New Texas bill would force school to out gay students.

[fantome profane]

New Texas bill would force school to out gay students.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-s...rton-controversial-bill-schools-gay-students/

In an op-ed about the Forth Worth guidelines, Burton said: “Our schools are a place of learning; they are not replacements for the support and love of the family.”

The proposal has roused opposition from LGBTQ advocates.

“Until kids are not kicked out of their house for being gay or transgender, and until kids are not being beaten by parents for being gay or transgender, we owe it to kids to protect them,” Steven M. Rudman, chairman of Equality Texas, said in a statement. “We believe Sen. Burton’s legislation would essentially destroy protected communications between a student and an educator.”

Is this bill a good idea? Is this in the best interest of the students? Is this bill intended to protect students, or is it intended to protect parents? Will this bill interfere with a student's ability to get counselling?

This bill might make it less likely that a student who feels the need to talk to someone will seek out a teacher or counsellor at their school. One of the main stresses on young teen LGBTQ students is how to come out to their parents and family. This might be the very issue they might want to talk to someone at the school about. How would they feel if they went to a counsellor to discuss their difficulty in telling their parents, and the counsellor just goes ahead and immediately tells the parents. If they are stressed out about this they will not go get counselling, and some of them need it. I think this bill is a terrible idea.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Wouldn't that violate some high-up privacy laws?
It's a terrible idea, I can't think of a single good thing about it.
There are obviously some not so well hidden motives behind this.

I would support optional polling, but that's as far as I'd ever care to go.

 

[SomeRandom]

Awful bill. Reminds me of scumbag "journalists" who out gay people for kicks.

 

[Skwim]

This isn't about gay students, as the title says, but transgender students. Not the same thing. And there is no bill. The only action is "recently announced new guidelines for faculty and staff on the handling of its transgender student population." And it only affects those schools in the Fort Worth Independent School District, not any other part of Texas. The thrust of Konni Burton's piece is that the public had no input in establishing the guidelines, and it should have. Here's the basics of the ruling.

"Dr. Scribner and his executive team created the new transgender student guidelines through the use of "administrative regulations," a rule-making process that does not require action by the publicly elected Board of Trustees. Without the need for a vote by the Board, there was no organized forum for an open debate on the merits of the new policies.​

These new guidelines require the recognition of the preferred gender identity of the student, the use of the pronoun he or she prefers, accommodations for the use of bathroom and locker room facilities and participation in the physical education of their preferred gender identity. These guidelines will affect all students, not just transgender students, and to act as if they do not need public and parental input is quite alarming."
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From how I've read her piece, and assuming nothing important has been left out, the ruling sounds fairly reasonable. And for what it's worth, this happened six months ago. Since then things have changed a bit





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[Laika]

This isn't about gay students, as the title says, but transgender students. Not the same thing. And there is no bill. The only action is "recently announced new guidelines for faculty and staff on the handling of its transgender student population." And it only affects those schools in the Fort Worth Independent School District, not any other part of Texas. The thrust of Konni Burton's piece is that the public had no input in establishing the guidelines, and it should have. Here's the basics of the ruling.

"Dr. Scribner and his executive team created the new transgender student guidelines through the use of "administrative regulations," a rule-making process that does not require action by the publicly elected Board of Trustees. Without the need for a vote by the Board, there was no organized forum for an open debate on the merits of the new policies.​

These new guidelines require the recognition of the preferred gender identity of the student, the use of the pronoun he or she prefers, accommodations for the use of bathroom and locker room facilities and participation in the physical education of their preferred gender identity. These guidelines will affect all students, not just transgender students, and to act as if they do not need public and parental input is quite alarming."
​

From how I've read her piece, and assuming nothing important has been left out, the ruling sounds fairly reasonable. And for what it's worth, this happened six months ago.





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The way I read the article, the proposed bill is a response to these guidelines?

 

[Skwim]

The way I read the article, the proposed bill is a response to these guidelines?

I didn't see a thing about any bill. Care to point it out?


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[Laika]

I didn't see a thing about any bill. Care to point it out?


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Senate Bill 242, Link to the bill text:

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/pdf/SB00242I.pdf#navpanes=0

 

[Kemosloby]

Schools should not be involved with peoples personal lives. So there should be no special provisions encouraging them to do so.

 

[SomeRandom]

Schools should not be involved with peoples personal lives. So there should be no special provisions encouraging them to do so.

Well. Umm, schools generally have to be involved in people's personal lives. Because they have a duty of care to ensure the students' health and mental well being is taken care of (ideally.) Why do you think there's Councillors employed on the staff? So the kids can go to someone to help them with personal issues.

 

[Kemosloby]

Well. Umm, schools generally have to be involved in people's personal lives. Because they have a duty of care to ensure the students' health and mental well being is taken care of (ideally.) Why do you think there's Councillors employed on the staff? So the kids can go to someone to help them with personal issues.

Fire the councellors and stop wasting tax payer money. If the kid needs a doctor or advice, he can suck it up a few hours and get help after school.

 

[SomeRandom]

Fire the councellors and stop wasting tax payer money. If the kid needs a doctor or advice, he can suck it up a few hours and get help after school.

You do realize that in addition to providing counselling, Councillors also provide assistance with future pathways (education advice, career advice etc) and often act as mediators if fights break out, not to mention provide assistance to bullied students. Councillors are a highly important part of school life. Getting rid of them is like getting rid of a school nurse. Like that's just asking for trouble.

 

[Kemosloby]

You do realize that in addition to providing counselling, Councillors also provide assistance with future pathways (education advice, career advice etc) and often act as mediators if fights break out, not to mention provide assistance to bullied students. Councillors are a highly important part of school life. Getting rid of them is like getting rid of a school nurse. Like that's just asking for trouble.

Keep them for education and career advice, Keep the school nurse for injuries. I would think any adult could break up a fight or act as a mediator or send a bully to the principals office. It's just common sense. There would be more trouble as a result of replacing common sense.

 

[SomeRandom]

Keep them for education and career advice, Keep the school nurse for injuries. I would think any adult could break up a fight or act as a mediator or send a bully to the principals office. It's just common sense. There would be more trouble as a result of replacing common sense.

Well it's more complicated than that. Numerous teachers have been injured as a result of trying to break up fights. I mean there are sometimes drugs involved. Not even trained medical staff can always do that and get away without injuring themselves.
And no, not just any adult can be a mediator. A teacher by default has to be able to control a classroom. Their training is different to that of a Councillor. They have to be authoritative, that doesn't always translate into an effective mediator. Besides they have other priorities, like they can't do freaking every job.
A bully is usually given counselling because a school should first determine if it's a discipline issue or something more serious, like an abusive home life. Getting a bully to first control their anger and iron out any personal issues is preferable to simply disciplining them. At that age they are still salvageable (not always but still.)
The way a school runs is simply more sophisticated nowadays to go without addressing mental health concerns. Or rather they should be by now.

 

[Kemosloby]

Well it's more complicated than that. Numerous teachers have been injured as a result of trying to break up fights. I mean there are sometimes drugs involved. Not even trained medical staff can always do that and get away without injuring themselves.
And no, not just any adult can be a mediator. A teacher by default has to be able to control a classroom. Their training is different to that of a Councillor. They have to be authoritative, that doesn't always translate into an effective mediator. Besides they have other priorities, like they can't do freaking every job.
A bully is usually given counselling because a school should first determine if it's a discipline issue or something more serious, like an abusive home life. Getting a bully to first control their anger and iron out any personal issues is preferable to simply disciplining them. At that age they are still salvageable (not always but still.)
The way a school runs is simply more sophisticated nowadays to go without addressing mental health concerns. Or rather they should be by now.

As you see the methods schools are using are ineffective and discipline has become more than the staff can handle. More authority and less mediators, there is no middle ground on school fights. Social engineering, or raising children should not be a responsibility of the school. Teaching the prescribed subjects should be their limitations, and using whatever discipline is necessary to maintain a safe and orderly environment.

 

[Skwim]

Senate Bill 242, Link to the bill text:

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/pdf/SB00242I.pdf#navpanes=0

Thank you. I didn't recognize fantome profane's remark, "New Texas bill would force school to out gay students." as a link to anything, and took his "In an op-ed about the Forth Worth guidelines, Burton said: “Our schools are a place of learning; they are not replacements for the support and love of the family” to be the germ of the issue.


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[metis]

Schools should not be involved with peoples personal lives. So there should be no special provisions encouraging them to do so.

Fire the councellors and stop wasting tax payer money. If the kid needs a doctor or advice, he can suck it up a few hours and get help after school.

Wow, how compassionate! Tell me, exactly how would you fit that into the Sermon On the Mount?

As a parent, a grandparent, and a former educator, so many students need help nowadays. My son, who suffers from bipolar disorder, twice tried to commit suicide but confided in a high school counselor whereas that contact probably saved his life. . Today he is a 43 and owns his own company.

Maybe consider putting our young people and their future and our future as a humane country ahead of money?

 

[Laika]

Thank you. I didn't recognize fantome profane's remark, "New Texas bill would force school to out gay students." as a link to anything, and took his "In an op-ed about the Forth Worth guidelines, Burton said: “Our schools are a place of learning; they are not replacements for the support and love of the family.” To be the germ of the issue.


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Its cool. I had to re-read the article a few times to check. So nothing to worry about.

 

[Kemosloby]

Wow, how compassionate! Tell me, exactly how would you fit that into the Sermon On the Mount?

As a parent, a grandparent, and a former educator, so many students need help nowadays. My son, who suffers from bipolar disorder, twice tried to commit suicide but confided in a high school counselor whereas that contact probably saved his life. . Today he is a 43 and owns his own company.

Maybe consider putting our young people and their future and our future as a humane country ahead of money?

He was just trying to get out of class. Those are a lot of probably's, And like Lyrnyrd Skynyrd song says " suicidal not man enough to die", I don't think God made it easy to off yourself, people generally opt to stay alive, councellor or no councellor.

 

[metis]

He was just trying to get out of class. Those are a lot of probably's, And like Lyrnyrd Skynyrd song says " suicidal not man enough to die", I don't think God made it easy to off yourself, people generally opt to stay alive, councellor or no councellor.

What a truly pathetic and calloused response that is.

 

[fantome profane]

Thank you. I didn't recognize fantome profane's remark, "New Texas bill would force school to out gay students." as a link to anything, and took his "In an op-ed about the Forth Worth guidelines, Burton said: “Our schools are a place of learning; they are not replacements for the support and love of the family” to be the germ of the issue.


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Maybe I should adjust my posting style. I do it that way because it looks cleaner, but if it helps people to actually see the http code I will start including that as well.