through Christ then that is their way of obtaining true understanding of the Mystic Law via Christ's Passion.

In my faith, Nichiren says that the only way for one to awaken their Buddha nature (wisdom of the Buddha or Myo) is by chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo (I devote myself to the mystic law of cause and effect: Lotus Sutra).

-

I am also a pagan practitioner and have a high reverence for nature. I use holistic means of medicine, spiritual practices, healing, and the like. My Buddha nature is that of my association with nature and my interconnection with "creation" which includes all living.

When I practiced Catholicism, what I took from it was the act of cleansing, repentence, sacrifice, and being born again. I also realized that people find the same way of understanding life (resurretion) and death (crucifiction) through Christ as I do through the Mystic Law.

It is hard if not impossible to find a Creator within the Mystic Law and life. The last quote is one of my favorites that wraps up how I see God (the author is Christian with influence from native tribes around the world)

"A semion writer says 'God was in the food they ate, the water they drank, the air they breathed the earth they trod and died on. In the sleep they slept, in the dreams they dreampt. In the everywhere and the everything.' (Schaef says) Some nature cultures don't even have a word for God. It is not because God doesn't exist. It is because He is self-evidence. He is assumed. In native cultures there is no need for the word God because God Is life itself.""~Anne Wilson Shaef author of Native Wisdom for White Minds

That is how I see God. God Is life. "He" Is the Reiki, Chi,Tao,Holy Spirit, Mystic Law, and so forth.

It's hard to define the nature of God because our cultures and bias cloud the point that if God is real as a fact, he (she or it) should not need us for "him" to exist. Two and two is four everywhere aroudn the world no matter the language and ways of getting the answer to that equation. If we used a spiritual way to "solve" the nature of God, what general formula would we use that is not open for interpretation?
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
dinosaurs were front and center for a longer period than us.

maybe God was trying harder at the time .....to make something spiritual out of them.
oh to hell with it!
BOOM!....one large meteor.

Still wrong.

The Chicxulub impact was just one of many factors that caused the K-Pg extinction event. There was at least one other impact from around that time, as well as lots of volcanic activity. All these things together caused rapid climate change that most large animals couldn't adapt to.

Both impacts, like all impacts, are inevitability, anyway. The Chicxulub meteorite had been crossing Earth's orbit ever since both formed at the Solar System's birth; it was going to impact sooner or later.

Also, this might not be sinking in. Dinosaurs are still around!
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
Still wrong.

The Chicxulub impact was just one of many factors that caused the K-Pg extinction event. There was at least one other impact from around that time, as well as lots of volcanic activity. All these things together caused rapid climate change that most large animals couldn't adapt to.

Both impacts, like all impacts, are inevitability, anyway. The Chicxulub meteorite had been crossing Earth's orbit ever since both formed at the Solar System's birth; it was going to impact sooner or later.

Also, this might not be sinking in. Dinosaurs are still around!
yeah yeah, I do know....
but will never circumvent placing God in control....
even if the proving seems elusive.

are you just bound and determined there is no god?
please continue....
 

arthra

Baha'i
Regarding the nature of God.. Most of my life I've had religious institutions close by and I respect them. I also have a belief in God that has been fairly steady over the years. I believe we can only truly know God through His Messengers and Prophets.. We Baha'is call Them "Manifestations of God"...every thousand years or so there is a new Manifestation that revives the spiritual core of religion and reveals what is most needed for the era and people of the time period.

The Manifestation is an Intermediary between God and humanity or sentient life. God has revealed through Baha'u'llah what is most needed for the times we live in is my belief. what we need most today in my view is finding out how we can survive on our planet... by building a civilization that offers a representative world government.. an international court of arbitration, an elimination of racial and religious prejudices...AND A WAY TO REDUCE THE EXTREMES OF WEALTH AND POVERTY.

I believe God loves us and will not leave us alone the without Guidance we need.. So the love of God is all around us and is a constant and we can also attempt to return that love.. this also means we can love our fellows and serve and help them

The essence of God is unknowable but we can perceive His attributes around us and in our lives.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
yeah yeah, I do know....
but will never circumvent placing God in control....
even if the proving seems elusive.

are you just bound and determined there is no god?
please continue....

I'm a polytheist, not an atheist. I already explained a spiritual way in which this matter of the dinosaurs can be viewed: the Phoenix.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Regarding the nature of God.. Most of my life I've had religious institutions close by and I respect them. I also have a belief in God that has been fairly steady over the years. I believe we can only truly know God through His Messengers and Prophets.. We Baha'is call Them "Manifestations of God"...every thousand years or so there is a new Manifestation that revives the spiritual core of religion and reveals what is most needed for the era and people of the time period.

The Manifestation is an Intermediary between God and humanity or sentient life. God has revealed through Baha'u'llah what is most needed for the times we live in is my belief. what we need most today in my view is finding out how we can survive on our planet... by building a civilization that offers a representative world government.. an international court of arbitration, an elimination of racial and religious prejudices...AND A WAY TO REDUCE THE EXTREMES OF WEALTH AND POVERTY.

I believe God loves us and will not leave us alone the without Guidance we need.. So the love of God is all around us and is a constant and we can also attempt to return that love.. this also means we can love our fellows and serve and help them

The essence of God is unknowable but we can perceive His attributes around us and in our lives.
I cannot agree.....
I believe we know God by His creation.
(a creation is a reflection of it's creator)

and the angels said nothing when the Carpenter cried out....'Why have you forsaken Me?'
 

arthra

Baha'i
I cannot agree.....
I believe we know God by His creation.
(a creation is a reflection of it's creator)

and the angels said nothing when the Carpenter cried out....'Why have you forsaken Me?'


Thanks for you post "Thief"!

You don't have to agree with me but I agree you can know somethings about God "by His creation". You'll note in my post above that I mentioned that we can know some things about God through His attributes..."...we can perceive His attributes around us and in our lives."

You raise an interesting point about the Carpenter... saying 'Why have you forsaken Me?' and the "angels" said nothing. I have a somewhat different view of that and I'll try to share it with you here...Apparently He was using a "short hand" way of citing the 22nd Psalm.. In that Psalm are verses that describe His own experience in suffering for humanity...Read the 22nd Psalm and you can see some of the verses such as

by night, but I find no rest.

I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”


Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.


strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouthd]">[d] is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.


after reading this despair the Psalm becomes more positive..

I will declare your name to my people;
in the assembly I will praise you.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!


and so on.

so it's not entirely a message of despair...
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Thanks for you post "Thief"!

You don't have to agree with me but I agree you can know somethings about God "by His creation". You'll note in my post above that I mentioned that we can know some things about God through His attributes..."...we can perceive His attributes around us and in our lives."

You raise an interesting point about the Carpenter... saying 'Why have you forsaken Me?' and the "angels" said nothing. I have a somewhat different view of that and I'll try to share it with you here...Apparently He was using a "short hand" way of citing the 22nd Psalm.. In that Psalm are verses that describe His own experience in suffering for humanity...Read the 22nd Psalm and you can see some of the verses such as

by night, but I find no rest.

..

I am not dismissing the entire quote....and I thank you for your post.

Could we then further agree....as to the nature of God....

He has placed spirit in Man....and has turned him loose upon the earth.
with dominion Man shall work his will unto everything less and even unto his fellow Man.

God and heaven shall remain silent until that hour when we stand from the dust.

I am not quoting scripture in this post.
I am a rogue theologian.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Put more spiritually, Death is the Mother of Life.
Not sure if I can go that far.
I know, and it seems you do....
death is required that younger life may take hold and continue.

but that doesn't mean substance will take on life by it's own volition.
 

arthra

Baha'i
Could we then further agree....as to the nature of God....
He has placed spirit in Man....and has turned him loose upon the earth.
with dominion Man shall work his will unto everything less and even unto his fellow Man.
God and heaven shall remain silent until that hour when we stand from the dust.
I am not quoting scripture in this post.

Thanks "Thief" for shaing!..

I'm unsure of your wording here...

God "breathed" His Spirit into Adam... Our souls are from the spiritual worlds..
Rather than "...has turned him loose upon the earth..." that sounds like we were let loose in a carnival.
God provides man with guidance would be closer to my belief.
You wrote: "God and heaven shall remain silent until that hour when we stand from the dust."
God doesn't "remain silent"... His revelations continue... whether we are standing on dust or not.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Not sure if I can go that far.
I know, and it seems you do....
death is required that younger life may take hold and continue.

but that doesn't mean substance will take on life by it's own volition.

Depends on how you define "Life".
 

AllanV

Active Member
Hmm. Very interesting. God wants us to work with him. Or you mean, he will help us understand Him if we want to know Him?

It is necessary to know God and where God is and what hides knowing Him from everyone. God makes everything seen appear at every instant. The Eternal God covers himself with light as with a garment. God therefore is the energy in the atom and also the life in the cell.
The apostle Paul relates in acts 17:20,28 that we live and move and have our being in God.

All humans have a rebellious nature. The prophet Samuel said rebellion is as witchcraft.

The human rebelliousness gives each person the ability to get into the mind of others to stir up responses with associated feelings. The human mind and being is generally associated with violence and is forceful at getting what it wants. And the belief of an individual or collectively, has learned the skills to get into the subconscious. It is apparent that it is own strength of will and belief that keeps own self intact and it is exactly this that hides God and the nature of His son. Everyone is involve in something of a mental wrestle with own thoughts and implanted memories with feelings and attachments from the associations with the rebellious.

The nature of Jesus is more gentle than can be imagined but must be sought after. Bring every thought into obedience and to know the Love of God.
The reward will be immortality.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I do believe in Spirit.
nothing after death without it.

and science has requirement of definition in the physical form.
as something more the a simple chem reaction.

I don't understand what "requirement of definition" you are speaking of.
 
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