New bus ad campaign draws a link between skepticism and atheism

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Seems to fit right in with their general M.O.
My general feelings towards them and their campaign is best summed up by an atheist here. I thought his description of CFI was pretty hilarious, and accurate judging from what I have seen from them.

It's CFI Canada that's putting out this ad, and IIRC, the different branches have latitude to do things their own way to a great extent. That blogger's description doesn't fit my experience with CFI... I've never been a member, but I've attended some of their events and I'm involved with the Canadian Secular Alliance, which isn't officially a CFI group, but has a lot of cross-over in membership.

No. And the atheist community constantly repeating this mantra will not make it true either.

So does that mean you believe that a skeptical approach to religious belief can lead to theism? Or is it your position that religious beliefs are exempt from a skeptical approach?

The idea that skepticism leads to atheism is based on the idea that religion can't meet its burden of proof. The only ways I see of responding to this are to say that it either has met its burden, or it doesn't have any burden to meet.

From their point of view, sure.

How about from your point of view?

 

[Willamena]

I hate ads. I'd much rather see graffiti.

*snap* Bingo!

 

[fantome profane]

I hate ads. I'd much rather see graffiti.

What is the difference?

 

[dogsgod]

It seems to me that the ads suggest a link between skepticism and atheism. Is this valid?

No. And the atheist community constantly repeating this mantra will not make it true either.

You can believe God exists, but I remain skeptical. Oh, wait a minute, that links skepticism with atheism.

 

[Riverwolf]

And what planet are you from?

The same planet you are. I just don't have a bone to pick with Christianity (or any other religion, for that matter.)

If Christ is a product, then all employees are products, because companies make tons of money off them, as well.

Therefore, calling Christ a "product" becomes meaningless.

All employees could also then be considered prostitutes, because they sell themselves to the companies. Would you consider this to be the case?

Because I consider it a twist of words.

 

[Riverwolf]

crosses

Aren't needed to believe Christ is God.

paintings

Aren't needed to believe Christ is God.

the tithe...

This will only hold weight if all Christian churches in existence make tithing mandatory... which many don't.

Not to mention, many Christians do not belong to churches, and therefore don't tithe.

yes people literally buy into the idea of christ....indeed

Many people do. Doesn't mean Christ Himself is a product. Those trinkets you mention are the products.

 

[Riverwolf]

I asked how you knew that this wouldn't reach it's target audience.

I don't "know". I suspect. I'm making a prediction based on what I know about American society.

These things only seem to be getting more popular. It's just about raising awareness, and I think it's doing that.

Believe me, I hope you're right. I just don't think you are.

And really, why do you care whether it's successful or not? The point still stands that it's this group's money to spend whatever way they see fit.

Because, like I said in the first post, these things somewhat insult me, because I associate billboards with companies advertising their products.

You don't know that. And nothing's really lost by trying.

Don't they lose money?

Advertisements are probably not the best long-term strategy, but they have a good track record of getting people's attention, and that's what they're going for at this point.

I don't know. I suspect people are seriously getting sick of ads, and are starting to ignore them.

So, we should be making movies about atheist heros? That might be a bit awkward.

There are the "His Dark Materials" books, with an overt atheistic message, but they weren't all that popular as far as I can tell.

Uh... no. Want to get people thinking? Release a bunch of films that get people thinking. The Dark Knight is one of the greatest examples of such a movie released recently.

I'm fine with multiple methods, though. I don't think it's just going to be one thing that works.

We all do our own thing to help social change. I'm an artist, so I'll stick with art.

 

[Riverwolf]

Nope, I didn't mention politics or extremists in this thread. I mentioned actions. I'm talking about the whole deal here.

Well, then, I don't know what you're talking about, because the only place I've ever seen Muslims do bad things is on the news. And since the news (all news, not just FOX) tends to be extremely biased towards one view, they all paint Islam as an evil blight on the world.

All the Muslims I've ever seen in the real world interact peacefully with non-Muslims, and on the internet, I've talked to far more tolerant Muslims than intolerant ones. (Though, yes, I've talked to a few intolerant ones, as well... and I won't use them as standards of Islam.)

Hinduism is an extremely diverse set of beliefs. Much of the loud and dogmatic ones have loud and dogmatic beliefs to go along with their actions.

Sames goes for Abrahamic religions. Except not every religion is the same. Some are inherently more dogmatic than others. For some of them, you've got to believe a given book is word-for-word from god to even be labeled a member of that religion. In another, a given creed covers like 90% of denominations or so.

Allah and Christ are characters. In different beliefs, their characters differ wildly. But if we're going to nitpick about every exception and every fringe, then we might as well not even use words, because the whole point of words to is provide a common understanding. Allah and Christ mean certain specific things to huge masses of people on this planet, and they were included in the campaign. And those specific things often include anger, judgment, wrath, caring what people do naked, caring what people do on certain days, caring what people say, etc.

And those are probably the least important things in the eyes of those who follow them. If any thing, I'd argue it's their opponents who focus more on them than the believers.

Sorry, but I won't use the WBC to judge all Christianity, nor will I use Al Qaeda to judge all Islam. That'd be like using the KKK to judge America.

The entire point of me mentioning that was to show that it fits well within the group selected. I purposely used a blunt way of describing an aspect of what millions (or billions) of people believe, even if it doesn't cover every Jew, Christian, or Muslim.

The system can be judged by what it is and still be found wanting. You can go to the source and read the holy books or ask groups of adherents of that religion what they believe.

I think you know as well as I do that different people will read different things into Holy Books. Most Muslims read peace in the Qur'an, many anti-Islamists read violence and barbarism in the Qur'an.

But that's the whole point. I don't see why you are adding unnecessary tangents to your own thread.

I didn't make this thread.

The point is that gods fit very well within that group of unproven phenomena. I used loud and dogmatic (and extremely common) ones as an example to illustrate my point, but it applies to most gods.

And I say that your illustration falls on its face, as it's based, from what I've seen, on propaganda, which is only fit to be ignored.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The same planet you are. I just don't have a bone to pick with Christianity (or any other religion, for that matter.)

If Christ is a product, then all employees are products, because companies make tons of money off them, as well.

Not the employees themselves, but their knowledge, skill, etc.

Therefore, calling Christ a "product" becomes meaningless.

All employees could also then be considered prostitutes, because they sell themselves to the companies. Would you consider this to be the case?

Unless they're having sex with their clients, no, they're not prostitutes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't know. I suspect people are seriously getting sick of ads, and are starting to ignore them.

When people find an ad interesting enough to write newspaper articles about it, it's a bit hard to justify the argument that people are ignoring it.

 

[Penumbra]

Well, then, I don't know what you're talking about, because the only place I've ever seen Muslims do bad things is on the news. And since the news (all news, not just FOX) tends to be extremely biased towards one view, they all paint Islam as an evil blight on the world.

All the Muslims I've ever seen in the real world interact peacefully with non-Muslims, and on the internet, I've talked to far more tolerant Muslims than intolerant ones. (Though, yes, I've talked to a few intolerant ones, as well... and I won't use them as standards of Islam.)

And those are probably the least important things in the eyes of those who follow them. If any thing, I'd argue it's their opponents who focus more on them than the believers.

Sorry, but I won't use the WBC to judge all Christianity, nor will I use Al Qaeda to judge all Islam. That'd be like using the KKK to judge America.

I think you know as well as I do that different people will read different things into Holy Books. Most Muslims read peace in the Qur'an, many anti-Islamists read violence and barbarism in the Qur'an.

I didn't make this thread.

And I say that your illustration falls on its face, as it's based, from what I've seen, on propaganda, which is only fit to be ignored.

This entire posts seems to be assuming that I was talking about violent Muslims, but I was not. I was talking about everyday Muslims, including all the ones that don't preach or commit violence in this life. Their Allah is an extraordinary claim, beyond things like bigfoot or UFOs, and requires extraordinary evidence.

You seemed to have read specific things from my posts that were not there, and incorrectly claimed that I mentioned them. I'm going to stick with my statements as I said them, regardless of how you've interpreted them in a narrow sense.

And btw sorry for mixing you up with the OP. Thanks for pointing out that error.

 

[Falvlun]

I don't "know". I suspect. I'm making a prediction based on what I know about American society.
Believe me, I hope you're right. I just don't think you are.

Ok. So you don't know. The problem is, you are stating your opinion as if it's a foregone conclusion, and therefore, nobody should even try this method because you know it's going to fail.

Because, like I said in the first post, these things somewhat insult me, because I associate billboards with companies advertising their products.

I really don't understand why that would make it insulting-- I understand how the message itself could be insulting-- but I don't see how utilizing advertisements to broadcast ideas is any less insulting than using advertisements to broadcast products.

Don't they lose money?

They lose it either way.

I don't know. I suspect people are seriously getting sick of ads, and are starting to ignore them.

Except that this is a different sort of ad with a "radical" message. You don't see something like this everyday.

 

[dogsgod]

Those selling the Christ product have gotten away with false advertising. Believing in your Christ product will not provide you with everlasting life, such claims are baseless.

Hopefully children will learn something from these ads, it's obviously too late for many of the life long indoctrinated adults that will never let go of their baseless beliefs no matter what.

 

[waitasec]

Oh, please. That statement would only have merit if it always cost money in order to believe in Christ.

As it stands, nobody can sell religious figures, so Christ is not a product. The Bible is a product, but most translations are available for free online. Churches make money mostly through donations, from what I understand.

So, no, Christ is not a product.

Aren't needed to believe Christ is God.

Aren't needed to believe Christ is God.

This will only hold weight if all Christian churches in existence make tithing mandatory... which many don't.

Not to mention, many Christians do not belong to churches, and therefore don't tithe.

Many people do. Doesn't mean Christ Himself is a product. Those trinkets you mention are the products.

i was responding to that false statement...
lets not forget the amusement park(s) in kentucky...
christ is a commodity

 

[Apex]

Haha. Why am I not surprised you agree with that drivel?

Haha. Why am I not surprised you would respond with a ******* comment?

 

[Riverwolf]

Not the employees themselves, but their knowledge, skill, etc.


Unless they're having sex with their clients, no, they're not prostitutes.

Exactly my point.

 

[Riverwolf]

When people find an ad interesting enough to write newspaper articles about it, it's a bit hard to justify the argument that people are ignoring it.

I thought journalists just wrote about anything that they thought they could make a good story out of, and controversial things are great pickings. Doesn't matter whether or not people are actually interested.

 

[Riverwolf]

This entire posts seems to be assuming that I was talking about violent Muslims, but I was not. I was talking about everyday Muslims, including all the ones that don't preach or commit violence in this life. Their Allah is an extraordinary claim, beyond things like bigfoot or UFOs, and requires extraordinary evidence.

You seemed to have read specific things from my posts that were not there, and incorrectly claimed that I mentioned them. I'm going to stick with my statements as I said them, regardless of how you've interpreted them in a narrow sense.

Only going by the way you defined their God. Don't mind me; I'm sick of anti-Islamic sentiments.

 

[Riverwolf]

Those selling the Christ product have gotten away with false advertising. Believing in your Christ product will not provide you with everlasting life, such claims are baseless.

So, you're going to completely ignore my points, and just repeat your argument?

 

[Riverwolf]

i was responding to that false statement...
lets not forget the amusement park(s) in kentucky...
christ is a commodity

You haven't provided much of a counter argument; all I've seen from both you and dogsgod is a "nuh-uh!"

By the way, those parks are just parks. You don't need parks to believe something to be true.

If Christ were a product, then people without money would be forbidden to be Christian.