New bus ad campaign draws a link between skepticism and atheism

[Riverwolf]

Ok. So you don't know. The problem is, you are stating your opinion as if it's a foregone conclusion, and therefore, nobody should even try this method because you know it's going to fail.

If there's a very strong chance of failure of one method, and there's a much stronger chance of success with another method, which method should be done?

I really don't understand why that would make it insulting-- I understand how the message itself could be insulting-- but I don't see how utilizing advertisements to broadcast ideas is any less insulting than using advertisements to broadcast products.

I have a knee-jerk reaction to commercials and advertisements in general. So when I see things like that, all I can think of is "they're actually treating their viewpoints like products, now?"

They lose it either way.

So why do it? If you're going to lose money for the sake of this kind of thing, take a cue from Amma and put that money into opening a free school. THAT will get people talking.

Except that this is a different sort of ad with a "radical" message. You don't see something like this everyday.

I know, and I like that.

Besides, the message isn't radical. Atheism and skepticism have been around since the dawn of time, right alongside theism.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If Christ were a product, then people without money would be forbidden to be Christian.

Christ is a product, and Christianity's marketing plan is long-term: by bringing in the parents, they'll usually get the children. And very few people have no money. In many places in the world, you'll see completely destitute villages with beautiful, ornate churches... churches that the residents paid for out of their own pocket, even though they can't afford things like clean water.

Two Catholic parishes in Toronto were recently closed because they couldn't pay their fees to the diocese. The diocese called in their debt, which bankrupted them.

 

[gnomon]

I'm personally against marketing beliefs of any kind as if they were products. It's almost insulting.

This is just a poor analogy. It's called communication. Whether or not the ideas, concepts or beliefs are communicated via a coffee shop conversation, family reunion, someone handing out fliers, typing out posts to strangers on an internet message board or a billboard it doesn't really matter.

 

[waitasec]

If there's a very strong chance of failure of one method, and there's a much stronger chance of success with another method, which method should be done?



I have a knee-jerk reaction to commercials and advertisements in general. So when I see things like that, all I can think of is "they're actually treating their viewpoints like products, now?"



So why do it? If you're going to lose money for the sake of this kind of thing, take a cue from Amma and put that money into opening a free school. THAT will get people talking.



I know, and I like that.

Besides, the message isn't radical. Atheism and skepticism have been around since the dawn of time, right alongside theism.

i know what you are saying...
the manufacturing of consent
but you see, this is the capitalistic world we live in... commercials everywhere, oozing out from every pore in society (in the western world)

someone is always "selling" something. an idea, a product, security not always purchased with money but mostly with our trust.

 

[Magic Man]

Haha. Why am I not surprised you would respond with a ******* comment?

Depending on what the asterisks stand for, it's probably because you have a biased view of me, but I'm just spitballing here.

 

[Riverwolf]

Christ is a product, and Christianity's marketing plan is long-term: by bringing in the parents, they'll usually get the children. And very few people have no money. In many places in the world, you'll see completely destitute villages with beautiful, ornate churches... churches that the residents paid for out of their own pocket, even though they can't afford things like clean water.

Two Catholic parishes in Toronto were recently closed because they couldn't pay their fees to the diocese. The diocese called in their debt, which bankrupted them.

That doesn't make Christ a product, and I don't see Christianity as a real life equivalent to the Umbrella Corp. That mindset seems to be only had by atheists who were raised by fundamentalist Christians, or believed the propaganda propagated by such people.

What you've described is Christ being exploited by greedy people.

 

[Riverwolf]

This is just a poor analogy. It's called communication. Whether or not the ideas, concepts or beliefs are communicated via a coffee shop conversation, family reunion, someone handing out fliers, typing out posts to strangers on an internet message board or a billboard it doesn't really matter.

As far as I'm concerned, atheist groups who hand out pamphlets are no different that door-to-door JWs.

Two people talking about a topic they're mutually interested in is not the same thing as a preacher handing out a flier to someone who isn't interested.

 

[Riverwolf]

i know what you are saying...
the manufacturing of consent

...what?

but you see, this is the capitalistic world we live in... commercials everywhere, oozing out from every pore in society (in the western world)

someone is always "selling" something. an idea, a product, security not always purchased with money but mostly with our trust.

Well, reason number 5 for me to dislike capitalism.

 

[gnomon]

As far as I'm concerned, atheist groups who hand out pamphlets are no different that door-to-door JWs.

Two people talking about a topic they're mutually interested in is not the same thing as a preacher handing out a flier to someone who isn't interested.

And the person interested doesn't have to take the flier. The person who doesn't like the billboards doesn't have to call the number on them.

You talk about this like you know anything about marketing. The greatest marketing of all is word of mouth. Which is friends sharing with friends. Trust me, those of us who rely on material consumption know this well. Books, toys and movies will be sold as much by word of mouth than print advertising.

And if word of mouth is such a great marketing tool than that must mean two friends sharing religious, or the lack thereof, ideas over a cup of coffee is a greater marketing tool than a billboard.

So the best way to sell something, like Christ, is to tell your friends whether they want to hear about it or not.

Or, if you live in a culture that has been predominantly hostile to your ideas (such as atheists, gays, etc.) you can put up a billboard, reach people you've never met but like might to know that there are other ideas or people who share their own ideas and these billboards can provide a non-confrontational means to spread those ideas.

Genius.

 

[Riverwolf]

And the person interested doesn't have to take the flier. The person who doesn't like the billboards doesn't have to call the number on them.

But we do have to see them. We can't just change the channel or walk away for a moment. And they're often positioned so we can't just look away, either.

You talk about this like you know anything about marketing. The greatest marketing of all is word of mouth. Which is friends sharing with friends. Trust me, those of us who rely on material consumption know this well. Books, toys and movies will be sold as much by word of mouth than print advertising.

I know. I said earlier that I don't have a problem with word of mouth.

And if word of mouth is such a great marketing tool than that must mean two friends sharing religious, or the lack thereof, ideas over a cup of coffee is a greater marketing tool than a billboard.

So why waste money on a billboard?

So the best way to sell something, like Christ, is to tell your friends whether they want to hear about it or not.

That method will lose you some friends, for sure...

My atheist friend and I have long ago silently agreed not to talk about these matters.

Or, if you live in a culture that has been predominantly hostile to your ideas (such as atheists, gays, etc.) you can put up a billboard, reach people you've never met but like might to know that there are other ideas or people who share their own ideas and these billboards can provide a non-confrontational means to spread those ideas.

Genius.

It's very confrontational. It's just as confrontational as those religious-based billboards.

It's all the same to me, and it's all insulting.

It's all, in the end, proselytizing.

 

[gnomon]

Riverwolf,

I think confrontational is highly subjective. My experience in trying to discuss Richard Dawkins with people who find him highly confrontational or aggressive often reveals that no matter what is actually said by the person it will be deemed confrontational.

Though I will admit that the particular ad in the OP is understandably confrontational to many compared to previous ads.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that some form of "advertisement" is necessary in order to communicate beyond people immediately around you.

You mention that you and your atheist friend do not talk about a particular subject. Sounds to me as if you feel like you've made up your mind and anything contrary to your opinion is pretty much out of bounds. To an extent or else you would not be on an internet forum. But if simple billboards, bus ads or similar tools that allow people from one community to reach to out to another is insulting.........well I can't really say anything to change your mind. I've been insulted by certain types of ads but not on such a wholesale level.

 

[waitasec]

...what?

noam chomsky

[youtube]OJuqoDvyXOk[/youtube]
YouTube - Noam Chomsky: Manufacturing Consent 1 of 9

 

[Riverwolf]

Riverwolf,

I think confrontational is highly subjective. My experience in trying to discuss Richard Dawkins with people who find him highly confrontational or aggressive often reveals that no matter what is actually said by the person it will be deemed confrontational.

Though I will admit that the particular ad in the OP is understandably confrontational to many compared to previous ads.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that some form of "advertisement" is necessary in order to communicate beyond people immediately around you.

You mention that you and your atheist friend do not talk about a particular subject. Sounds to me as if you feel like you've made up your mind and anything contrary to your opinion is pretty much out of bounds.

If that were the case, I wouldn't be here.

It's just that his experience with religion is very limited, whereas I've made studying it a hobby. Even if we were to discuss it, his input would naturally be limited.

To an extent or else you would not be on an internet forum. But if simple billboards, bus ads or similar tools that allow people from one community to reach to out to another is insulting.........well I can't really say anything to change your mind. I've been insulted by certain types of ads but not on such a wholesale level.

Well, in my experience, most advertising is, to an extent, false advertising. Its not much of a mystery to me why I'm such a cynic on it.

 

[Riverwolf]

noam chomsky

[youtube]OJuqoDvyXOk[/youtube]
YouTube - Noam Chomsky: Manufacturing Consent 1 of 9

I've heard of Chomsky (forget ATM exactly who he is), but I've never heard of that.

 

[waitasec]

I've heard of Chomsky (forget ATM exactly who he is), but I've never heard of that.

it's quite interesting and your post reminded me of it.