NIV - KJV The Fowl Insect

[029b10]

In the 20th verse of chapter 11, the NIV book of Leviticus, it is written;

20 “‘All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you.
21 There are, however, some flying insects that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground.
22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.
23 But all other flying insects that have four legs you are to regard as unclean.

However, in 20th verse of chapter 11, the KJV, in of Leviticus, it is written;

20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth.
22 Even these of them ye may eat, the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his king, and the beetle after his kind and the grasshopper after his kind.
23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Since an insect is not a egg laying bird with two wings and two feet, is this merely an error in translation or a intentional change in the scripture?

 

[Pegg]

In the 20th verse of chapter 11, the NIV book of Leviticus, it is written;

20 “‘All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you.
21 There are, however, some flying insects that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground.
22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.
23 But all other flying insects that have four legs you are to regard as unclean.

However, in 20th verse of chapter 11, the KJV, in of Leviticus, it is written;

20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth.
22 Even these of them ye may eat, the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his king, and the beetle after his kind and the grasshopper after his kind.
23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Since an insect is not a egg laying bird with two wings and two feet, is this merely an error in translation or a intentional change in the scripture?

this is an example of an error in translation in the KJV bible.

When the KJV was first written, they had a limited understanding of the Hebrew language and therefore they translated the Hebrew term (ʽohph) as fowl. But the hebrew word comes from a word meaning “fly” and can be applied to both insects and birds.

 

[029b10]

OT:5775
`owph (ofe); from OT:5774; a bird (as covered with feathers, or rather as covering with wings), often collectively:
KJV - bird, that flieth, flying, fowl.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

So the passage in Leviticus 11:13, And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

So these are not fowls, but insects?

Which insects walk on all four, having legs above their feet, or did Strong's misinterpreted that too?

 

[Nietzsche]

this is an example of an error in translation in the KJV bible.

When the KJV was first written, they had a limited understanding of the Hebrew language and therefore they translated the Hebrew term (ʽohph) as fowl. But the hebrew word comes from a word meaning “fly” and can be applied to both insects and birds.

In short, the KJV is an excellent example of "Brute Force Translation".

 

[Nietzsche]

OT:5775
`owph (ofe); from OT:5774; a bird (as covered with feathers, or rather as covering with wings), often collectively:
KJV - bird, that flieth, flying, fowl.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

So the passage in Leviticus 11:13, And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

So these are not fowls, but insects?

Which insects walk on all four, having legs above their feet, or did Strong's misinterpreted that too?

What bird walks on all fours?

 

[029b10]

At least you said walks, as in moves upon the ground.

It's out there if you look.

So what insect has four legs? to move upon all four?

 

[Bunyip]

In the 20th verse of chapter 11, the NIV book of Leviticus, it is written;

20 “‘All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be regarded as unclean by you.
21 There are, however, some flying insects that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground.
22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.
23 But all other flying insects that have four legs you are to regard as unclean.

However, in 20th verse of chapter 11, the KJV, in of Leviticus, it is written;

20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth.
22 Even these of them ye may eat, the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his king, and the beetle after his kind and the grasshopper after his kind.
23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Since an insect is not a egg laying bird with two wings and two feet, is this merely an error in translation or a intentional change in the scripture?

I think that classifications are by definition arbitrary, if you define 'Bird' as anything that flies - then dragonflies are birds. There is no error or mistranslation there - only the misconception that modern taxonomic classification should correlate with that of the ancients.

 

[029b10]

I think that classifications are by definition arbitrary, if you define 'Bird' as anything that flies - then dragonflies are birds. There is no error or mistranslation there - only the misconception that modern taxonomic classification should correlate with that of the ancients.

So taxonomic classification holds that insects have four limbs?

 

[Bunyip]

So taxonomic classification holds that insects have four limbs?

Not as far as I know. Why do you ask?

 

[029b10]

Fowls only have four appendages, All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

 

[Lyndon]

Insects by definition have 6 legs, not 4, probably both translations are wrong. The expression "walk on all fours" may not mean 4 legs but multiple legs. I don't know.

 

[Bunyip]

Fowls only have four appendages, All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

Yes. I read that. Perhaps you need to read my original comment again?

 

[Kolibri]

Out of curiosity, and it has been a while, I looked these up in the NWT.

"These are the flying creatures that you are to loathe; they should not be eaten, for they are loathsome: the eagle, the osprey, the black vulture," - Le 11:13

"Every winged swarming creature (or "Every insect.") that goes on all fours is something loathsome to you. Of the winged swarming creatures that move on all fours, you many eat only those that have jointed legs above their feet for leaping on the ground. Of these you many eat: various kinds of migratory locusts, other edible locusts, crickets, and grasshoppers. All other winged swarming creatures with four legs are something loathsome to you." - Le 11:20-21

 

[Lyndon]

Well its pretty obvious the passage is referring to insects not birds, and insects have 6 legs, not four, so either there's something wrong in all three translations, or something wrong in the original Hebrew text, I suspect the latter, another good reason to not support a word for word literal interpretation of everything in the Bible.

 

[Kolibri]

Well its pretty obvious the passage is referring to insects not birds, and insects have 6 legs, not four, so either there's something wrong in all three translations, or something wrong in the original Hebrew text, I suspect the latter, another good reason to not support a word for word literal interpretation of everything in the Bible.

The words probably refer to their method of locomotion, and signify, that they move like quadrupeds.

There are winged insects, such as bees and flies and wasps, that walk along like the quadrupeds that go on all four. Of these, there are some with leaper legs that may be eaten. They literally have four feet that they crawl with, the other two being for leaping. The Bible is written in the colorful language of the common people, and we must allow for picturesque or descriptive expressions that are not always strictly literal. We sometimes speak of a man standing up on his hind legs and fighting. We do not mean it to be taken literally, to imply that he has forelegs and that he usually walks along on all four. We are drawing the picture from quadrupeds that rear up on their hind legs and paw or strike with their forelegs, as do horses or deer or bear when fighting. In a similar way, descriptively and not literally, the Bible refers to winged insects as going on all fours like quadrupeds.

(This information I had to go back a long ways - to a 1958 Watchtower Questions from Readers article.)

 

[029b10]

It is extremely obvious, such as Leviticus 11:9-12 is referring unto that which is in the waters.
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:13-20 is speaking of fowls with vertebrates.
13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

And Leviticus 11:21-23 is speaking of insects.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

So thank you for clarifying the reason.

 

[sincerly]

It is extremely obvious, such as Leviticus 11:9-12 is referring unto that which is in the waters.
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:13-20 is speaking of fowls with vertebrates.
13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

And Leviticus 11:21-23 is speaking of insects.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

So thank you for clarifying the reason.

The Creator GOD gave certain foods for HIS Created beings to eat. initially(Gen.1:29) it was vegetarian. Then at the end of the Flood flesh foods were added. At Sinai, Lev.11 and Deut.14 specified the flesh foods by names and categories.
Isn't it nice that the Creator GOD was so thoughtful. Now if mankind will only heed HIS choice of diet.

 

[Kolibri]

The Creator GOD gave certain foods for HIS Created beings to eat. initially(Gen.1:29) it was vegetarian. Then at the end of the Flood flesh foods were added. At Sinai, Lev.11 and Deut.14 specified the flesh foods by names and categories.
Isn't it nice that the Creator GOD was so thoughtful. Now if mankind will only heed HIS choice of diet.

It is interesting that Noah was told to man can eat meat that has been bleed properly first. And under the Law it was restricted again. But the cultural anathema created by living under the Law covenant was used to help Peter adjust when he was being sent to use the 3rd key of the Kingdom. He had a repetitive dream where he was commanded to eat foods previously disallowed. (Act 10:9,16) Later, it was confirmed that the dietary restriction given to Noah was still in effect, but the one given under the Law was no longer mandatory - even to Jews. (Act 15:28,29; 21:25)

"Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, I give them all to you. Only flesh with its life (or "soul.") - its blood - you must not eat." - Ge 9:4,5

 

[jeager106]

I ain't eating no bug anyway so this scripture is meaningless to me.
Not discoutning that as biblical scripture that has value to insect eaters I just ain't one
of them
What BIRD walks on all four "apendages" anyway?

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
The Creator GOD gave certain foods for HIS Created beings to eat. initially(Gen.1:29) it was vegetarian. Then at the end of the Flood flesh foods were added. At Sinai, Lev.11 and Deut.14 specified the flesh foods by names and categories.
Isn't it nice that the Creator GOD was so thoughtful. Now if mankind will only heed HIS choice of diet.
Click to expand...

It is interesting that Noah was told to man can eat meat that has been bleed properly first. And under the Law it was restricted again. But the cultural anathema created by living under the Law covenant was use to help Peter adjust when he was being sent to use the 3rd key of the Kingdom. He had a repetitive dream where he was commanded to eat foods previously disallowed. (Act 10:9,16) Later, it was confirmed that the dietary restriction given to Noah was still in effect, but the one given under the Law was no longer mandatory - even to Jews. (Act 15:28,29; 21:25)

"Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, I give them all to you. Only flesh with it's life (or "soul.") - its blood - you must not eat." - Ge 9:4,5

Kolibri, Are you saying that GOD doesn't mean that which HE says? Are you agreeing with Satan--GOD lies?
Are the "flesh pots of Egypt" more enticing that the love and communication with the Redeemer of the world?
Gen. 9:3-5, "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. "
Let's look at the vegetation restrictions Gen.1:29, "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.(food)."

That "every" was understood to bear "seed" and the animals were named as "clean"/"unclean" and Noah brought the animals aboard the Ark as pairs(either --"Clean" or "unclean").
GOD wasn't slack in HIS instructions. However, man, from Adam disregarded the Life preserving instructions of GOD for the death dealing lusts of the adversary.
Read back over Peter's vision and note that Peter did not eat and that he "doubted" what it could mean. It wasn't until the Holy Spirit was given that Peter understood the Meaning and confessed it---"Of a truth I perceive that GOD is no respecter of persons."
Hadn't Peter segregated himself from the gentiles?(Paul reprimanded)(To whom he was to spread the Gospel message to along with the rest of the Apostles?)