Nice Going Governor.. 15 an hour for Fast Food Workers across the State of New York. oh boy.....

[Revoltingest]

That's the opposite of my work experience.
All my bosses had done my job before, & many were still doing it, ie the same work.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's the opposite of my work experience.
All my bosses had done my job before, & many were still doing it, ie the same work.

I've had bosses who have done the job, but they aren't the one making policy decisions. But the only time I've worked with a boss who ran things, worked with the workers, and also made the decisions was roofing for a friend's dad.

 

[SomeRandom]

That sounds like everywhere I've ever worked. Even at the university library, where the new Chancellor made us extend Sunday hours by two hours, because apparently some nursing students complained and said we aren't open late enough, even though there is hardly anyone ever in the library on a Sunday. Or a few companies whose higher ups failed to realize that lying to your workers and telling them what they want to hear, rather than being honest about the situation, does not motivate them. Or even in fast food where the higher ups do not realize you can't do all of the stuff for a closing in less than a half-hour (or, at least none of them I've been at), especially on a busy night.

Boffins boffins everywhere it seems. *sigh*

 

[Lyndon]

Must be nice to have a "conscience" that allows you to hate poor people and want to condemn them to perpetual poverty, all so the bosses can make a fast buck at the workers expense. The American way, capitalism in action!!

 

[Revoltingest]

Must be nice to have a "conscience" that allows you to hate poor people and want to condemn them to perpetual poverty, all so the bosses can make a fast buck at the workers expense. The American way, capitalism in action!!

Those "fast" bucks aren't fast or easy enuf for me.
I'll have to work on that.
Anyway, criticize capitalism all you want, but I don't see anyone flocking to countries which eschew it.
It's really the other way around....their emigrants are better called "escapees".

 

[suncowiam]

Must be nice to have a "conscience" that allows you to hate poor people and want to condemn them to perpetual poverty, all so the bosses can make a fast buck at the workers expense. The American way, capitalism in action!!

Those "fast" bucks aren't fast or easy enuf for me.
I'll have to work on that.
Anyway, criticize capitalism all you want, but I don't see anyone flocking to countries which eschew it.
It's really the other way around....their emigrants are better called "escapees".

I for one, know definitely the grass is not greener on the other side.

Communism took away my family's estate, which forced my family to flee to another country. And it wasn't even huge by any standards.

Of all the folks that you think would want hand-outs, are refugees that had nothing coming to America. No, we made sacrifices and worked our asses off to, again, build our security. No one is going to come in and arbitrarily demand it from us because of the argument that they have it so bad.

[Edited] Let me add that we didn't know the language, nor the culture, yet still came here and made comfortable lives for ourselves. My parents had no skills, yet, they worked their asses off to ensure I had a complete education. The argument of can't sustaining or succeeding through hard work is lost on me completely.

 

[suncowiam]

As I asked before, how many people do you honestly think plan on making a career out of it? What of those who have a good paying job, loose it because their job no longer exists, downsizing, closures, and they have to take such a job while they embark on what could be a lengthy job search? And even if the worker is "skilless," as so many are fond of saying, why do they not deserve a living wage? Why should we, the tax payers, pick up Walmart's slack because Walmart won't pay livable wages or give livable hours? Like it or not, poverty wages are extra expenses for the tax payers, who are paying for what low-wage workers need but can't afford, even though they are working. If you work, you should make enough that your essentials are covered without having to rely on government assistance.
Or, we could let wages continually stagnate and decline, we could continue to kick more workers into the welfare lines over automation, we can continue to make education very expensive and cost-prohibitive to many, we can continue to let poverty be an issue, and face the consequences when our society crumbles at the levels that support it, and there are wide spread upheavals, protests, and riots, just because .1% of the citizens keep taking more and more for themselves while 99.9% of us have less and less.

You asked me many questions. Not sure which are rhetorical so I'll just try to answer them all.
"As I asked before, how many people do you honestly think plan on making a career out of it? " - I don't recall you asking me this. If folks don't make a career out of this then I see no issues. It's a stepping stone.
"What of those who have a good paying job, loose it because their job no longer exists, downsizing, closures, and they have to take such a job while they embark on what could be a lengthy job search?" - It's why one has savings. I know enough folks that have been layed off, but everyone should plan for this and not be surprised by it. If they're living paycheck to paycheck then, IMO, that's not proper planning. Its not feasible.
"And even if the worker is "skilless," as so many are fond of saying, why do they not deserve a living wage?" - Everyone deserves a living wage. A wage is a compensation for their work. So, they have to work for it. What is considered a living wage? It changes per area and market. Some folks live very basic life styles. Others live recklessly through credit and interest rates. Are folks willing to downsize their lives? There's too many subjective notions here to be answer this objectively. But what about the saying that if I earned then I deserved it? Is that saying, I dunno, but I agree with it.
"Why should we, the tax payers, pick up Walmart's slack because Walmart won't pay livable wages or give livable hours?" - This is not making much sense to me. How are tax payers picking up for Walmart's slack? I would agree if this was the automobile industry where government subsidized their costs and granted them loans. Maybe I'm missing some recent news on this. You're assuming Walmart should pay "livable" wages and hours. I'm not sure where this assumption is coming from. Where's the expectation that workers should earn their "livable" wages and hours?

In any society, there will always be a percentage of people that will be considered wealthy. You haven't suggested what percentage and what standards of wealth to be considered as fair? So if we some how changed that to 10% of the population to be wealthy, is that better for you, and why? Or 50%, and why?

You're tugging at numbers but I don't think you're addressing the fundamental issue. It's just like the minimum wage debate. It's just tugging at some arbitrary number that will never fix the problem. Resources do not generate themselves for free. They don't appear magically out of thin air. If people want resources, if family wants resources, if society wants resources... They all have to work for it. I'm not a dictator. I live in the same society that you do, yet, my family and I found ways to earn for our resources.

 

[Revoltingest]

I for one, know definitely the grass is not greener on the other side.

Communism took away my family's estate, which forced my family to flee to another country. And it wasn't even huge by any standards.

Of all the folks that you think would want hand-outs, are refugees that had nothing coming to America. No, we made sacrifices and worked our asses off to, again, build our security. No one is going to come in and arbitrarily demand it from us because of the argument that they have it so bad.

[Edited] Let me add that we didn't know the language, nor the culture, yet still came here and made comfortable lives for ourselves. My parents had no skills, yet, they worked their asses off to ensure I had a complete education. The argument of can't sustaining or succeeding through hard work is lost on me completely.

Hard work can be defeated by.....
- Stupidity
- Belief that a 40 hour week is hard work.
- Bad luck (eg, cancer, economic downturn)

 

[suncowiam]

Hard work can be defeated by.....
- Stupidity
- Belief that a 40 hour week is hard work.
- Bad luck (eg, cancer, economic downturn)

Fair enough. There has to be some smarts to it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Communism took away my family's estate, which forced my family to flee to another country. And it wasn't even huge by any standards.

The American government also does that (as do state and local).

How are tax payers picking up for Walmart's slack?

Walmart doesn't pay well and they don't give good hours. This sends people to welfare lines, and, of course, welfare is provided by tax payers.
It's also an issue of "free" trade, which sends jobs overseas, and sends people here to welfare lines.

Resources do not generate themselves for free.

They don't. But what isn't working very well is that most of the wealth being generated is going straight to the top while everyone else is seeing their incomes stagnate or decline.

 

[suncowiam]

The American government also does that (as do state and local).

Walmart doesn't pay well and they don't give good hours. This sends people to welfare lines, and, of course, welfare is provided by tax payers.
It's also an issue of "free" trade, which sends jobs overseas, and sends people here to welfare lines.

They don't. But what isn't working very well is that most of the wealth being generated is going straight to the top while everyone else is seeing their incomes stagnate or decline.

Under what laws do the American government do this? My wife is a legal assistant and she mentioned something concerning a public domain once. However, everything I've heard is to be "fairly compensated" if the government takes your land. There's a difference. And then there's a legal process if one wanted to object against what is considered "fair" compensation.

Concerning Walmart, I'm not sure how to answer this then just to suggest that its much more complicated than that.

Revoltingest was right to point out intelligence and smarts. There's a reason why these one percenters just keep on building their wealth. They are some of the smartest and most innovative folks on this planet. The opposite is still true for them though. If they make bad decisions and loosen their work habits, they can easily see their wealth disappear. But they "know" how to succeed. They don't have special priveledges as everyone here is suggesting. Ok, maybe some have political lines and involved in corruption, but they're liable for the same rules and laws that you and I have to obey. So, if they get caught, they will suffer the same consequences.

 

[Revoltingest]

The American government also does that (as do state and local).

Walmart doesn't pay well and they don't give good hours. This sends people to welfare lines, and, of course, welfare is provided by tax payers.
It's also an issue of "free" trade, which sends jobs overseas, and sends people here to welfare lines.

They don't. But what isn't working very well is that most of the wealth being generated is going straight to the top while everyone else is seeing their incomes stagnate or decline.

Another view is that Walmart is at least employing people who would be otherwise at even worse jobs or unemployed.
This cuts the tax burden.

 

[Politesse]

What good is "hard work" if no one is obligated to pay you for the work you do? People aren't "flocking" to countries with unregulated markets, either. They are flocking here, where the rule of law guarantees compensation for labor, and even our slums look better than middle class neighborhoods most other places on the continent. Why do you think so many Mexicans are trying to get to the US, rather than the other way around? We all love "capitalism" right, so shouldn't we want to all move somewhere where there are far less labor laws, less welfare, few safety regulations, and a $5/hr minimum wage? I mean, they definitely "let the market decide", and the market decides to put most of our low-level manufacturing jobs there. Hell, even some of our higher level jobs, like engineering and telecom, are opening up Mexican offices. So why aren't Americans, en masse, moving to follow our lost jobs into this haven of free market decision-making? Why aren't we taking advantage of all that freedom we love so much?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Must be nice to have a "conscience" that allows you to hate poor people and want to condemn them to perpetual poverty, all so the bosses can make a fast buck at the workers expense. The American way, capitalism in action!!

I agree from an emotional standpoint, but
the market simply doesn't work or ever was designed that way. I think a lot of people of course would like, even love to see a living wage for everybody, but Its just not feasible. Economic systems are far to volatile and sensitive to changes without having some kind of impact occur that affects people in one form or another.

Wish it wasn't that way, but it's a reality that everyone must contend with.

Forced redistribution of corporate wealth is only a bandaid type "fix" with repercussions, and dosent address any systemic issues that makes things the way they are. Look at what McDonald's is doing already in response.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What good is "hard work" if no one is obligated to pay you for the work you do? People aren't "flocking" to countries with unregulated markets, either. They are flocking here, where the rule of law guarantees compensation for labor, and even our slums look better than middle class neighborhoods most other places on the continent. Why do you think so many Mexicans are trying to get to the US, rather than the other way around? We all love "capitalism" right, so shouldn't we want to all move somewhere where there are far less labor laws, less welfare, few safety regulations, and a $5/hr minimum wage? I mean, they definitely "let the market decide", and the market decides to put most of our low-level manufacturing jobs there. Hell, even some of our higher level jobs, like engineering and telecom, are opening up Mexican offices. So why aren't Americans, en masse, moving to follow our lost jobs into this haven of free market decision-making? Why aren't we taking advantage of all that freedom we love so much?

Sometimes I wonder that things will detoriate enough to the point Americans will flood over the Mexican border looking for jobs someday. Won't that be a kick in the bucket?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Under what laws do the American government do this?

It's the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution.

Sometimes I wonder that things will detoriate enough to the point Americans will flood over the Mexican border looking for jobs someday. Won't that be a kick in the bucket?

Actually, they're heading North, to Canada, in record numbers.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3433005
It may seem like a quiet country where not much happens besides ice hockey, curling and beer drinking. But our neighbor to the north is proving to be quite the draw for thousands of disgruntled Americans.
The number of U.S. citizens who moved to Canada last year hit a 30-year high, with a 20 percent increase over the previous year and almost double the number who moved in 2000.

 

[suncowiam]

It's the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution.

Actually, they're heading North, to Canada, in record numbers.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3433005
It may seem like a quiet country where not much happens besides ice hockey, curling and beer drinking. But our neighbor to the north is proving to be quite the draw for thousands of disgruntled Americans.
The number of U.S. citizens who moved to Canada last year hit a 30-year high, with a 20 percent increase over the previous year and almost double the number who moved in 2000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
"Finally, the Amendment requires that the power of eminent domain be coupled with "just compensation" for those whose property is taken."

Ok, it's called eminent domain and like I noted, there's a concept called "just compensation."

What's your point with this anyhows? Are you suggesting that the US government, the state or the county will come and seize my house?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What's your point with this anyhows? Are you suggesting that the US government, the state or the county will come and seize my house?

That they can. A few years ago a bunch of houses were taken just so a bypass could be built, which means a bunch of people were forced from their homes by the state of Indiana.
And just what is "just compensation?" It isn't exactly defined, and it still doesn't change the fact that the government seized your property.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Actually, they're heading North, to Canada, in record numbers.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3433005
It may seem like a quiet country where not much happens besides ice hockey, curling and beer drinking. But our neighbor to the north is proving to be quite the draw for thousands of disgruntled Americans.
The number of U.S. citizens who moved to Canada last year hit a 30-year high, with a 20 percent increase over the previous year and almost double the number who moved in 2000.

I thought of a work visa one time, but it just so happens my employer pays an additional 10 cents a mile and border pay when I go into Canada.

Expatraiting to Canada wouldn't ever be in my best personal interests as any American who does so, permanently gives up some very important privileges that cannot be recovered. albeit I just love the country with exception to the horrendous traffic congestion. I do a lot Toronto runs.

Since I'm reasonably familiar with GTA and surrounding areas, Canada would certainly be my second choice for a home if ever compulsed to do so.

What is an eye opener is the sheer volume of manufacturers that abound. Going into Hamilton, Mississauga, and Burlington, the cargo ships and harbors remain active and busy which makes me wonder what happened back home, as stateside, just miles over the border the waterfronts are pretty much desolate and barren by comparison. Just mostly barge traffic and the Coast Guard remain with dilapidated grain silos and deteriorating steel mill facilities. Those were the good jobs. Not any more.

 

[suncowiam]

That they can. A few years ago a bunch of houses were taken just so a bypass could be built, which means a bunch of people were forced from their homes by the state of Indiana.
And just what is "just compensation?" It isn't exactly defined, and it still doesn't change the fact that the government seized your property.

You and I can't argue the terms of just until we have the details of those transactions.

Anyhows, I'm still gonna suggest that what my family went through is not the same as what you're suggesting.

I don't know how else to describe it unless you lived in a country that was recently conquered by a communist party.