Nice Going Governor.. 15 an hour for Fast Food Workers across the State of New York. oh boy.....

[Underhill]

You're right, just like $15 is subjective, why not $20? Why not $100? Why not a million dollars as you suggested? Why not tax the rich %95?

You can't answer it because it's a subjective notion. The goal posts are different for everyone, pending the person's debts, number of dependencies, location, cost of living and on... I've made my points but if you disagree, then that's fine.

Like I said to an earlier poster, I would have to repeat myself so best not to continue. You're not obligated to agree with me. Just have a good night.

It can be subjective. But there is a set poverty level (which nobody in their right mind thinks is too high, no matter where you live). So setting the minimum wage so working people are near the top of that level is not unreasonable.

As for taxing the rich, we did it before and it worked. In the 70's the top rate was much higher. This notion that raising taxes inhibits growth is just wrong, and economics is telling us so.

"But an equally compelling reason relies on a new understanding of the economics of taxation. For 30 years, any proposal to raise taxes had to overcome an unshakable belief that higher taxes inevitably led to less growth. The belief survived the Clinton administration, when taxes rose and the economy surged. It survived George W. Bush’s administration, when taxes were cut yet growth sagged.

But now, a growing body of research suggests not only that the government could raise much more revenue by sharply raising the top tax rates paid by the richest Americans, but it could do so without slowing economic growth. Top tax rates could go as high as 80 percent or more."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/business/economy/the-case-for-raising-top-tax-rates.html?_r=0

 

[Underhill]

As a vegetarian, I resent the implication that fishing is important for anything other than hurting fish.

Point taken. I was simply borrowing his analogy.

*bow

 

[Revoltingest]

As a vegetarian, I resent the implication that fishing is important for anything other than hurting fish.

As a fish eater, I resent the implication that farming is important for anything other than torturing carrots & radishes.
But if you must eat them, please eat only free range carrots & radishes.

 

[Underhill]

As a fish eater, I resent the implication that farming is important for anything other than torturing carrots & radishes.
But if you must eat them, please eat only free range carrots & radishes.

So where does that leave fish farming? Free range fish farming is just fishing isn't it?

I'm SO confused!

 

[Revoltingest]

So where does that leave fish farming? Free range fish farming is just fishing isn't it?
I'm SO confused!

I prefer free range fish....they taste better.
Farmed salmon is so bland that I don't bother with it.
But the wild stuff is the bacon of the sea!

 

[Underhill]

I prefer free range fish....they taste better.
Farmed salmon is so bland that I don't bother with it.
But the wild stuff is the bacon of the sea!

I don't mind fishing. So long as I don't have to clean bullhead.

We have an annual scout camporee where we teach the fishing merit badge. 3 years running I had to demonstrate how to clean fish using fish the boys caught. Every year some kid would come up carrying his bucket with a bullhead in it. I won't go into detail, but it isn't my idea of a good time.

 

[Glaurung]

Every year some kid would come up carrying his bucket with a bullhead in it.

The few times that I have gone fishing has taught me that catfish are the zubat of the sea.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As a vegetarian, I resent the implication that fishing is important for anything other than hurting fish.

For some people, it's a source of cheap food.

The few times that I have gone fishing has taught me that catfish are the zubats of the sea.

I know what a zubat is, but I don't get the analogy. Catfish have eyes, they're bottom feeders, and you can catch them with just about anything (illegally with nothing). And they're a bit of an interesting catch, because sometimes they'll pick the bait up, reposition it, and then strike at it.

 

[Glaurung]

I know what a zubat is, but I don't get the analogy. Catfish have eyes, they're bottom feeders, and you can catch them with just about anything (illegally with nothing). And they're a bit of an interesting catch, because sometimes they'll pick the bait up, reposition it, and then strike at it.

You've never played any of the pokemon games growing up?

 

[suncowiam]

But of course raising the minimum wage teaches responsibility. It incentivizes people to get to work. I guarantee people who haven't worked for a while will be more likely to go down to McDonalds and put in an application if they know their labor is worth $15 an hour as apposed to 8. Pay a man enough to make a living and he is more likely to fish.

It's just a different approach. You are talking about using the stick approach, take away from those who don't act responsibly. I'm talking about using the carrot.

This has a lot of advantages. For one, you don't run the risk of harming those who legitimately are trying.

But, the root problems are technology and world trade, neither of which are going away. So we have to change our way of thinking. Unemployment, or better to say underemployment, will be the norm going forward. So we can either find ways to solve the problem or live with a significant portion of the country living on the dole.

I do not believe minimum wage incentivizes people to work. I have not seen data to suggest this. The data is pretty mixed especially in Seattle. Many reputable business sites are claiming that Seattle are losing restaurants, however, I've read elsewhere this is not true as the same number of restaurant licenses are being requested. Frankly I don't know. My claim is that raising minimum wage doesn't teach society anything. It's just throwing money into some black box and then not knowing what is actually happening with that money. It probably will benefit some, but I think it could also hurt others. Not sure if we truly know what the positives and negatives are.

Also, you're also assuming there will be the same number of positions available to the unemployed. I don't see that happening. Maybe big businesses like walmart and mcdonalds, but definitely not small businesses like restaurants, mom/pops, specialty stores... New small businesses historically lose money during their first years. It can be very volatile to start new businesses.

Beyond this, I would suggest you provide data if we want to continue the merits of minimum wage.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You've never played any of the pokemon games growing up?

Yes, I did (I was about 10 when the first ones came out), but I don't get the analogy.

 

[suncowiam]

i need the internet to pay my other bills. i get fees for using other methods and some are impractical.

i also use the internet to find more/better work.

and for banking

it doesn't matter that it could be worse, i could be better

there is a term called working class poor
more to add latter

edit
I have health and dental insurance, still can't afford to go to the DR or buy meds.
I have car insurance(because I have too) but it only legally protects me not finical protects me.

we have one car, which we can not afford to repair.

I realized today that I should not have gone into your personal matters. I apologize.

I hope things will turn better for you and that we can still discuss this on a friendly level.

My life now is very comfortable and we have much security. However, I truly know what its like to live in poverty and having to dig out of poverty with my journey to US, 35 years ago. I didn't have much as a child. My sister who was born 9 years after me had much more. My parents actually sat down and talked to me about their regrets of my childhood and being poor. I just told them to forget about it and understood their situation.

All I'm saying, is that there is a path to security and success but it's not supposed to be easy. There is personal responsibility involved. Like I said, no matter how much assistance is given, without a level of responsibility, it simply will not happen. Fundamentally, I think that is the issue.

I do owe a commenter here concerning if minimum wage helped my relatives. I am interested in knowing that so I will reply with such in time. Just need to sync up with them.

 

[Iti oj]

Yes, I did (I was about 10 when the first ones came out), but I don't get the analogy.

zubats are every where cant walk two steps with out seeing one. So im guess they mean you can't throw in a line with out getting a cat fish.

 

[Iti oj]

I realized today that I should not have gone into your personal matters. I apologize.

I hope things will turn better for you and that we can still discuss this on a friendly level.

My life now is very comfortable and we have much security. However, I truly know what its like to live in poverty and having to dig out of poverty with my journey to US, 35 years ago. I didn't have much as a child. My sister who was born 9 years after me had much more. My parents actually sat down and talked to me about their regrets of my childhood and being poor. I just told them to forget about it and understood their situation.

All I'm saying, is that there is a path to security and success but it's not supposed to be easy. There is personal responsibility involved. Like I said, no matter how much assistance is given, without a level of responsibility, it simply will not happen. Fundamentally, I think that is the issue.

I do owe a commenter here concerning if minimum wage helped my relatives. I am interested in knowing that so I will reply with such in time. Just need to sync up with them.

Thanks for responding. =D No need to apologize. I think it helps me and others for me to talk about this. Its important too, to add a human element to the discussion.

gotta run i'll have more to say latter.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Lets see......

Just can't wait for food prices across the state to suddenly go up drastically effectively nullifying the difference made. So much for getting ahead while having the distinct privilege of paying more taxes for your new found wealth. Government will be happy happy happy.
Speaking of happy.....

20 dollar happy meals perhaps?

Will retail and service sector jobs make a stink as well? Unified call for minimum 15 wage across the board for all minimum wage workers everywhere???

Oh wait a minute....

More business packing up and saying screw you New York. Unemployment more unemployment.....

Sorry workers. Help will soon not be wanted. All positions filled.

Clicky source linky thing......

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/11/new-york-state-oks-15-minimum-wage-for-fast-food-workers.html

Ahem..

So what does the discerning customer expect from a 15 dollar an hour fast food employee?

Will my order finally be made right for once with everything that was ordered, and asked for?

Will the food be fresher and consequently taste better than serving something sitting under a heat lamp for several hours?

I now demand a retroactive reimbursement from all the years I had to work at a minimum wage job at a measly 3.50 an hour. :0°

I'm done.

Your turn.......

FANTASTIC !!

 

[suncowiam]

It can be subjective. But there is a set poverty level (which nobody in their right mind thinks is too high, no matter where you live). So setting the minimum wage so working people are near the top of that level is not unreasonable.

As for taxing the rich, we did it before and it worked. In the 70's the top rate was much higher. This notion that raising taxes inhibits growth is just wrong, and economics is telling us so.

"But an equally compelling reason relies on a new understanding of the economics of taxation. For 30 years, any proposal to raise taxes had to overcome an unshakable belief that higher taxes inevitably led to less growth. The belief survived the Clinton administration, when taxes rose and the economy surged. It survived George W. Bush’s administration, when taxes were cut yet growth sagged.

But now, a growing body of research suggests not only that the government could raise much more revenue by sharply raising the top tax rates paid by the richest Americans, but it could do so without slowing economic growth. Top tax rates could go as high as 80 percent or more."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/28/business/economy/the-case-for-raising-top-tax-rates.html?_r=0

I'm in favor on taxing the rich and bigger businesses because you are targeting exactly who you want to target. However,because we are still in a "free" economy, the rich and big businesses will most likely take their money and relocate outside of US. We don't want to do that. So it's a subjective line also as how much we tax and at what distinguishes rich and big businesses. But to me, this is concise and targets the folks that theoretically will not suffer as much. The tax can go to programs that can be accounted for, that can be checked and then balanced against, with proper management. Unforturnately, my view of government management is very poor. Historically, government managed businesses simply do not succeed. There tends to be too much politics, spin, waste and inefficiency.

The problem I find with minimum wage, is that it is vague and inconcise. Yes, we know it targets walmart and other chain stores. But it also hurts small businesses. Small businesses are folks that are trying to get to the next level. We don't want to target these folks. Also, seriously, who knows what people do with extra money. As far as I'm concerned, the differential gain of minimum wage cannot be accounted for.

 

[Glaurung]

zubats are every where cant walk two steps with out seeing one. So im guess they mean you can't throw in a line with out getting a cat fish.

This was my intended allusion.

In the older games they were mostly found in dark caves, which had very high encounter rates. It's a meme onto itself now.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

zubats are every where cant walk two steps with out seeing one. So im guess they mean you can't throw in a line with out getting a cat fish.

Not to go too further off topic, but if all you are catching is cat fish you need to change your methods (such as adding a bobber, changing bait to something they don't eat as often, or change locations).

 

[Underhill]

I do not believe minimum wage incentivizes people to work. I have not seen data to suggest this. The data is pretty mixed especially in Seattle. Many reputable business sites are claiming that Seattle are losing restaurants, however, I've read elsewhere this is not true as the same number of restaurant licenses are being requested. Frankly I don't know. My claim is that raising minimum wage doesn't teach society anything. It's just throwing money into some black box and then not knowing what is actually happening with that money. It probably will benefit some, but I think it could also hurt others. Not sure if we truly know what the positives and negatives are.

Also, you're also assuming there will be the same number of positions available to the unemployed. I don't see that happening. Maybe big businesses like walmart and mcdonalds, but definitely not small businesses like restaurants, mom/pops, specialty stores... New small businesses historically lose money during their first years. It can be very volatile to start new businesses.

Beyond this, I would suggest you provide data if we want to continue the merits of minimum wage.

It's hard to provide data as there is no comparable I know of. Seattle doesn't work because the cities minimum wage hike had very little impact as it's an expensive city and most jobs paid that or close to that already. The same would be true of NYC.

But I find it hard to believe that in poor areas people wouldn't be incentivized by an 80+% increase to entry level wages.

I would also point out that companies and businesses are not in the habit of hiring people they don't need. There may be a few job losses here and there, but in the big picture I doubt it would have much impact.

I had to laugh recently when I saw people pointing out self service kiosk and blaming the minimum wage changes for those lost jobs. I don't know about where you live, but grocery stores have been putting these in for the last 5 years. These types of innovations are exactly why we need to pay more.

 

[suncowiam]

It's hard to provide data as there is no comparable I know of. Seattle doesn't work because the cities minimum wage hike had very little impact as it's an expensive city and most jobs paid that or close to that already. The same would be true of NYC.

But I find it hard to believe that in poor areas people wouldn't be incentivized by an 80+% increase to entry level wages.

I would also point out that companies and businesses are not in the habit of hiring people they don't need. There may be a few job losses here and there, but in the big picture I doubt it would have much impact.

I had to laugh recently when I saw people pointing out self service kiosk and blaming the minimum wage changes for those lost jobs. I don't know about where you live, but grocery stores have been putting these in for the last 5 years. These types of innovations are exactly why we need to pay more.

Then I think we agree that minimum wage is a guessing game?