NDE: Near Death Experiences

[Estro Felino]

There are hundreds of testimonies about NDEs, that is, experiences between Life and Death. These experiences are particularly significant because most of them underline that the afterlife is not a physical place.
Almost all the people who had these experiences said that in the afterlife there is not time nor space, so you can perceive eternity and absence of limits (it's like you were present in all the places of the Universe, simultaneously.

But above all...most of them underline that the afterlife can't be neither a punishment, nor a reward. But the afterlife is entering your own soul. And nobody can deny it that there are souls filled with hatred or with love.
So a soul, according to what it is made up of, can look like either a heavenly or a hellish place.

 

[outhouse]

Pseudoscience, that has been discussed ad nausem here. Use the search function.

 

[Estro Felino]

Pseudoscience, that has been discussed ad nausem here. Use the search function.

, anyone should take in consideration these testimonies.
I understand that a rational scientist tends to deny that these testimonies are scientifically relevant. so the teller can be considered either a visionary or a crook.

 

[sun rise]

I've never had an NDE so I can't speak from experience, but what I've heard and read about matches what you've posted in starting this thread, Hay85

 

[ImmortalFlame]

well...this is a religious, not a scientific forum. However, anyone should take in consideration these testimonies.
I understand that a rational scientist tends to deny that these testimonies are scientifically relevant. so the teller can be considered either a visionary or a crook.

well...we must be surrounded by visionaries and liars, then

For me, NDE's just don't indicate anything. I can dismiss every NDE with a single word: near.

Nobody has ever actually died (that is, suffered actual brain death) and come back to life, ever, in all of human history. What NDE's are are experiences of people coming close to death, but not actually dying. As such, their experiences are most definitely not indicative of any kind of afterlife whatsoever, since none of them actually died. They can justifiably be written off as particularly vivid hallucinations or dreams.

 

[sun rise]

well...this is a religious, not a scientific forum. However, anyone should take in consideration these testimonies.
I understand that a rational scientist tends to deny that these testimonies are scientifically relevant. so the teller can be considered either a visionary or a crook.

well...we must be surrounded by visionaries and liars, then

The skeptic who believes in reductionism will of course dismiss the anecdotal evidence and insist that since consciousness is only a function of the brain then any experience must be due to an unusual brain state. But this skepticism has to stretch quite a bit to dismiss evidence like the following:

Veridical NDEs occur when the experiencer acquires verifiable information which they could not have obtained by any normal means. Often, near-death experiencers report witnessing events that happen at some distant location away from their body, such as another room of the hospital. If the events witnessed by the experiencer at the distant location can be verified to have occurred, then veridical perception would be said to have taken place. It would provide very compelling evidence that NDEs are experiences outside of the physical body. Visit the NDE and Out-Of-Body research conclusions to read a large collection of veridical NDEs.

 

[Estro Felino]

For me, NDE's just don't indicate anything. I can dismiss every NDE with a single word: near.

Nobody has ever actually died (that is, suffered actual brain death) and come back to life, ever, in all of human history. What NDE's are are experiences of people coming close to death, but not actually dying. As such, their experiences are most definitely not indicative of any kind of afterlife whatsoever, since none of them actually died. They can justifiably be written off as particularly vivid hallucinations or dreams.

Very well...but the weird thing is that they are all incredibly similar to one another.
Which is practically impossible to explain, given that dreams differ a lot from person to person. Then why aren't NDEs all different than one another, too?

 

[fantome profane]

The skeptic who believes in reductionism will of course dismiss the anecdotal evidence and insist that since consciousness is only a function of the brain then any experience must be due to an unusual brain state. But this skepticism has to stretch quite a bit to dismiss evidence like the following:

If this is believed to be true. If this comes from a reliable source. If this can be verified.

This is not evidence, this is a random claim made by somebody on the internet.

In less than 20 minutes I can create a very pretty professional looking website that claims to have multiple eye-witnesses and physical evidence of leprechauns.

 

[outhouse]

Very well...but the weird thing is that they are all incredibly similar to one another.
Which is practically impossible to explain,

No

It is easy to explain.

They are all the same because they all originate in the counscious/unconscious mind.

 

[Estro Felino]

No

It is easy to explain.

They are all the same because they all originate in the counscious/unconscious mind.

our dreams originate in the unconscious too. then why are all dreams different?

 

[outhouse]

our dreams originate in the unconscious too. then why are all dreams different?

They do not originate in the unconscious


Dont feel to bad, I thought the same thing a few years ago before I was corrected here, and learned.

Reflections on Dreaming and Consciousness | Psychology Today

The restorative processes of the organism during sleep operate in their appropriate contexts. With regard to cellular metabolism, digestion operates in the molecular realm. Emotional conflict, which operates in the realm of people and feeling, gets digested in its comparable world, a dream of people and feeling. The function of dreaming is consonant with the overall function of sleep—to restore the brain-body so it can be free and flexible to take on the next day in the most optimal way. Consequently, there is a special sleep state devoted to dreaming, REM sleep, whose function is to restore our consciousness. In REM sleep, we are in a brain-body trance state. The attention of consciousness is withdrawn from reality. Consciousness is no longer oriented through the senses or the body. Consciousness recedes from our striated muscles, so we are in a state of paralysis. Muscle tone is at its lowest ebb. Likewise, it recedes significantly from our senses so that we are not oriented by reading reality. The eyes, no longer seeing the outside world, dart back and forth—with their Rapid Eye Movements—as we see a dream. If any of the senses gets stimulated beyond a certain threshold—a loud noise, a strong light, a strong touch, even a strong smell or taste—we shift trance states back to waking.

 

[Estro Felino]

They do not originate in the unconscious


Dont feel to bad, I thought the same thing a few years ago before I was corrected here, and learned.

Reflections on Dreaming and Consciousness | Psychology Today

The restorative processes of the organism during sleep operate in their appropriate contexts. With regard to cellular metabolism, digestion operates in the molecular realm. Emotional conflict, which operates in the realm of people and feeling, gets digested in its comparable world, a dream of people and feeling. The function of dreaming is consonant with the overall function of sleep—to restore the brain-body so it can be free and flexible to take on the next day in the most optimal way. Consequently, there is a special sleep state devoted to dreaming, REM sleep, whose function is to restore our consciousness. In REM sleep, we are in a brain-body trance state. The attention of consciousness is withdrawn from reality. Consciousness is no longer oriented through the senses or the body. Consciousness recedes from our striated muscles, so we are in a state of paralysis. Muscle tone is at its lowest ebb. Likewise, it recedes significantly from our senses so that we are not oriented by reading reality. The eyes, no longer seeing the outside world, dart back and forth—with their Rapid Eye Movements—as we see a dream. If any of the senses gets stimulated beyond a certain threshold—a loud noise, a strong light, a strong touch, even a strong smell or taste—we shift trance states back to waking.

It depends on what you mean by unconscious. Unconscious is not a a scientific term, and is not something scientifically explainable. Because in biology there is not something that explains the limits of the unconscious.
So you cannot give a scientific explanation by using a non-scientific term.

 

[Skwim]

T
Almost all the people who had these experiences said that in the afterlife there is not time nor space,

I've read quite a few NDE and don't recall a single one mentioning an absence of time and space. In fact, all of them recounted their experiences in terms that would necessitate both aspects.
Just sayin'.

 

[outhouse]

So you cannot give a scientific explanation by using a non-scientific term.

Stop being ridiculous.

I gave you a scientific explanation using scientific terms.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's fun to believe in magical things and comforting to imagine that we don't cease to exist when we die. Human beings are great at creating fun and comforting delusions.

 

[George-ananda]

This is not evidence, this is a random claim made by somebody on the internet.

In less than 20 minutes I can create a very pretty professional looking website that claims to have multiple eye-witnesses and physical evidence of leprechauns.

Do you realize the website linked has the serious academic work of many respected doctors and researchers and links to voluminous documentation, books, special areas within the subject, etc, etc.. This is clearly major and seriously studied stuff and not similar to your proposed leprechaun website.

 

[Nakosis]

I've not had a NDE, however I have had other experiences. The impact of those experiences is not something I'd expect someone who hadn't experienced something similar to understand.

The reality of the experience is the reality of the individual. I don't know that it has or needs any significance to anyone else. Still people will go about explaining the testimony according to what they believe to be true. I don't know that that gets you any closer to a real answer.

Our experiences are subjective, yet that is what we have to rely on in the determination of truth.

I suppose what is important is that we try to be as objective as possible about the reality of what we ourselves experience and maybe try not to speculate quite so much on the experiences of others.

 

[Draupadi]

There are hundreds of testimonies about NDEs, that is, experiences between Life and Death. These experiences are particularly significant because most of them underline that the afterlife is not a physical place.
Almost all the people who had these experiences said that in the afterlife there is not time nor space, so you can perceive eternity and absence of limits (it's like you were present in all the places of the Universe, simultaneously.

But above all...most of them underline that the afterlife can't be neither a punishment, nor a reward. But the afterlife is entering your own soul. And nobody can deny it that there are souls filled with hatred or with love.
So a soul, according to what it is made up of, can look like either a heavenly or a hellish place.

I have read some NDE of Christians and born again ones. Some have actually seen heaven and hell. Some of their visions are compatible with the Bible and some not. But few features are common. But I have read about seeing figures and afterlife of other religions even by people not following that particular faith.

 

[Estro Felino]

Stop being ridiculous.

I gave you a scientific explanation using scientific terms.

If you had to compare your soul (or your mind, your heart, whatever it is) to a place, what place would it be?

 

[outhouse]

If you had to compare your soul (or your mind, your heart, whatever it is) to a place, what place would it be?

Souls do not exist at this point in time. They are known mythological concepts only.