metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
There are I believe 17 names for God as found in Hebrew in the Tanakh, and none of them read "Jehovah", which is a mistranslation of "YHWH".
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New Testament - can someone help please
- Thread starter Te Reweti Wharepapa
- Start date
We can believe whatever we like about ourselves....but we are not the judges of what is acceptable to Christ. When his final judgment is handed down, there will be a lot of those who claim Jesus as their "Lord", doing what they think is acceptable to him....but they will be mighty disappointed. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Please provide evidence for this "jerking the text around" and I will show you who is teaching the 'lies of the devil".
I am sure we have covered this subject before metis, but just in case you may have forgotten.....
According to Exodus 3:13-15 ASV...." And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? What shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I am that I am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I am hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, [YHWH] the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations"
The God of Israel had many titles, but only one personal name.....YHWH is not a name shared by any other being in existence. This is his exclusive name forever....the one by which he is to be remembered for all time.
In the Jewish Bible the meaning of God's is given a clearer translation. When English translations render his name to mean "I Am" they are not giving it its full and proper meaning.
In the Jewish Bible it reads...."Moshe said to God, “Look, when I appear before the people of Isra’el and say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you’; and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what am I to tell them?” 14 God said to Moshe, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I am/will be what I am/will be],” and added, “Here is what to say to the people of Isra’el: ‘Ehyeh [I Am or I Will Be] has sent me to you.’” 15 God said further to Moshe, “Say this to the people of Isra’el: ‘Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [Adonai], the God of your fathers, the God of Avraham, the God of Yitz’chak and the God of Ya‘akov, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever; this is how I am to be remembered generation after generation."
The meaning of God's name is broader than simply a statement of his existence. By the time Moses wrote about the situation stated in Exodus 3:13-15, the Israelites already knew that God existed. They existed as a separate people among the Egyptians, but now found themselves under harsh slavery in the land to which Patriarch Jacob had brought them.
The broader meaning conveyed in Hebrew was "I will be what I will be". This is God conveying the thought that he can "be" or "become" whatever he needs to be in order to accomplish his purpose. He 'became' their deliverer....their savior...a fulfiller of his promises.
When removing the personal name of God from their scriptures, the Jews lost the pronunciation of the most precious name in existence.....if this was to be God's name "forever" then by whose authority did the Jews decide that it could no longer be spoken or written? By failing to hold God's name as "hallowed" (set apart, holy) and using it in the same way that the Bible writers did, (with reverence and honor) the Jews set the scene for the apostate Christians to also fail to call on that name for their salvation. (Joel 2:32)
At Romans 10:13 it says...."for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
"Christians" today are taught that this is the name of "the Lord" Jesus, but that is not what Paul said. It was YHWH who sent Jesus to this earth on his mission. Many things were accomplished in the name of Jesus, but it was YHWH who sent him and it was YHWH's teachings that he taught. He accomplished none of it on his own. (John 7:16)
In Joel 2:32 (from which Paul quoted) it says...."And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered."
So it is on Jehovah's name that we must call for salvation, implementing all of Jesus' teachings in our daily lives....not picking and choosing what we will believe or practice, and what we won't.
Men have a lot to answer for when translating scripture....especially when it comes to the name of God, as used throughout the Hebrew scriptures. Who authorized a substitution of almost 7,000 references to YHWH in the Hebrew writings?
Psalm 83:18 clearly states that YHWH (Jehovah) is "the Most High over all the earth" there is not another name that is higher.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
God has 1 name-YHWH--the name that translated to Jehovah.
In the available bible translations on earth prior to the 1960,s had the name Jehovah in it.Psalm 83:18)
Some blind guides and scholars even try to say-Elohim is a name and it is NOT. It is a Hebrew word that carries various meanings. But NEVER plural as gods for the true living God-EVER. Yet the blind guides and those scholars will not teach the reality on this matter--They are deceivers.
We can believe whatever we like about ourselves....but we are not the judges of what is acceptable to Christ. When his final judgment is handed down, there will be a lot of those who claim Jesus as their "Lord", doing what they think is acceptable to him....but they will be mighty disappointed. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Matthew 7:21-23 is with respect to the false prophet who will "prophesy in your name", perform "miracles", "call on the "Lord", and "cast out demons", and "practice lawlessness". That would be pointing at the "ravenous" wolf who came in "sheep's clothing" (Matthew 7:15) & (Genesis 49:27), and that would be the son of Benjamin, Paul. The followers of Peter and Paul are addressed in Matthew 7:24-27, whereas if don't heed "these words of mine", such as that you heed others, your house will "fall", because it was built on sand, or in this case, little pebbles, which are called petros, in the Greek language. The followers of the false prophet will be more than a little disappointed, for their "lawlessness" will lead to "cast into the furnace of fire, in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41-42). One needs to call on the "LORD" (Joel 2:32), not call on the "Lord". You are chasing rainbows along a dry sandy creek bed.
The "ravenous wolves" that Jesus mentioned are the "weeds" that he said were 'planted by the devil'. These were fake Christians bent on leading the flock away from Christ's teachings.
In case you haven't noticed, the devil is a mimic....a very clever one. God sets up a true religion, the devil sets up fake ones...lots of them just to make sure that everyone is confused.
God sets up a kingdom to rule mankind with the best ruler imaginable, and the devil sets up a man-made fake that will lead the world into chaos.
When he can't mimic, he tries to water down God's standards so that people offend God without meaning to in a lot of cases. The lack of morality in this world is in direct contrast with God's standards of morality. People are conditioned to accept it.
The scripture you quoted goes on to say....“Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men."
Please tell me what rotten fruit was produced by Paul or Peter? Both were willing to suffer for their faith.
The "cramped and narrow road" is not one traveled alone. All Christians have to be traveling it together, giving encouragement to one another and helping each other, showing brotherly love. (John 13:34-35) Never compromising.
Who is your brotherhood? Who are your fellow Christians?
Sand is in grains, not pebbles, so that is a complete distortion of Jesus' words as far as I can see.
"In Jesus’ illustration of the sower, the Greek adjective pe·troʹdes (related to the noun peʹtros) is used to describe the rocky places upon which some of the seed fell. (Matthew 13:3-5, 20)
Peʹtros is used as a proper name, “Peter.” (John 1:42) On the meaning of this term Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 4, p. 76) remarks: “Petros denotes a piece of a rock, a detached stone or boulder, in contrast to petra, a mass of rock.”
Word Studies in the New Testament says about peʹtros: “In classical Greek the word means a piece of rock, as in Homer, of Ajax throwing a stone at Hector, . . . or of Patroclus grasping and hiding in his hand a jagged stone.”—By M. Vincent, 1957, Vol. I, p. 91."
Rock — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Your version is pretty twisted stuff IMO. Petros has nothing to do with sand. You are even disparaging the very apostle that Jesus entrusted with "feeding" his sheep. (John 21:15-17) That is a very serious offense.
This is the fire of Jehovah's anger. In order to be weeping and gnashing their teeth, these ones have to be alive. Since there is no such place as a "fiery hell", it must mean a condition of extreme angst, experienced in the flesh. The 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' done by the Pharisees happened when Jesus rightly denounced them as the hypocrites that they were. Though physically "alive" they were "spiritually" dead from God's viewpoint. There are many today who are exactly like them. I will let Jesus be the judge though.
I believe that those who correspond with the Pharisees today, are the clergy of Christendom. The "weeds" (tares) sown by the devil were the ones who were rearing their wolfish heads even in the apostolic period. When the last apostle John penned his final contribution to scripture, the weeds took over and the foretold apostasy began with little resistance. The religious empire created by the devil is all worship that does not have God's approval. He has probably hoodwinked about 99% of what we see in the world...everything from the fanatical to the worst slackers....they are all his. The atheists he doesn't need to win over...he already has them.
As I have mentioned before, the "LORD" in the Hebrew scriptures has a unique name. Translated into English, it is Jehovah or Yahweh. (YHWH)
No one who worships a nameless "Lord" will ever be calling on his name. We are not told to call on a title, but the name that Jehovah gave to himself and revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15. This name was his "forever", yet neither Jew nor Muslim nor "Christians" will use it, despite calling Abraham their "father".
God's people have always been a nation....a congregation of people who all shared their beliefs in common and were taught by those appointed to do so. Who teaches you? Where do you meet with your 'brothers and sisters'?
Perhaps it is you who need a paddle in that creek you have created in your own mind?
The "ravenous wolves" that Jesus mentioned are the "weeds" that he said were 'planted by the devil'. These were fake Christians bent on leading the flock away from Christ's teachings.
In case you haven't noticed, the devil is a mimic....a very clever one. God sets up a true religion, the devil sets up fake ones...lots of them just to make sure that everyone is confused.
God sets up a kingdom to rule mankind with the best ruler imaginable, and the devil sets up a man-made fake that will lead the world into chaos.
When he can't mimic, he tries to water down God's standards so that people offend God without meaning to in a lot of cases. The lack of morality in this world is in direct contrast with God's standards of morality. People are conditioned to accept it.
The scripture you quoted goes on to say....“Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.
Please tell me what rotten fruit was produced by Paul or Peter? Both were willing to suffer for their faith.
The "cramped and narrow road" is not one traveled alone. All Christians have to be traveling it together, giving encouragement to one another and helping each other, showing brotherly love. (John 13:34-35) Never compromising.
Who is your brotherhood? Who are your fellow Christians?
Sand is in grains, not pebbles, so that is a complete distortion of Jesus' words as far as I can see.
"In Jesus’ illustration of the sower, the Greek adjective pe·troʹdes (related to the noun peʹtros) is used to describe the rocky places upon which some of the seed fell. (Matthew 13:3-5, 20)
Peʹtros is used as a proper name, “Peter.” (John 1:42) On the meaning of this term Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 4, p. 76) remarks: “Petros denotes a piece of a rock, a detached stone or boulder, in contrast to petra, a mass of rock.”
Word Studies in the New Testament says about peʹtros: “In classical Greek the word means a piece of rock, as in Homer, of Ajax throwing a stone at Hector, . . . or of Patroclus grasping and hiding in his hand a jagged stone.”—By M. Vincent, 1957, Vol. I, p. 91."
Rock — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Your version is pretty twisted stuff IMO. Petros has nothing to do with sand. You are even disparaging the very apostle that Jesus entrusted with "feeding" his sheep. (John 21:15-17) That is a very serious offense.
This is the fire of Jehovah's anger. In order to be weeping and gnashing their teeth, these ones have to be alive. Since there is no such place as a "fiery hell", it must mean a condition of extreme angst, experienced in the flesh. The 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' done by the Pharisees happened when Jesus rightly denounced them as the hypocrites that they were. Though physically "alive" they were "spiritually" dead from God's viewpoint. There are many today who are exactly like them. I will let Jesus be the judge though.
I believe that those who correspond with the Pharisees today, are the clergy of Christendom. The "weeds" (tares) sown by the devil were the ones who were rearing their wolfish heads even in the apostolic period. When the last apostle John penned his final contribution to scripture, the weeds took over and the foretold apostasy began with little resistance. The religious empire created by the devil is all worship that does not have God's approval. He has probably hoodwinked about 99% of what we see in the world...everything from the fanatical to the worst slackers....they are all his. The atheists he doesn't need to win over...he already has them.
As I have mentioned before, the "LORD" in the Hebrew scriptures has a unique name. Translated into English, it is Jehovah or Yahweh. (YHWH)
No one who worships a nameless "Lord" will ever be calling on his name. We are not told to call on a title, but the name that Jehovah gave to himself and revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15. This name was his "forever", yet neither Jew nor Muslim nor "Christians" will use it, despite calling Abraham their "father".
God's people have always been a nation....a congregation of people who all shared their beliefs in common and were taught by those appointed to do so. Who teaches you? Where do you meet with your 'brothers and sisters'?
Perhaps it is you who need a paddle in that creek you have created in your own mind?
The “tare seed” planted by the “evil one” (Matthew 13:25), are contrasted to the “wheat seed”, which is the Yeshua’s gospel, which is the “word of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:19). The “tare seed” is the gospel of Paul, the gospel of the cross, which tells you that you have been “released from the Law”, and is his a gospel of lawlessness. (Romans 7:6).
As for the narrow way, “few” that do find it, and they find it by seeking, and not among the “many” which find the “broad” “way” to destruction” (Matthew 7:13-14). Following a crowd leads to "destruction".
The “rotten fruit” is the fruit of Paul’s church. You will know the tree is rotten, such as the prophets of the church are rotten, by sampling the fruit/deeds of the church members. The fruit of Peter’s church, the pope’s church, are best illustrated by the Inquisitions. The fruit of Paul’s church, the Protestant churches, can best be seen in the Pogroms of Europe.
The term ravenous wolf is prefaced in Genesis 49:27, whereas it refers to those of the tribe of Benjamin, the tribe Paul says is his tribe.
As for having bad intentions, no one says you have bad intentions, you are simply apparently numbered among the “many” of Matthew 7:13, who have been deceived by the “beast with two horns like a lamb”, Constantine, and his two Christ like leaders, Peter and Paul, who are the foundation of his Roman church.
As for the term petros, you don't build on a foundation of pebbles.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
As mentioned numerous times before, "Jehovah" is not the same as "YHWH", both in spelling and pronunciation, plus you ignore the basic fact that other names are used for God as found in Hebrew in the Tanakh. See: Names of God - Wikipedia
But of course your JW leaders didn't teach you that, instead lying to you. It is entirely hypocritical for them to use "Jehovah" instead if "YHWH" while also not recognizing the other names used in the Tanakh and then blaming other denominations for doing what they're doing.
So, why do you blindly believe in them and not actually do some of the research on your own?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
False. "Eloheim" is used as a name for God, but it is always used in conjunction with singular modifiers and has never been interpreted as referring to other deities.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
100% fact--Elohim is not a name--Liars say it is, check the facts and stop believing the darkness.It is a Hebrew word with various meanings--NEVER a name.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Well:
Elohim (Hebrew: אֱלֹהִים ’ĕlōhîm [ʔɛloːˈhim]) is one of the many names or titles for God in the Hebrew Bible; the term is also used in the Hebrew Bible to refer to other gods...
Elohim occurs frequently throughout the Torah. In some cases (e.g. Exodus 3:4, "... Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush ..."), it behaves like a singular noun in Hebrew grammar, and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel...
Elohim is used as the name of God in the Elohist (E) and Priestly (P) sources, while the name Yahweh is used in the Jahwist (J) source...
Elohim, when meaning the God of Israel, is mostly grammatically singular, and is commonly translated as "God", and capitalised. For example, in Genesis 1:26, it is written: "Then Elohim (translated as God) said (singular verb), 'Let us (plural) make (plural verb) man in our (plural) image, after our (plural) likeness'". Wilhelm Gesenius and other Hebrew grammarians traditionally described this as the pluralis excellentiae (plural of excellence), which is similar to the pluralis majestatis (plural of majesty, or "Royal we").-- Elohim - Wikipedia
Now, kwj47, a truly moral person would apologize for calling someone a "liar" when it's clear it is you that is wrong, but my guess is that you won't be able to bring yourself to ever do that. What you wrote is based on your ignorance of the scriptures and your continued judgementalism towards others that's in defiance of what Jesus and Paul taught.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
I wasn't saying you were the liar--the source is the liar. Elohim is NOT Gods personal name--YHWH is.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And it is you who is lying because this is what you wrote in response to my post: "100% fact--Elohim is not a name--Liars say it is, check the facts and stop believing the darkness."
Now notice that I do not call you a "liar" but you clearly are "lying", and it's quite clear that you don't even have the moral fiber to apologize. And, as long as you just parrot your JW leaders instead of doing the research, you will forever be just blindly be led by the nose.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
70,000 religions on earth--all did the research--yet live in confusion.
I guess you are correct--I said those saying Elohim is Gods personal name are lying--So if you say that, I guess I did include you in that statement. And I know 100% for sure that is not his personal name, thus cannot apologize for a statement of fact.
That doesn't mean one lies on purpose, It just means they say something and believe it yet are in error. It can go either way. YHWH(Jehovah) will show all of us.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
So, you do finally admit that you lied, and yet you rant & rave about everyone else supposedly lying even when it's been shown you that "Eloheim" definitely was one of the names for God.
You have shown your colors, kjw47, so maybe find a Christian denomination that teaches you that lying is morally wrong and apologizing when you screw up is morally right.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
If you add missing vowels to the YHWH consonants, you don't get "Jehovah".
kjw47
Well-Known Member
In the post-Temple era it became the practice to not speak the Tetragrammaton. Instead the word Adonai (lord) was substituted when reading scripture aloud. To reinforce this practice, in the Masoretic Text the word was given the vowel points for Adonai. This would come out something like Yehovah if one attempted to pronounce it. The Y sound was rendered as J when German scholars wrote, because that is how J is pronounced in German. Y is rarely used in that language. In English the J is pronounced as J, not Y. And so today's Jehovah.
This is from memory. Corrections welcome.