"New Heavens and New Earth" - Why Destroy the Old?

[Hockeycowboy]

Perished means --- to destroy, that nothing is left over, Like a person who dies, they perish, cease to exist. Like taking something and setting it on fire, that it perish cease to exist no more. It's gone for ever it perished.

As for 2 Peter 3:6, here we find that everything perished, cease to exist.

Unlike the flood of Noah's, we find Noah and his wife and sons and their wives and the animals all survived the flood.
So not everything perished or was destroyed.

Unlike that of 2 Peter 3:6, everything perished, was destroyed.

Show as to where in that flood
in 2 Peter 3:6 where anything survived.
Man or animals survived ?

2 Peter 3:6--"Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water Perished"

This means that everything including man and animals cease to exist. Was destroyed off the face of the Earth. Perished, Destroyed.

So many people have a tunnel vision that they can't see anything else but the flood of Noah's, So when it comes to 2 Peter 3:6, all they can see is the flood of Noah's.
When in fact 2 Peter 3:6 has nothing at all to do with the flood of Noah's.

Which this flood is not the flood of Noah's and has nothing at all to with the flood of Noah's.
If you take the flood of Noah's, for any part of it had survived, then not everything perished nor was destroyed.

But here in 2 Peter 3:6, everything perished was destroyed, that nothing
survived it. everything cease to exist.gone for ever.

The Greek Word for “world” @ 2 Peter 3:6 is ‘kosmos’; it can mean ‘arrangement’, ‘order’. Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
(It’s where we get the word, ‘cosmetics’, like make-up women use to ‘arrange’ their looks.)

The whole arrangement of things, ie., governments, society, was destroyed by the Flood in Noah’s day.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Greek Word for “world” @ 2 Peter 3:6 is ‘kosmos’; it can mean ‘arrangement’, ‘order’. Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
(It’s where we get the word, ‘cosmetics’, like make-up women use to ‘arrange’ their looks.)

The whole arrangement of things, ie., governments, society, was destroyed by the Flood in Noah’s day.

No one's disputing the word ( world )

It's all about the word ( Perished ) meaning destroyed. In the context of 2 Peter 3:6 The word ( Perished ) means everything perished out of existence. That nothing was left alive. No man, No birds, No animals, nothing.

Unlike the flood of Noah's, we find, Naoh, his wife, his sons and their wives. Animals were saved alive.

But here in 2 Peter 3:6, Nothing was saved alive. No man, No Birds. No animals,
Noth-----ing.
to ever exist again. Gone No more to ever exist again.
I don't know why your having such a hard time with the word ( Perished ) When it's very explanatory of it's self.

There are many birds and animals that no longer exist, Why ?
Because they Perished never to exist again.

We have many animals to day, that are on the verge to Perished. To never exist again.

This is what the word ( Perished ) means.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No one's disputing the word ( world )

It's all about the word ( Perished ) meaning destroyed. In the context of 2 Peter 3:6 The word ( Perished ) means everything perished out of existence. That nothing was left alive. No man, No birds, No animals, nothing.

Unlike the flood of Noah's, we find, Naoh, his wife, his sons and their wives. Animals were saved alive.

But here in 2 Peter 3:6, Nothing was saved alive. No man, No Birds. No animals,
Noth-----ing.
to ever exist again. Gone No more to ever exist again.

You missed what kosmos means: the ‘arrangement’, the ‘order’ that existed.

And that was destroyed. Grief.

 

[Faithofchristian]

You missed what kosmos means: the ‘arrangement’, the ‘order’ that existed.

And that was destroyed. Grief.

That's exactly what happen to the world that then was, it all Perished, Nothing was left alive. But all gone.

But unlike the flood of Noah's, you have Noah, his wife and his sons and their wives and the animals that were saved alive.
So not everything perished.was destroyed.

But with 2 Peter 3:6, Everything Perished, was Destroyed, that nothing was left alive.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

But with 2 Peter 3:6, Everything Perished, was Destroyed, that nothing was left alive.

No, the “world” perished...not ‘everything’.

Notice John 15:18, how the “world”, ie., kosmos, is used there.

 

[Faithofchristian]

No, the “world” perished...not ‘everything’.

Notice John 15:18, how the “world”, ie., kosmos, is used there.

Exuse me, but were not talking about
John 15:18, Let's stay with 2 Peter 3:6. And not jump from one book to another.
This is where people get mix and confused.
Because people goes about jumping from one book to another. Well I'm not going there.
So let's stay with 2 Peter 3:6.

When perished is used in the context that it's being used, it very much means everything perished.

The Verse does say ( Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water Perished) 2 Peter 3:6.

That means everything perished.
Otherwise your going to have to show in that Verse where everything did not Perished.

Because by what the verse indicates, (the world that then was being overflowed with water Perished) That means Everything Perished.

 

[Notaclue]

No, the “world” perished...not ‘everything’.

Notice John 15:18, how the “world”, ie., kosmos, is used there.

Gen.1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Rev.21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


What about the waters above the firmament?


God created a new Heaven and a new Earth, he didn't say new Waters!


Peace.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Exuse me, but were not talking about
John 15:18, Let's stay with 2 Peter 3:6. And not jump from one book to another.
This is where people get mix and confused.
Because people goes about jumping from one book to another. Well I'm not going there.
So let's stay with 2 Peter 3:6.

When perished is used in the context that it's being used, it very much means everything perished.

The Verse does say ( Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water Perished) 2 Peter 3:6.

That means everything perished.
Otherwise your going to have to show in that Verse where everything did not Perished.

Because by what the verse indicates, (the world that then was being overflowed with water Perished) That means Everything Perished.

What?! I’m sorry, but you have to examine other verses that use the same translated word — in this case, “kosmos” as “world” — to see what the Bible writers meant! (Otherwise, we’re only espousing our POV, and not the intent of the writers of the Bible, ie, truth. Our understanding would be wrong, ie., a lie.)

Jesus said, ‘the world (kosmos) would hate his followers’ @ John 15:18. That is not how you understand the word, ‘world’...but it’s the same word.

So-long....there’s no need to further this.

 

[Faithofchristian]

What?! I’m sorry, but you have to examine other verses that use the same translated word — in this case, “kosmos” as “world” — to see what the Bible writers meant! (Otherwise, we’re only espousing our POV, and not the intent of the writers of the Bible, ie, truth. Our understanding would be wrong, ie., a lie.)

Jesus said, ‘the world (kosmos) would hate his followers’ @ John 15:18. That is not how you understand the word, ‘world’...but it’s the same word.

So-long....there’s no need to further this.

Nope not at all, seeing our conversation is about 2 Peter 3:6 and nothing else and no other books.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It seems quite reasonable, but I think understanding these things is dependent on identifying the eagles.

i guess I missed this point, my brother. Sorry.

Explain your point, please.

 

[nPeace]

i guess I missed this point, my brother. Sorry.

Explain your point, please.

Hey brother. It's no problem.
You are feeding with the eagles - Matthew 24:45 ...which are gathered with the body - 1 Corinthians 12:12, 13
How would we understand otherwise?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hey brother. It's no problem.
You are feeding with the eagles - Matthew 24:45 ...which are gathered with the body - 1 Corinthians 12:12, 13
How would we understand otherwise?

Got it! Thanks.

 

[rrobs]

Again, what about the Earth? Well, the Bible states in many places that the Earth will never be destroyed -- it is firmly established. Please read Psalms 78:69, and Psalms 104:5, and Ecclesiastes 1:4. Also, at Isaiah 45:18, God says the Earth is "firmly established", because He wants it inhabited, to fulfill His purpose with Adam's offspring. (See Psalms 115:16) Revelation 21:1 has to be understood figuratively. Otherwise, it contradicts these other Scriptures.

Much of the OT is written in the prophetic future. Wikipedia says the following,

"The prophetic perfect tense is a literary technique used in the Bible that describes future events that are so certain to happen that they are referred to in the past tense as if they already happened"
​

Prophetic perfect tense - Wikipedia

​

Psalm 8:6 is a perfect example,

Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet:
​

While it may be tempting to say all things are right now, this very day, under the feet of Jesus, it is not actually the case. There is little doubt that right now Satan is called the "god of this world" (2 Cor 4:4) which means just what it says, Satan rules over this present world (lucekly for everybody, Christians constrain him). He is called, "the prince of the power of the air" (Eph 2:2). There are others, but hopefully these two are sufficient to make my point.

So here we have an apparent contradiction. One verse , in the OT, says all things are under the feet of Jesus Christ. But there are a few in the NT (god of this world, etc) that say quite the opposite. What are we to do? Well, let's take a look at a verse in Hebrews.

Heb 2:8,

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing [that is] not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
​

The first sentence is quoted from Psalms 8:6. The second sentence intensifies that which the first said. The third sentence is the answer. The key is the words, "but now" which means, not the OT, nor the future as outlined in Revelations. "Now" is this present age of grace which stands between the OT (including the gospels) and the events in Revelations. This age of grace was hidden in God and not revealed until God told Paul (Romans 16:25-26, Eph 1:9, Eph 3:9, Col 1:26, et. al.).

The OT is God dealing primarily with Israel. He promised them a kingdom. They would have received that kingdom had they not had Jesus crucified by the Romans. But they did (specifically much of their leadership), and therefore the promised kingdom is left unfulfilled. The story of God and His dealings with Israel can be understood by reading from the end of the gospel of John straight to the book of Revelations (also Daniel, Ezekiel, et. al.), just skipping over everything from the book of Acts to Jude. It makes for a complete story of how God will fulfill the promises He made to Israel.

The mystery I mentioned above that was hidden in God from before the foundation of the world is another story altogether. This age of grace was kept secret for one huge reason. We, in this present age of grace, have something Israel never had. We have Christ in us.

Col 1:25-27,

25 Whereof I (Paul) am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now (age of grace after Pentecost) is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom (us, not just Israel) God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
​

Every born again believer has Christ in them. No wonder Jesus told us we would do the works he did (John 14:12). When Jesus was here there was one Jesus for the devil to worry about. Now, thanks to him having killed Jesus, there are millions upon millions of Christs walking the earth. Too bad many don't know about the power they have, but the devil never knows when they might discover it, and the Christians who do know the power they have are enough to tie the devil up into a nice tight knot!

It may seem as though I'm digressing, but I just wanted to make the point that when God gave Israel the scriptures they contained nada, zip, zero, regarding our present age of grace. That is why I said we can get the story of Israel by reading from John's gospel right on to Revelations. Our present age was secret, about which they knew nothing. The apostles thought Jesus was going to the father after his resurrection only to return soon to finish the job he came to do, i.e. "put all things under his feet." They didn't know there would be such a prolonged period of time before Jesus returned. It was a secret hidden in God, so how could they have known?

That should make it easy to understand why things are not yet actually under his feet as it says in Hebrew 2:8.

All the verses that speak of the everlasting earth are from the OT. If they are taken as the prophetic future tense, then all contradictions about some verses saying the earth will be destroyed and others saying it is established forever disappear. All the verses that speak of God and Jesus Christ having complete dominion, as well as the earth being established forever, are speaking of the future when Jesus returns to finally put down the devil and the new heavens and new earth are created. The old ones can burn to a crisp and there will be no contradictions. Once this heaven and earth are dissolved, God will create new ones and they will indeed fit all God said about being everlasting, etc. in the scriptures you mentioned

 

[rrobs]

An example of God using the prophetic future:

Isa 5:13,

Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because [they have] no knowledge: and their honourable men [are] famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.
​

The verse says that God's people "are gone into captivity" which is not literally true. It was actually some time before they were actually carried away. But as far as God was concerned it was as good as done when He spoke it.

Rom 4:17,

(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.​

 

[OtherSheep]

God affirmed His purpose for the Earth @ Isaiah 45:18, 'God wants it inhabited.' And life on Earth needs the oceans to survive. So when Revelation 21:1 states "the sea is no more," it can't be literal. It is symbolic of the wicked......Isaiah 57:20 likens the "wicked" to the "sea".

The wicked will be "no more." In other words, Jehovah God's purpose for the Earth (Matthew 6:9-10) will be fulfilled. --Proverbs 2:20-22; Revelation 11:18; Isaiah 11:6-9

Edit: if "sea" was literal, Revelation 21:1 would (probably) say "the seas are no more."

Revelation 11:18 "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Revelation 11:18 "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

That's right! This is a beautiful planet...God wants to protect it. It makes no sense to destroy it, it's done nothing wrong.

It's like if you built a wonderful condominium; if your tenants started tearing the place apart, ie., kicking in the walls, tearing out light fixtures, would you burn the place down to get rid of them? No! You'd evict them, and find others who would respect it.

 

[rrobs]

Revelation 11:18 "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Rev 11:18,

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.​

According to Greek texts: destroy = diaphtheiro = to thoroughly corrupt, thoroughly ruin, thoroughly pervert. It is used in the Septuagint version of Genesis.

Gen 6:11,

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.​

The people in Genesis did not cause the earth to melt. Instead they caused it to corrupt.

I don't think Revelations 11:18 is talking about the elements being melted and the heavens (sky) being dissolved as it says it will be in 2 Peter 3:12. There is no man that can do that, so this verse must be speaking of something else. The very elements, the building blocks of matter, and the sky itself will be destroyed by intense heat of some sort.

 

[rrobs]

That's right! This is a beautiful planet...God wants to protect it. It makes no sense to destroy it, it's done nothing wrong.

It's like if you built a wonderful condominium; if your tenants started tearing the place apart, ie., kicking in the walls, tearing out light fixtures, would you burn the place down to get rid of them? No! You'd evict them, and find others who would respect it.

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Gen 3:17-19,

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
​

I wouldn't necessarily call such a place beautiful. It's OK, but not really my cup of tea. The new one sounds much better.

Even condos get to the point where kicking out the tenets wouldn't be enough. Sooner of later they degrade to the point where demolition and rebuilding becomes necessary. I think the earth arrived at that point in Genesis chapter 3. Besides, the heavens and the earth are altogether different than a condo, and God doesn't necessarily think like a condo developer.

The new one will have no sun or moon.

Rev 21:23,

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
​

The new earth will have no sun or moon. Well, that makes for something radically different than what we currently have. It really looks to me like the whole universe will be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. Sure looks like more than a remodel job in any case.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Gen 3:17-19,

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
​

I wouldn't necessarily call such a place beautiful. It's OK, but not really my cup of tea. The new one sounds much better.

Even condos get to the point where kicking out the tenets wouldn't be enough. Sooner of later they degrade to the point where demolition and rebuilding becomes necessary. I think the earth arrived at that point in Genesis chapter 3. Besides, the heavens and the earth are altogether different than a condo, and God doesn't necessarily think like a condo developer.

The new one will have no sun or moon.

Rev 21:23,

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
​

The new earth will have no sun or moon. Well, that makes for something radically different than what we currently have. It really looks to me like the whole universe will be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. Sure looks like more than a remodel job in any case.

Ecclesiastes 1:4

 

[Hockeycowboy]

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Gen 3:17-19,

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
​

I wouldn't necessarily call such a place beautiful. It's OK, but not really my cup of tea. The new one sounds much better.

Even condos get to the point where kicking out the tenets wouldn't be enough. Sooner of later they degrade to the point where demolition and rebuilding becomes necessary. I think the earth arrived at that point in Genesis chapter 3. Besides, the heavens and the earth are altogether different than a condo, and God doesn't necessarily think like a condo developer.

The new one will have no sun or moon.

Rev 21:23,

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb [is] the light thereof.
​

The new earth will have no sun or moon. Well, that makes for something radically different than what we currently have. It really looks to me like the whole universe will be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. Sure looks like more than a remodel job in any case.

Revelation 21:5 says God is "making all things new", not 'all new things.'