"New Heavens and New Earth" - Why Destroy the Old?

[Hockeycowboy]

I hope I'm putting this in a right forum!:

There are a few verses in the Scriptures where it talks about "new heavens and a new Earth", like at Isaiah 65:17, 2 Peter 3:13, & Revelation 21:1.

Revelation 21:1 adds, "for the former heavens and the former earth had passed away; and the sea is no more."

Could this be literal? Does this mean, according to the Scriptures, that this planet is going to be destroyed? (This contradicts Ecclesiastes 1:4.)

If you take it literally, then the physical heavens are going to be destroyed, also. By fire! (2 Peter 3:7-10) That's a lot of destruction! Why? (Have they been bad?) Where are all the good people gonna go? But, if not literal, then what could these 'heavens destroyed by fire' be?

There is much figurative language in the Bible, a lot that is symbolic.

At Ephesians 3:10, Paul likened the existing governments as being in "heavenly places". You can see the correlation: just as the physical heavens are above the Earth, so governments rule over, or are "above", society. So heavens, as seen here, can refer to governments, kingdoms, & authorities.

Are the "new heavens" referring to a "new" government? Yes. God's Kingdom. Daniel 2:44 says that God will set up "a kingdom" (i.e., the "new heavens"), it will destroy "all these other kingdoms" (the "former heavens"), and it will rule forever. This Kingdom is the same one Jesus taught his followers to pray for: "let Thy Kingdom come, let Thy will be done on Earth." This Kingdom, of which Jesus is the Ruler (Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14), is what will accomplish God's "will", or purpose, for the Earth.

Again, what about the Earth? Well, the Bible states in many places that the Earth will never be destroyed -- it is firmly established. Please read Psalms 78:69, and Psalms 104:5, and Ecclesiastes 1:4. Also, at Isaiah 45:18, God says the Earth is "firmly established", because He wants it inhabited, to fulfill His purpose with Adam's offspring. (See Psalms 115:16) Revelation 21:1 has to be understood figuratively. Otherwise, it contradicts these other Scriptures.

So then, what could be the correct understanding of "earth" in these passages? At Genesis 11:1, it says "all the Earth continued to be of one language, and one set of words." What has a language -- the planet, or people? People, of course. So, the Earth here has to be understood as referring to people --Society.

One last thing: how could the sea be no more? Life on Earth absolutely needs the oceans! Again, the Bible explains what it means by sea. If you read Isaiah 57:20, it likens wicked people to the sea. Aren't the wicked the more turbulent part of society?
If you apply this understanding to Revelation 21:1, "the sea is no more", it's actually telling us that wicked people will be "no more"! And this also agrees with Scripture.
-- Psalms 37:9-11, Psalms 37:29; Proverbs 2:21-22.

Of the many people I've spoken with over the years regarding this, all thought that this planet Earth would be destroyed. (It's not their fault, it is what they were taught.) But, really, why? There is no reason to destroy it, it's a beautiful place! What does make sense is getting rid of the wicked on it, and those who oppose God's Kingdom ruling the Earth.

Plus, look at the context of 2 Peter 3...he likens the destruction of the world of Noah's day with the destruction of "the heavens and the Earth THAT NOW EXIST." (The American Standard version says, "But the heavens that now are, and the Earth....; Byington's renders it, "But the present heavens and earth...") Obviously, Peter is not talking about the physical heavens, because he's saying the heavens existing in Noah's day were different than "the heavens that now are", "the present heavens." What was destroyed back then? It was the society of people and their forms of government, NOT the planet nor any physical heavens.



I hope this doesn't sound 'disjointed', I actually pieced parts of threads together. Plus, there are more Scriptures I could've used.
This is just to show that, when the Bible is misunderstood, then it seems to be contradictory. (If there are a LOT of misinterpretations, then it would seem to have MANY contradictions.) But when one understands what the Bible writers were saying, then it's harmony is beautiful, and makes sense.


Best wishes to all.







This info comes from

www.jw.org

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Is anyone curious about what the "fire" means when Peter said the heavens and earth will be destroyed by it?

We can discuss it.

 

[moorea944]

I hope I'm putting this in a right forum!:

There are a few verses in the Scriptures where it talks about "new heavens and a new Earth", like at Isaiah 65:17, 2 Peter 3:13, & Revelation 21:1.

Revelation 21:1 adds, "for the former heavens and the former earth had passed away; and the sea is no more."

Could this be literal? Does this mean, according to the Scriptures, that this planet is going to be destroyed? (This contradicts Ecclesiastes 1:4.)

If you take it literally, then the physical heavens are going to be destroyed, also. By fire! (2 Peter 3:7-10) That's a lot of destruction! Why? (Have they been bad?) Where are all the good people gonna go? But, if not literal, then what could these 'heavens destroyed by fire' be?

There is much figurative language in the Bible, a lot that is symbolic.

At Ephesians 3:10, Paul likened the existing governments as being in "heavenly places". You can see the correlation: just as the physical heavens are above the Earth, so governments rule over, or are "above", society. So heavens, as seen here, can refer to governments, kingdoms, & authorities.

Are the "new heavens" referring to a "new" government? Yes. God's Kingdom. Daniel 2:44 says that God will set up "a kingdom" (i.e., the "new heavens"), it will destroy "all these other kingdoms" (the "former heavens"), and it will rule forever. This Kingdom is the same one Jesus taught his followers to pray for: "let Thy Kingdom come, let Thy will be done on Earth." This Kingdom, of which Jesus is the Ruler (Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14), is what will accomplish God's "will", or purpose, for the Earth.

Again, what about the Earth? Well, the Bible states in many places that the Earth will never be destroyed -- it is firmly established. Please read Psalms 78:69, and Psalms 104:5, and Ecclesiastes 1:4. Also, at Isaiah 45:18, God says the Earth is "firmly established", because He wants it inhabited, to fulfill His purpose with Adam's offspring. (See Psalms 115:16) Revelation 21:1 has to be understood figuratively. Otherwise, it contradicts these other Scriptures.

So then, what could be the correct understanding of "earth" in these passages? At Genesis 11:1, it says "all the Earth continued to be of one language, and one set of words." What has a language -- the planet, or people? People, of course. So, the Earth here has to be understood as referring to people --Society.

One last thing: how could the sea be no more? Life on Earth absolutely needs the oceans! Again, the Bible explains what it means by sea. If you read Isaiah 57:20, it likens wicked people to the sea. Aren't the wicked the more turbulent part of society?
If you apply this understanding to Revelation 21:1, "the sea is no more", it's actually telling us that wicked people will be "no more"! And this also agrees with Scripture.
-- Psalms 37:9-11, Psalms 37:29; Proverbs 2:21-22.

Of the many people I've spoken with over the years regarding this, all thought that this planet Earth would be destroyed. (It's not their fault, it is what they were taught.) But, really, why? There is no reason to destroy it, it's a beautiful place! What does make sense is getting rid of the wicked on it, and those who oppose God's Kingdom ruling the Earth.

Plus, look at the context of 2 Peter 3...he likens the destruction of the world of Noah's day with the destruction of "the heavens and the Earth THAT NOW EXIST." (The American Standard version says, "But the heavens that now are, and the Earth....; Byington's renders it, "But the present heavens and earth...") Obviously, Peter is not talking about the physical heavens, because he's saying the heavens existing in Noah's day were different than "the heavens that now are", "the present heavens." What was destroyed back then? It was the society of people and their forms of government, NOT the planet nor any physical heavens.



I hope this doesn't sound 'disjointed', I actually pieced parts of threads together. Plus, there are more Scriptures I could've used.
This is just to show that, when the Bible is misunderstood, then it seems to be contradictory. (If there are a LOT of misinterpretations, then it would seem to have MANY contradictions.) But when one understands what the Bible writers were saying, then it's harmony is beautiful, and makes sense.


Best wishes to all.







This info comes from

www.jw.org

There are a few verses in the Scriptures where it talks about "new heavens and a new Earth", like at Isaiah 65:17, 2 Peter 3:13, & Revelation 21:1.
Revelation 21:1 adds, "for the former heavens and the former earth had passed away; and the sea is no more."

That is actually symbollic. What is God's plan and purpose with the earth and us? Numbers 14 & Hab 2.

"But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD."
"For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."

That is just some. God will never destroy the earth. He tells us that he will "set up" a coming kingdom at his son's return. "Thy kingdom come"..... and look at Dan 2.
Heavens and earth can also reprent government and peoples in scripture. Sun, moon, stars can mean figutive things too. Waters or seas can represent nations and many people or even armies. We know that in the kingdom age when Christ is here the "sea" will be a sea of glass. Calm nations, no wars. The nations of man has to be destroyed. Then we have no more seas. Meaning no more nations. Rev - God in all and in all. One nation, one king, one government, etc....

So in scripture, we have raging seas, sea of glass and no more seas. In our times, we have the raging seas.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

This info comes from

www.jw.org

I thought it read like a watchtower magazine, now I know why.

 

[Shiranui117]

Is anyone curious about what the "fire" means when Peter said the heavens and earth will be destroyed by it?

We can discuss it.

The fire is nothing less than God Himself (Hebrews 12:29). The destruction of the sea, sky and land will be like a forest fire--clearing away the old and dead so that the new can grow. The entire forest isn't obliterated in a forest fire (though it can sure look like that), it was merely pruned and cleared out.

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> perhaps this verses should be added unto those verses
as it is written
:read:
1 Corinthians 15:47
The first man is of the earth, made of dust. The second man is from heaven.
48 As is the one made of dust, such are those who are also made of dust; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 As we have borne the image of those made of dust, we willg also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 But when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then what is written will happen: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

as they say
TO GOD ALL BE THE GLORY


:ty:




godbless
unto all alway

I hope I'm putting this in a right forum!:

There are a few verses in the Scriptures where it talks about "new heavens and a new Earth", like at Isaiah 65:17, 2 Peter 3:13, & Revelation 21:1.

Revelation 21:1 adds, "for the former heavens and the former earth had passed away; and the sea is no more."

Could this be literal? Does this mean, according to the Scriptures, that this planet is going to be destroyed? (This contradicts Ecclesiastes 1:4.)

If you take it literally, then the physical heavens are going to be destroyed, also. By fire! (2 Peter 3:7-10) That's a lot of destruction! Why? (Have they been bad?) Where are all the good people gonna go? But, if not literal, then what could these 'heavens destroyed by fire' be?

There is much figurative language in the Bible, a lot that is symbolic.

At Ephesians 3:10, Paul likened the existing governments as being in "heavenly places". You can see the correlation: just as the physical heavens are above the Earth, so governments rule over, or are "above", society. So heavens, as seen here, can refer to governments, kingdoms, & authorities.

Are the "new heavens" referring to a "new" government? Yes. God's Kingdom. Daniel 2:44 says that God will set up "a kingdom" (i.e., the "new heavens"), it will destroy "all these other kingdoms" (the "former heavens"), and it will rule forever. This Kingdom is the same one Jesus taught his followers to pray for: "let Thy Kingdom come, let Thy will be done on Earth." This Kingdom, of which Jesus is the Ruler (Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14), is what will accomplish God's "will", or purpose, for the Earth.

Again, what about the Earth? Well, the Bible states in many places that the Earth will never be destroyed -- it is firmly established. Please read Psalms 78:69, and Psalms 104:5, and Ecclesiastes 1:4. Also, at Isaiah 45:18, God says the Earth is "firmly established", because He wants it inhabited, to fulfill His purpose with Adam's offspring. (See Psalms 115:16) Revelation 21:1 has to be understood figuratively. Otherwise, it contradicts these other Scriptures.

So then, what could be the correct understanding of "earth" in these passages? At Genesis 11:1, it says "all the Earth continued to be of one language, and one set of words." What has a language -- the planet, or people? People, of course. So, the Earth here has to be understood as referring to people --Society.

One last thing: how could the sea be no more? Life on Earth absolutely needs the oceans! Again, the Bible explains what it means by sea. If you read Isaiah 57:20, it likens wicked people to the sea. Aren't the wicked the more turbulent part of society?
If you apply this understanding to Revelation 21:1, "the sea is no more", it's actually telling us that wicked people will be "no more"! And this also agrees with Scripture.
-- Psalms 37:9-11, Psalms 37:29; Proverbs 2:21-22.

Of the many people I've spoken with over the years regarding this, all thought that this planet Earth would be destroyed. (It's not their fault, it is what they were taught.) But, really, why? There is no reason to destroy it, it's a beautiful place! What does make sense is getting rid of the wicked on it, and those who oppose God's Kingdom ruling the Earth.

Plus, look at the context of 2 Peter 3...he likens the destruction of the world of Noah's day with the destruction of "the heavens and the Earth THAT NOW EXIST." (The American Standard version says, "But the heavens that now are, and the Earth....; Byington's renders it, "But the present heavens and earth...") Obviously, Peter is not talking about the physical heavens, because he's saying the heavens existing in Noah's day were different than "the heavens that now are", "the present heavens." What was destroyed back then? It was the society of people and their forms of government, NOT the planet nor any physical heavens.



I hope this doesn't sound 'disjointed', I actually pieced parts of threads together. Plus, there are more Scriptures I could've used.
This is just to show that, when the Bible is misunderstood, then it seems to be contradictory. (If there are a LOT of misinterpretations, then it would seem to have MANY contradictions.) But when one understands what the Bible writers were saying, then it's harmony is beautiful, and makes sense.


Best wishes to all.







This info comes from

www.jw.org

 

[james2ko]

I hope I'm putting this in a right forum!:

There are a few verses in the Scriptures where it talks about "new heavens and a new Earth", like at Isaiah 65:17, 2 Peter 3:13, & Revelation 21:1.

Revelation 21:1 adds, "for the former heavens and the former earth had passed away; and the sea is no more."

Could this be literal? Does this mean, according to the Scriptures, that this planet is going to be destroyed? (This contradicts Ecclesiastes 1:4.)

1. I was always taught interpret literally, until proven otherwise. There are several Greek terms translated "new" in the NT. The term "new" in Rev 21:1 [kainos-G2537] is akin to something made "fresh". Kainos [new] is often contrasted with "old' [palaios](Mat 9:17; 1 Jn 2:7) . Notice it is the surface of the earth that will be burned. In other words, the "old" surface will be replaced with a fresh "new" surface, keeping Psalms 78:69, Psalms 104:5, and Ecclesiastes 1:4 from contradicting the text.

If you take it literally, then the physical heavens are going to be destroyed, also. By fire! (2 Peter 3:7-10) That's a lot of destruction! Why? (Have they been bad?) Where are all the good people gonna go? But, if not literal, then what could these 'heavens destroyed by fire' be?

2. That's right. No atmosphere as we currently know it. Which makes scientific sense in light of the fact there will be no more sea. It will truly be a whole "new" heavens (atmosphere) and earth.

There is much figurative language in the Bible, a lot that is symbolic.

At Ephesians 3:10, Paul likened the existing governments as being in "heavenly places". You can see the correlation: just as the physical heavens are above the Earth, so governments rule over, or are "above", society. So heavens, as seen here, can refer to governments, kingdoms, & authorities.

Are the "new heavens" referring to a "new" government? Yes. God's Kingdom. Daniel 2:44 says that God will set up "a kingdom" (i.e., the "new heavens"), it will destroy "all these other kingdoms" (the "former heavens"), and it will rule forever. This Kingdom is the same one Jesus taught his followers to pray for: "let Thy Kingdom come, let Thy will be done on Earth." This Kingdom, of which Jesus is the Ruler (Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14), is what will accomplish God's "will", or purpose, for the Earth.

Again, what about the Earth? Well, the Bible states in many places that the Earth will never be destroyed -- it is firmly established. Please read Psalms 78:69, and Psalms 104:5, and Ecclesiastes 1:4. Also, at Isaiah 45:18, God says the Earth is "firmly established", because He wants it inhabited, to fulfill His purpose with Adam's offspring. (See Psalms 115:16) Revelation 21:1 has to be understood figuratively. Otherwise, it contradicts these other Scriptures.

So then, what could be the correct understanding of "earth" in these passages? At Genesis 11:1, it says "all the Earth continued to be of one language, and one set of words." What has a language -- the planet, or people? People, of course. So, the Earth here has to be understood as referring to people --Society.

One last thing: how could the sea be no more? Life on Earth absolutely needs the oceans! Again, the Bible explains what it means by sea. If you read Isaiah 57:20, it likens wicked people to the sea. Aren't the wicked the more turbulent part of society? If you apply this understanding to Revelation 21:1, "the sea is no more", it's actually telling us that wicked people will be "no more"! And this also agrees with Scripture. -- Psalms 37:9-11, Psalms 37:29; Proverbs 2:21-22.

Of the many people I've spoken with over the years regarding this, all thought that this planet Earth would be destroyed. (It's not their fault, it is what they were taught.) But, really, why? There is no reason to destroy it, it's a beautiful place! What does make sense is getting rid of the wicked on it, and those who oppose God's Kingdom ruling the Earth.

Plus, look at the context of 2 Peter 3...he likens the destruction of the world of Noah's day with the destruction of "the heavens and the Earth THAT NOW EXIST." (The American Standard version says, "But the heavens that now are, and the Earth....; Byington's renders it, "But the present heavens and earth...") Obviously, Peter is not talking about the physical heavens, because he's saying the heavens existing in Noah's day were different than "the heavens that now are", "the present heavens." What was destroyed back then? It was the society of people and their forms of government, NOT the planet nor any physical heavens.

3. 2 Pet 3:5-6 is referring to the pre-adamic flood which Peter indicated were the "old" heavens and earth that were standing in and out of water (Gen 1:6). The heaven and earth that are "now" (2 Pe 3:7)) is the atmosphere and earth "after" it was renovated in Gen 1:7-10, which is what we are living under today and will be destroyed by fire.

I hope this doesn't sound 'disjointed', I actually pieced parts of threads together. Plus, there are more Scriptures I could've used. This is just to show that, when the Bible is misunderstood, then it seems to be contradictory. (If there are a LOT of misinterpretations, then it would seem to have MANY contradictions.) But when one understands what the Bible writers were saying, then it's harmony is beautiful, and makes sense. Best wishes to all.

4. I agree. Scripture does contain figurative language, but its symbolic meaning is most often plainly disclosed (Jesus' parables; Daniel's symbols). We shouldn't be too quick to assign symbolism which often sounds forced or contrived. With some patience, study, and prayer, the literal interpretation is usually not too far from our understanding and makes the most sense, IMO.

 

[psychoslice]

Its all metaphorical.

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> as it is written
:read:
Matthew 25:34
Then the King will tell those on his right hand, 'Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[Hockeycowboy]

1. I was always taught interpret literally, until proven otherwise. There are several Greek terms translated "new" in the NT. The term "new" in Rev 21:1 [kainos-G2537] is akin to something made "fresh". Kainos [new] is often contrasted with "old' [palaios](Mat 9:17; 1 Jn 2:7) . Notice it is the surface of the earth that will be burned. In other words, the "old" surface will be replaced with a fresh "new" surface, keeping Psalms 78:69, Psalms 104:5, and Ecclesiastes 1:4 from contradicting the text.



2. That's right. No atmosphere as we currently know it. Which makes scientific sense in light of the fact there will be no more sea. It will truly be a whole "new" heavens (atmosphere) and earth.



3. 2 Pet 3:5-6 is referring to the pre-adamic flood which Peter indicated were the "old" heavens and earth that were standing in and out of water (Gen 1:6). The heaven and earth that are "now" (2 Pe 3:7)) is the atmosphere and earth "after" it was renovated in Gen 1:7-10, which is what we are living under today and will be destroyed by fire.



4. I agree. Scripture does contain figurative language, but its symbolic meaning is most often plainly disclosed (Jesus' parables; Daniel's symbols). We shouldn't be too quick to assign symbolism which often sounds forced or contrived. With some patience, study, and prayer, the literal interpretation is usually not too far from our understanding and makes the most sense, IMO.

Thanks for your input!

If I may point out another Scripture (in addition to the others): Isaiah 45:18 states specifically that God created the Earth "to be inhabited". So, at Revelation 21:1, where it says "the sea is no more," it must be figurative. Life on this Earth could not exist without the oceans.

Revelation 21 is offering a fore gleam of the fulfillment of Psalms 37:9-11. "The sea" at Revelation 21:1 is figurative of the wicked....they will be "no more".

Thus, it follows that the entire phrase, including the Heavens and Earth, would have symbolic meaning in this instance. If you read Luke 21:25, you'll again recognize the sea, as mentioned there, is symbolic: Jesus' own words, speaking of nations being in anguish, "not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea."

Wicked people certainly cause a lot of problems for governments and their subjects!

Take care; hope you have peace.

 

[David1967]

Is anyone curious about what the "fire" means when Peter said the heavens and earth will be destroyed by it?

We can discuss it.

YES

 

[james2ko]

Thanks for your input!

If I may point out another Scripture (in addition to the others): Isaiah 45:18 states specifically that God created the Earth "to be inhabited". So, at Revelation 21:1, where it says "the sea is no more," it must be figurative. Life on this Earth could not exist without the oceans.

Revelation 21 is offering a fore gleam of the fulfillment of Psalms 37:9-11. "The sea" at Revelation 21:1 is figurative of the wicked....they will be "no more".

Thus, it follows that the entire phrase, including the Heavens and Earth, would have symbolic meaning in this instance. If you read Luke 21:25, you'll again recognize the sea, as mentioned there, is symbolic: Jesus' own words, speaking of nations being in anguish, "not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea."

Wicked people certainly cause a lot of problems for governments and their subjects!

Take care; hope you have peace.

Here is the literal interpretation. The New Jerusalem will "come down out of" heaven and be settled on earth (Revelation 21:2). God will dwell with the "men"/inhabitants of the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:3) on the renovated heavens and earth. Thus legitimizing Isaiah's prophecy and Psalms 37:9-11--where the meek shall truly inherit the earth. Indicating there will be life under the New Heavens and on the New Earth, similar yet different than we see today (Revelation 22:1-2).

Luke 21:25 speaks of the literal end time events that will occur prior to Christ's return. It speaks of signs in the sun and moon depicting the time the sun will be darkened and moon turned to blood/red (Revelation 6:12;8:12). The sea and waves roaring is due to a giant meteor falling into the ocean causing tidal waves and destroying sea vessels (Revelation 8:8-9). The distress of the nations is a natural consequence of these catastrophic end-time events (Zephaniah 1:15).

The symbolic interpretation seems too contrived. The literal seems more natural and logical. Shalom..

 

[Hockeycowboy]

YES

Hello Dave, hope you're having a great day!

Not in every instance, in the Bible, is fire figurative. When we read the account about the 3 Hebrews in Daniel, it was obviously literal fire that Nebuchadnezzar used to try to kill them.

But does that mean the Bible's use of fire is always literal? It would seem not.

Take Revelation 20:13-14, where it says 'death is hurled into the Lake of Fire.' Death is not something material that can be burned. (Neither is Hades (or Hell), for that matter.) It is just telling us that death, caused by sin (Romans 5:12), will be gone forever. (Because that's what fire does; when something burns up, it's never coming back!) Fire can simply be symbolic of complete destruction.

Does the Bible give further evidence of this regarding death, that it will be gone forever? The next chapter, in Revelation 21:3-4, it tells us, "death will be no more." It substantiates what Isaiah 25:8 avers.

What a marvelous time that will be! Really, part of the answer to our petition in the Lord's Prayer, "Thy will be done on earth"!


Take care....wish you the best.

 

[Oeste]

Here is the literal interpretation. The New Jerusalem will "come down out of" heaven and be settled on earth (Revelation 21:2). God will dwell with the "men"/inhabitants of the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:3) on the renovated heavens and earth. Thus legitimizing Isaiah's prophecy and Psalms 37:9-11--where the meek shall truly inherit the earth. Indicating there will be life under the New Heavens and on the New Earth, similar yet different than we see today (Revelation 22:1-2).

Luke 21:25 speaks of the literal end time events that will occur prior to Christ's return. It speaks of signs in the sun and moon depicting the time the sun will be darkened and moon turned to blood/red (Revelation 6:12;8:12). The sea and waves roaring is due to a giant meteor falling into the ocean causing tidal waves and destroying sea vessels (Revelation 8:8-9). The distress of the nations is a natural consequence of these catastrophic end-time events (Zephaniah 1:15).

The symbolic interpretation seems too contrived. The literal seems more natural and logical. Shalom..

I agree. I think the rule of thumb "If the plain sense makes sense...make no other sense" applies here.

Once a verse becomes symbolic great liberties can be taken by the interpreter of the symbolism. The following "liberty" shows the 2nd trumpet blast heralding a Saturday afternoon talk given by Joseph Rutherford in Los Angeles California on August 18-26, 1923:

Like a Burning Mountain ​

“And the second angel blew his trumpet. And something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea. And a third of the sea became blood; and a third of the creatures that are in the sea which have souls died, and a third of the boats were wrecked.” (Revelation 8:8, 9) What does this frightful scene picture?

We may best understand it against the background of the convention of Jehovah’s people held in Los Angeles, California, U.S.A., on August 18-26, 1923. The featured Saturday afternoon talk by J. F. Rutherford was on the topic “Sheep and Goats.” The “sheep” were clearly identified as those righteously disposed persons who would inherit the earthly realm of God’s Kingdom. A resolution that followed drew attention to the hypocrisy of “apostate clergymen and ‘the principal of their flocks,’ who are worldly men of strong financial and political influence.” It called on the “multitude of the peace and order loving ones in the denominational churches . . . to withdraw themselves from the unrighteous ecclesiastical systems designated by the Lord as ‘Babylon’ ” and to ready themselves “to receive the blessings of God’s kingdom.”

Doubtless, this resolution came as a result of the sounding of the second trumpet." (Revelation - It's Grand Climax Near at Hand page 134 p.8)​

It's been a while since they've visited, but as of my last "study" this was still "the truth" about the 2nd Trumpet blast. Unfortunately, it makes this "truth" one of the most monumentally forgettable occurrences to occur in modern Christian history, which begs the question as to why Revelation mentions it in the first place. I asked my study advisors what talk occurred during the 1923 Los Angeles California and no one could tell me. And if you ask anyone in "Christendom" about this "woe" all you'll get is a blank stare or an "are you okay?" look.

If the 2nd trumpet blast was symbolic, it was a "Grand Climax" nobody heard, much less remembered.

 

[Deeje]

Acts 1:6-11:
6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” (ESV)

What is the point?....if Jesus was to come again in the "same way" as he left.....it was indeed a monumental event that nobody saw or knew about, apart from his closest associates. "Monumentally forgettable" because there was nothing to indicate that it ever happened.
The world at large was unaware of what had taken place. It was to happen again.....did you miss it? We discerned many things that Christendom did not.

"Babylon the great" is about to receive her plagues and her just punishments. (Revelation 18:4-5) The Kingdom is coming...ready or not.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Take Revelation 20:13-14, where it says 'death is hurled into the Lake of Fire.' Death is not something material that can be burned. (Neither is Hades (or Hell), for that matter.) It is just telling us that death, caused by sin (Romans 5:12), will be gone forever. (Because that's what fire does; when something burns up, it's never coming back!) Fire can simply be symbolic of complete destruction.

I guess you don't know why farmers burn their land, or why people burn their lawns. They do it so it comes back greener and healthier, weed free!

 

[james2ko]

Acts 1:6-11:
6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” (ESV)

"In like manner" can be interpreted different ways. The context of this instance tells in like manner Jesus was taken up and was "seen" (He did not ascend into the clouds secretly) going up to heaven from the Mount of Olives and will return in like manner--people will see Him in the clouds and those people nearest to the Mt of Olives will see Him stand on it:

Rev_1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Zec 14:4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south​

What is the point?....if Jesus was to come again in the "same way" as he left.....it was indeed a monumental event that nobody saw or knew about, apart from his closest associates. "Monumentally forgettable" because there was nothing to indicate that it ever happened. The world at large was unaware of what had taken place. It was to happen again.....did you miss it? .

Nobody saw or knew about His ascension? His disciples saw Him. They and everyone they told, including the millions perhaps billions who read Acts 1:11, knows about it. The world at large then may not have been aware of His ascent but the scriptures are clear, they will be aware of His descent.

We discerned many things that Christendom did not. "Babylon the great" is about to receive her plagues and her just punishments. (Revelation 18:4-5) The Kingdom is coming...ready or not

I know this may be difficult for you but it is a perfect opportunity for you to review your signature line and practice what you preach:

1Co_10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.​

​

 

[james2ko]

I agree. I think the rule of thumb "If the plain sense makes sense...make no other sense" applies here.

Once a verse becomes symbolic great liberties can be taken by the interpreter of the symbolism. The following "liberty" shows the 2nd trumpet blast heralding a Saturday afternoon talk given by Joseph Rutherford in Los Angeles California on August 18-26, 1923:

Like a Burning Mountain ​

“And the second angel blew his trumpet. And something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea. And a third of the sea became blood; and a third of the creatures that are in the sea which have souls died, and a third of the boats were wrecked.” (Revelation 8:8, 9) What does this frightful scene picture?

We may best understand it against the background of the convention of Jehovah’s people held in Los Angeles, California, U.S.A., on August 18-26, 1923. The featured Saturday afternoon talk by J. F. Rutherford was on the topic “Sheep and Goats.” The “sheep” were clearly identified as those righteously disposed persons who would inherit the earthly realm of God’s Kingdom. A resolution that followed drew attention to the hypocrisy of “apostate clergymen and ‘the principal of their flocks,’ who are worldly men of strong financial and political influence.” It called on the “multitude of the peace and order loving ones in the denominational churches . . . to withdraw themselves from the unrighteous ecclesiastical systems designated by the Lord as ‘Babylon’ ” and to ready themselves “to receive the blessings of God’s kingdom.”

Doubtless, this resolution came as a result of the sounding of the second trumpet." (Revelation - It's Grand Climax Near at Hand page 134 p.8)​

It's been a while since they've visited, but as of my last "study" this was still "the truth" about the 2nd Trumpet blast. Unfortunately, it makes this "truth" one of the most monumentally forgettable occurrences to occur in modern Christian history, which begs the question as to why Revelation mentions it in the first place. I asked my study advisors what talk occurred during the 1923 Los Angeles California and no one could tell me. And if you ask anyone in "Christendom" about this "woe" all you'll get is a blank stare or an "are you okay?" look.

If the 2nd trumpet blast was symbolic, it was a "Grand Climax" nobody heard, much less remembered.

It seems like it is still being ignored to this day. JW's have been programmed to believe they are the only ones on this planet with the "truth". It is easy to translate this pompous mindset to feelings of interpretive freedom.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It seems like it is still being ignored to this day. JW's have been programmed to believe they are the only ones on this planet with the "truth". It is easy to translate this pompous mindset to feelings of interpretive freedom.

Someday, we'll all find out. Whether it was being pompous or just displaying a sureness, a confidence like the Apostles had in their teaching.

Best wishes, my cousin.

 

[james2ko]

Someday, we'll all find out. Whether it was being pompous or just displaying a sureness, a confidence like the Apostles had in their teaching. Best wishes, my cousin.

It's often the most arrogant people who defend themselves by saying they're just more confident. Much like the difference between assertiveness and aggressiveness and compassion versus niceness, confidence is internal, and arrogance is external.

Christ had internal confidence, and unfortunately much like your organization, the Pharisees had external confidence. The external confidence of the Pharisees was perfectly exemplified by Deeje's remark, "We discerned many things that Christendom did not". Shalom..