Nice Going Governor.. 15 an hour for Fast Food Workers across the State of New York. oh boy.....

[Lyndon]

I really have no interest in cutting and pasting any of your comments, because they're not worth reading or considering IMHO.

 

[suncowiam]

We really have no interest in cutting and pasting any of your comments, because they're not worth reading or considering IMHO.

Uhm don't read my comments then?

[Edited] There's also an ignore button. Try it out.

 

[Lyndon]

It doesn't work for all the other forum members, otherwise I would use it.

 

[suncowiam]

It doesn't work for all the other forum members, otherwise I would use it.

You can't put me on your ignore list? Sounds like a bug. You should report this so you dont have to bare with my comments. Trying to help out, buddy.

 

[Revoltingest]

You can't put me on your ignore list? Sounds like a bug. You should report this so you dont have to bare with my comments. Trying to help out, buddy.

The problem with putting someone on <ignore> isn't with the software (which works).
It's with the irresistible temptation to take them off it to see what fresh horrors await.
(At least that's what happens to everyone who puts me on <ignore>.)

 

[Underhill]

Here's an article that suggests jobs are lost concerning minimum wage:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesdo...age-delusion-and-the-death-of-common-sense/2/

It goes into detail on the economic theory. It also suggests real life evidence from studies, but unfortunately do not cite the actual case studies.

Like I said earlier, there's just too much conflicting results to definitively suggest the merits of minimum wage.

Sure there is. And this is intentional. On any issue where money is involved, the water is muddied by those with skin in the game. I would say a magazine like Forbes is invariably going to support the pro business angle as they are a business magazine. And business will always be against any increase for obvious reasons.

Like any fiscal policy there will be good and bad to come from increased wages. I simply think the good will outweigh the bad.

Here is a study done in the 90's on the subject. They studied increases in the minimum wage in New Jersey and compared the outcome to what went on in NY and PA.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Ac4edsdM-6rUfA&bvm=bv.103627116,d.aWw&cad=rja

 

[Underhill]

Here is an article summarizing the studies done on minimum wage increases before Seattle voted on theirs.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...hat-happened-when-cities-raised-minimum-wage/

They found that the largest negative impact was on restaurants, where a 25% increase to the wage meant a 2-3% increase in prices. I can live with that.

 

[suncowiam]

Sure there is. And this is intentional. On any issue where money is involved, the water is muddied by those with skin in the game. I would say a magazine like Forbes is invariably going to support the pro business angle as they are a business magazine. And business will always be against any increase for obvious reasons.

Like any fiscal policy there will be good and bad to come from increased wages. I simply think the good will outweigh the bad.

Here is a study done in the 90's on the subject. They studied increases in the minimum wage in New Jersey and compared the outcome to what went on in NY and PA.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...Ac4edsdM-6rUfA&bvm=bv.103627116,d.aWw&cad=rja

Here is an article summarizing the studies done on minimum wage increases before Seattle voted on theirs.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...hat-happened-when-cities-raised-minimum-wage/

They found that the largest negative impact was on restaurants, where a 25% increase to the wage meant a 2-3% increase in prices. I can live with that.

Your first article seemed like a solid piece of work to assert the non-effect of minimum wage on jobs. But then it only focused on chain restaurants/fast food. If you recall, I did mention that chain stores might not be affected. I believe these entities have the profit margins to eat this cost. I don't believe small businesses will, so if there is a similar study on small businesses, that would be interesting.

However, from your second article, it did mention the following:

"A study by the Congressional Budget Office last month found that raising the federal minimum to $10.10 would boost the earnings of 16.5 million workers, but an estimated half million would lose their jobs."

It's conflicting with each other. Results have to also correlate with each other in order to assert a conclusion. If there's a conflict, we have to understand fully what that conflict is.

I can't offer you anything else but to continue to suggest that we don't know how minimum wage will effect any economy at any time. Revoltingest might have a very good point in suggesting a factor concerning confidence that could be very hard to quantify.

I'm not trying to disacknowledge your findings, but I think we have to agree that all the findings simply aren't agreeing with each other.

Anyhows... My opinion of minimum wage is that is helps some but not all the target folks we want to help. If jobs are loss, which I personally think is still debatable, then I think minimum wage will hurt specific individuals even more. It fundamentally puts more cash in some people's pockets, but does not address the bigger picture. Why are people in poverty? Obviously, money is a factor but I don't believe this is the fundamental reason. By addressing the fundamental reasons whether it be education, responsibility, vices like drugs, gambling, addiction, I believe we will truly fix the poverty. Like I mentioned before, minimum wage is a patch at best.

 

[Underhill]

Your first article seemed like a solid peace of work to assert the non-effect of minimum wage on jobs. But then it only focused on chain restaurants/fast food. If you recall, I did mention that chain stores might not be affected. I believe these entities have the profit margins to eat this cost. I don't believe small businesses will, so if there is a similar study on small businesses, that would be interesting.

However, from your second article, it did mention the following:

"A study by the Congressional Budget Office last month found that raising the federal minimum to $10.10 would boost the earnings of 16.5 million workers, but an estimated half million would lose their jobs."

It's conflicting with each other. Results have to also correlate with each other in order to assert a conclusion. If there's a conflict, we have to understand fully what that conflict is.

I can't offer you anything else but to continue to suggest that we don't know how minimum wage will effect any economy at any time. Revoltingest might have a very good point in suggesting a factor concerning confidence that could be very hard to quantify.

I'm not trying to disacknowledge your findings, but I think we have to agree that all the findings simply aren't agreeing with each other.

Anyhows... My opinion of minimum wage is that is helps some but not all the target folks we want to help. If jobs are loss, which I personally think is still debatable, then I think minimum wage will hurt specific individuals even more. It fundamentally puts more cash in some people's pockets, but does not address the bigger picture. Why are people in poverty? Obviously, money is a factor but I don't believe this is the fundamental reason. By addressing the fundamental reasons whether it be education, responsibility, vices like drugs, gambling, addiction, I believe we will truly fix the poverty. Like I mentioned before, minimum wage is a patch at best.

Obviously we aren't going to agree, but I would just add this.

The reason the minimum wage is a patch is because thus far it has been treated as one. My father always said the minimum was only worth doing if they keep it relevant. Something that has not been done to this point.

The only way I know of to do that is to peg wages to inflation. This would help everyone as the norm would be that base wages get an inflationary shift up every year.

I would also add that I think there is such a disagreement on the effects because those effects vary based upon how much it is raised and over how long a time period. The biggest thing that hurts business is dramatic changes they cannot plan for.

 

[suncowiam]

Obviously we aren't going to agree, but I would just add this.

The reason the minimum wage is a patch is because thus far it has been treated as one. My father always said the minimum was only worth doing if they keep it relevant. Something that has not been done to this point.

The only way I know of to do that is to peg wages to inflation. This would help everyone as the norm would be that base wages get an inflationary shift up every year.

I would also add that I think there is such a disagreement on the affects because those affects vary based upon how much it is raised and over how long a time period. The biggest thing that hurts business is dramatic changes they cannot plan for.

I strongly agree with your last point. For simplicity, many of the research was an observation at a particular time in the economy. Even though it wasn't, the studies did not account for a rising or falling economy and did not report on it. I think you're right that these studies need to incorporate the differential of various factors to better see the trends. Differential here is relating back to calculus to understand for example the acceleration of a car versus its speed.