No doubt in Qur'an [2.2] , but who doubt it ?

[Union]

Salam Alulu . Thanks for you wise response. Well, among so many disagreement, you must agree with the following things :


01-There are no names of Salatul Dhuhr , Salatul Asr and Salatul Magreeb in Qur’an .
02-There are names of Salatul Fajr , Salalut Isha and Salalutl Wusta in Qur’an .

But you are under impression that there are five times of Salah mentioned in the Quran though three names of Salah written there . But such is not the case . ALLAH . swt, mentioned three times Salah with its three names in the Qur’an . Below I summarized them for the future reference as well.

Daily Salat - Salatul Fajr (Dawn Prayer) :


Name of the Salah :

[024:058] O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does God make clear the Signs to you: for God is full of knowledge and wisdom.
Time of the Salah:
[002:187] Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. God knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what God Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) God: Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth God make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint.

Daily Salat- Salatul Isha (Evening Prayer) :


Name of the Salah :

[024:058] O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the evening prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does God make clear the Signs to you: for God is full of knowledge and wisdom.
Time of the Salah:
[017:078] Perform the prayer at the sinking of the sun to the darkening of the night and the recital of dawn; surely the recital of dawn is witnessed.

Special Salah- Slaltul Wusta (The middle Prayer) :


Name of the Salah :

[002:238] Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before God in a devout (frame of mind).
Time of the Salah:
[062:009] O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of God, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!


[062:010] And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of God: and celebrate the Praises of God often (and without stint): that ye may prosper.[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NB- Verse 62.9-10 predicts that this special prayer of day of Jumaa should be performed in the middle of the business when it is in full swing .It also says that after the prayer we should go back and travel throughout the earth to trade our business more .Therefore in two ways it can be called a middle Salah i[/FONT]) it should me reformed in the middle of business ii) it should be performed in the middle of the day, when we have done a lot of business and also we will have enough day light to travel and do more business . That’s why it is called Wusta Salah or middle Salah in verse 2.238 and is given special denotation .

 

[Alulu]

Salam Alulu . Thanks for you wise response. Well, among so many disagreement, you must agree with the following things :
01-There are no names of Salatul Dhuhr , Salatul Asr and Salatul Magreeb in Qur’an .
02-There are names of Salatul Fajr , Salalut Isha and Salalutl Wusta in Qur’an .

But you are under impression that there are five times of Salah mentioned in the Quran though three names of Salah written there . But such is not the case . ALLAH . swt, mentioned three times Salah with its three names in the Qur’an. Below I summarized them for the future reference as well.

Daily Salat - Salatul Fajr (Dawn Prayer) :
Name of the Salah :
[024:058] O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does God make clear the Signs to you: for God is full of knowledge and wisdom.
Time of the Salah:
[002:187] Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. God knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what God Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) God: Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth God make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint.

I personally find it cherry-picking to insist on "salat" (prayer) being used by Allah in order to recognize it as a single prayer, but when it comes down to the period of time when this prayer should be prayed you pick a verse where is not spoken about prayer in any way. The above verse, 2:187, is about fasting. Prayer is nowhere mentioned. Neither that this should be the time for fajr prayer.
One might ask critically: how do you know for sure fajr starts at this time? Allah does not mention it explicitly does He? And why do you insist on a explicit-literal reading when one thing concerned (names of prayers) and drop it when it comes down to finding the period of time.

When you are starting off from the point that "if Allah does not explicitly mention prayer I just dont recognize it as such", it is strange you leave this method when the actual time of prayer should be understood. All of a sudden the question "would Allah not mention explicitly something important as (the period of time for) prayer?" is left aside. Now you seem to drop this explicit reading of the Quran. And moreover, now you seem to make use yourself of my earlier explained understanding that Allah (and the Quranic language) is not solely literal and explicit word by word in the Quran. Because here you make the connection yourself that this verse that speaks about fasting can also be used to indicate the time of fajr prayer.

Daily Salat- Salatul Isha (Evening Prayer) :
Name of the Salah :
[024:058] O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the evening prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does God make clear the Signs to you: for God is full of knowledge and wisdom.
Time of the Salah:
[017:078] Perform the prayer at the sinking of the sun to the darkening of the night and the recital of dawn; surely the recital of dawn is witnessed.

Your wrong here, even by your own approach to the Quran. Take a careful look.

In the first verse it reads: salat al-'isha (night prayer). Now try to look up the word 'isha and what it means in several dictionairies what the period of time concerned. They will define it: "when the red thread has dissapeared from the sky". Not earlier than that. Now take a look at the verse that you use a proof for the period of time of 'isha prayer:
17:78 Perform the prayer at the sinking of the sun to the darkening of the night...

"Li duluk" is used as "going down of the sun". This is not when the red thread has dissapeared from the sky dear brother. This is earlier. The sinking of the sun starts earlier, after that the sky becomes red. Therefore it does not fit the definition of 'isha or 'isha prayer. The sinking of the sun is before 'isha. It is later on the red thread from the sky dissapears slowly in order to become (fully) dark at the end.

Obviously this verse does not fit salat al-'isha. 'Isha is later than the actual moment the sun starts to go down. And verse 17:78 starts with "li", from the sinking of the sun... until the the full darkness of night (ghasaqa).

Special Salah- Slaltul Wusta (The middle Prayer) :
Name of the Salah :
[002:238] Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before God in a devout (frame of mind).
Time of the Salah:
[062:009] O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of God, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!


[062:010] And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of God: and celebrate the Praises of God often (and without stint): that ye may prosper.

The above verse speaks very clearly only about Friday prayer, one day a week.
You told me there were three prayers in the Quran, I assume you meant 3 prayers that should be prayed every day by Muslims right? If you use this verse as a proof you just have three prayers on a Friday. The other six days of the week two prayers.
Because verse 61:9 speaks very clearly about one day a week, Friday, day of assembly

Another important note: the verse does not specify when the prayer should be prayed. It mentions nowhere "middle of the day", of even "middle of the business".
Just while doing business. Could one pray it at 9 in the morning as well? That is after fajr obviously, and before it has gotten dark (isha).

PS: I finished my reply earlier but just before posting it I closed by accident my browser and lost my whole post. That explains this late response of mine. Excusez moi.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

Shia and Sunni do not doubt the Qur'an, it's just not everything is set step by step. For example, without ahadith, how would Muslims know how to pray...?

 

[Union]

Salam bro . Our discussion seems like getting interesting gradually . I need to answer the last part of your post first because you need a clarification of my position about Salah . Here is my opinion about Salah , of course deduced from the glorious Quran –


02 Daily Salah , e.g., Fajr Salah and Isha Salah . Verse 24.58 , 17.78,11.114 all are talking about these 02 Salah only .
01 Special Salah e.g., Wusta Salah . It is mentioned specially in verse 2.238 and verse 62.09-10 discussed it.


In this very moment I like to remind you again , which is in fact also the basic of my argument of 03 Saalah theory , that ALLAH , swt , mentioned only three names of Salah in the Quran and also discussed their timing in the related verses . If there could be 05 times Salah , HE , the Exalted couldn’t have left other 02 names because ALLAH, swt, can’t give an incomplete information about Salah , which is compulsory for the Muslims .

Anyway , let me proceed now ….

I personally find it cherry-picking to insist on "salat" (prayer) being used by Allah in order to recognize it as a single prayer, but when it comes down to the period of time when this prayer should be prayed you pick a verse where is not spoken about prayer in any way. The above verse, 2:187, is about fasting. Prayer is nowhere mentioned. Neither that this should be the time for fajr prayer.
One might ask critically: how do you know for sure fajr starts at this time? Allah does not mention it explicitly does He? And why do you insist on a explicit-literal reading when one thing concerned (names of prayers) and drop it when it comes down to finding the period of time.

When you are starting off from the point that "if Allah does not explicitly mention prayer I just dont recognize it as such", it is strange you leave this method when the actual time of prayer should be understood. All of a sudden the question "would Allah not mention explicitly something important as (the period of time for) prayer?" is left aside. Now you seem to drop this explicit reading of the Quran. And moreover, now you seem to make use yourself of my earlier explained understanding that Allah (and the Quranic language) is not solely literal and explicit word by word in the Quran. Because here you make the connection yourself that this verse that speaks about fasting can also be used to indicate the time of fajr prayer.

Verse 2.187 mentioned the timing of Fajr , hence it is related to the Fajr Salah . Fajr timing doesn’t differ for fasting nor for Salah . It is a natural phenomenon , hence same for anything . Any verse related to Fajr timing is also helpful to deduce the timing of Salah at that time. Having said that let us now try to locate the Fajr timing in a day . However there is a verse in the Quran which explicitly talked about the time of Fajr . That verse is 11.114 , which is very instrumental to understand the timing of Fajr and Isha Salah . The noble verse says –

11:114 واقم الصلاة طرفي النهار وزلفا من الليل ان الحسنات يذهبن السيئات ذلك ذكرى للذاكرين

[011:114] And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and <which> at the approaches of the night: For those things, that are good remove those that are evil: Be that the word of remembrance to those who remember (their Lord):


The Arabic word Tarafi is in dual form and meaning the extreme two parts , here of the day . The latter parts explain that these extreme ends of the day is the nearest parts of the night <Zulfa min Al-Lail> . Hence , the 01st salah in first extreme of the day attached with the night . It is meaning that when the darkness of the night starts disappearing and light of the day becomes visible , that is the start of the Salah till the darkness of the night totally disappears and the brightness of the day prevails in that place .



The same natural phenomenon is described in the noble verse 2.187 . It says that Fajr contains both white and dark thread of light in the sky . People should recognize Fajr by observing this by the first white thread of light from the black thread of darkness . In a course of minutes the black thread of darkness will disappear and only white thread of light will be visible in the sky , which implies the end of Fajr period .
Verse 11.114 and 2.187 are in 100% in-line to understand the time frame of Fajr Salah . Hence as you alleged wrongly , GOD never let us wandering in the middle of nowhere for this Fajr period rather HE , the Exalted gave us sufficient information about that .

Your wrong here, even by your own approach to the Quran. Take a careful look.

In the first verse it reads: salat al-'isha (night prayer). Now try to look up the word 'isha and what it means in several dictionairies what the period of time concerned. They will define it: "when the red thread has dissapeared from the sky". Not earlier than that. Now take a look at the verse that you use a proof for the period of time of 'isha prayer:

17:78 Perform the prayer at the sinking of the sun to the darkening of the night...

"Li duluk" is used as "going down of the sun". This is not when the red thread has dissapeared from the sky dear brother. This is earlier. The sinking of the sun starts earlier, after that the sky becomes red. Therefore it does not fit the definition of 'isha or 'isha prayer. The sinking of the sun is before 'isha. It is later on the red thread from the sky dissapears slowly in order to become (fully) dark at the end.

Obviously this verse does not fit salat al-'isha. 'Isha is later than the actual moment the sun starts to go down. And verse 17:78 starts with "li", from the sinking of the sun... until the the full darkness of night (ghasaqa).

I don’t know from where you got that definition of ISha time but could be one of the definition but not the only one. You can see Lane’s Lexicon work to study how varieties the use of Isha term is . Here are the links for you which will help you in this regard :

http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000339.pdf
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000340.pdf
http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000341.pdf

In Hans Wehr’s dictionary , you can also see av varieties of meanings of Isha , Arabic-English Dictionary: The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic - Noorart

A very widely accepted meaning of Isha is evening . And we know astronomically evening starts before the sunset , between afternoon and night fall . I also need to know what do you think about the word ‘Dhulk’ mentioned in verse 17.78, is it the sun set or sun’s declination from the Zenith . Let me know .

However , lets look back at the Qur’an and try to settle down the issue . There are several reasons , why 17.78 concerns Isha Salah , because :

01- There is only one Salah , namely Isha Salah mentioned in the Qur’an which fits in that time frame . If there could be another Salah , allegedly Maghrib Salah , Almighty ALLAH could have mentioned it in HIS book , which we don’t find in reality .


02- Verse 11.114 confirms the time of Isha Salah being the last extreme end of the day associated to the night . Almighty ALLAH given us the time frame of the Salah mentioned 11.1114 in 17.78 .


03- Maghrib is a noun derived from the root ‘&#1594; &#1585; &#1576;’ . In Qur’an you can find plenty of application of this term in its different forms but not a single time Almighty ALLAH has associated this word with Salah , e.g. , Salatul Maghreeb , Salatul Ghurb etc. Did GOD forget to mention that ? Can it be possible while HE , exalted emphasized about Slah in hundreds of verses and made it compulsory for us BUT silent about the Maghreeb Salah while HE , the Exalted also discussed this timing of Maghreeb for so many other purposes ? Think my brother , think rationally , with an open heart .


Cont..

 

[Union]

The above verse speaks very clearly only about Friday prayer, one day a week.
You told me there were three prayers in the Quran, I assume you meant 3 prayers that should be prayed every day by Muslims right? If you use this verse as a proof you just have three prayers on a Friday. The other six days of the week two prayers.
Because verse 61:9 speaks very clearly about one day a week, Friday, day of assembly

Another important note: the verse does not specify when the prayer should be prayed. It mentions nowhere "middle of the day", of even "middle of the business".
Just while doing business. Could one pray it at 9 in the morning as well? That is after fajr obviously, and before it has gotten dark (isha).

PS: I finished my reply earlier but just before posting it I closed by accident my browser and lost my whole post. That explains this late response of mine. Excusez moi.

I think I clarify my position about Salah in the beginning of the post . Yes I regard 02 times of Salah daily and 03 Salah on day of the Assembly only .
When Almighty ALLAH named it ‘ Middle’ Salah , we must inquisitive on , middle with respect to what ? The simple answer is , it is middle with respect to other Salah HE , the Exalted mentioned in the Qur’an . As we can see , there are two other names of Salah , which are Dawn Salah and Evening Salah , now we know that that special Salah of day of the Assembly must in half-a-way between them . For example , if the Fajr Salah is at 06:00 hrs and Isha is 18:00 hrs in winter , hence the Wusta Salah is just in half way in beween which is on 12:00 hrs . If it is summer and the Fajr Salah is at 4:30 hrs and Isha Salah is 19:30 hrs , hence the Wusta salah will be at around 13:30 hrs .

I have so many things to say but for now I am running short of time . I have to enagae myself in other business too …



Thanks for you patience Alulu .

 

[Union]

Shia and Sunni do not doubt the Qur'an, it's just not everything is set step by step. For example, without ahadith, how would Muslims know how to pray...?

Salam dear . You already set up the example of doubt in your post . Almighty ALLAH discussed the prayer (Salah) in more than hundred verses of the Qur'an , still you say you don't know how to pray from Qur'an .

Shia/Sunni prayer is different than the Pryer mentioned in the Qur'an because they followed the laws/rules imposed by their Imams not by GOD , swt.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

[002:002] That is the Book, wherein is no doubt, a guidance to the God-fearing.

So Almighty ALLAH instructs us not to doubt about the Qur’an . Still people possess multi folds of doubt about it .

Doubts of disbelievers:
01- It is not from GOD.
02-It was fabricated by Prophet Muhammad.
03- It contains so many nonsense, contradictions and errors etc.


Doubts of Shia/Sunni :
01- It is insufficient.
02- It is difficult to comprehend.
03- It is useless without Hadith/Sunnah.
04- It contains incomplete information .


Doubts of Quranist :
NIL. Quranist never possess any doubt about Quran’s sufficiency and divinely source . They are the only people who actually maintain the right of verse 2:2 .


Thanks.

1. Doubt of dibelivers
-Really? Why do you think that they were called disbeliever??
2. Doubt of Sunni/Shia??
-Really? I never heard Muslim that have doubt in Al-Quran. Muslim that
disbelieve in Al-Quran can void their faith.

Your post is pointless.

 

[Union]

1. Doubt of dibelivers
-Really? Why do you think that they were called disbeliever??

Disbelievers = Non-Muslim

2. Doubt of Sunni/Shia??
-Really? I never heard Muslim that have doubt in Al-Quran. Muslim that
disbelieve in Al-Quran can void their faith.

Your post is pointless.

I listed the points on what they doubt . Okay , let us go for an example for pertaining the issue , tell me what is the punishment of adultery do the Shia/Sunni adopt ?

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Disbelievers = Non-Muslim



I listed the points on what they doubt . Okay , let us go for an example for pertaining the issue , tell me what is the punishment of adultery do the Shia/Sunni adopt ?

1. They have doubt about it. That make them disbeliever.
2. Same goes to muslim that have doubt about it. They're also in disbeliever.

Adultry:
I'm Sunni.
1.Death penalty(married)
2.Public caning.

*My english is not very good. You can inform me if there's writing mistake.

 

[AhmadSyahir]

Salam dear . You already set up the example of doubt in your post . Almighty ALLAH discussed the prayer (Salah) in more than hundred verses of the Qur'an , still you say you don't know how to pray from Qur'an .

Shia/Sunni prayer is different than the Pryer mentioned in the Qur'an because they followed the laws/rules imposed by their Imams not by GOD , swt.

You're wrong. Don't act that you know if you don't. She's right. How to perform Solah was in the hadith. Allah told us to perform Solah and when to. Allah is the most intelligent. That is why muslim hold on to Quran and Sunnah(hadith).

 

[Union]

1. They have doubt about it. That make them disbeliever.
2. Same goes to muslim that have doubt about it. They're also in disbeliever.

Adultry:
I'm Sunni.
1.Death penalty(married)
2.Public caning.

*My english is not very good. You can inform me if there's writing mistake.

Firstly , your English is fine , even may be better than mine .
Then , you serve the purpose . Being a Sunni you believe that for a married adulterers and adulteress , the Punishment is death , of course you are going to accomplish it by stoning . Now show me a verse from the Qur'an where does it say so . Alternatively confirm me that Almighty ALLAH never addressed the punishment of Zina in the Qur'an , not at all ?

 

[Union]

You're wrong. Don't act that you know if you don't. She's right. How to perform Solah was in the hadith. Allah told us to perform Solah and when to. Allah is the most intelligent. That is why muslim hold on to Quran and Sunnah(hadith).

The method of Salah in Hadith is taught by Bukhari , Muslim, Tirmidhi etc.
The method of Salah in Qur'an is taught by Almighty ALLAH .
Choice is yours , whomever you want to follow ....

 

[Landerage]

The method of Salah in Hadith is taught by Bukhari , Muslim, Tirmidhi etc.
The method of Salah in Qur'an is taught by Almighty ALLAH .
Choice is yours , whomever you want to follow ....

Those who disobey God or the prophet are punished in Hell. The goal is eventualy to pray. Allah and the prophet insist on unity, including in prayers. Most muslims pray the prophet's way, because his wisdom comes from God. Now if you want to purposely disagree with most of muslims, and pray in another way, that means you are breaking the unity between Islam. If you had no intentions to break the unity lf Islam, or praying in a different way or at different time, for other reasons that you consider more wise then the prophet's (which i doubt) then God might accept that prayer, if the will is only in the intention of getting closer to God.
However I find no wisdom in breaking the unity of Islam, and making another way of praying simply because the glorious Quran dont list all the details. After all, God gave us brain to be logical, and to use that wisdom.

 

[Union]

Those who disobey God or the prophet are punished in Hell. The goal is eventualy to pray. Allah and the prophet insist on unity, including in prayers. Most muslims pray the prophet's way, because his wisdom comes from God. Now if you want to purposely disagree with most of muslims, and pray in another way, that means you are breaking the unity between Islam. If you had no intentions to break the unity lf Islam, or praying in a different way or at different time, for other reasons that you consider more wise then the prophet's (which i doubt) then God might accept that prayer, if the will is only in the intention of getting closer to God.
However I find no wisdom in breaking the unity of Islam, and making another way of praying simply because the glorious Quran dont list all the details. After all, God gave us brain to be logical, and to use that wisdom.

Unity is not a concern when truth and false must be separated . A million people can be united in favor of a wrong thing while only one can may differ . It doesn't mean that that little one must join the million to accept the falsehood only for the sake of unity . Having said that I will like address you on two important things :

01. Ahadith are not the words and actions of the Prophet , rather they are guess works and conjectures , made up almost +200 years after the demise of the Prophet . Even not a single companion of the Prophet alive when the Hadith was compiled and circulated .

02. Prophet Muhammad lived Qur'an , talked Qur'an , walked Qur'an and died leaving ONLY Qur'an .Hence to follow him we have to follow the Qur'an , the way it is , doesn't matter how different it is from the hadith .

Please read the following set of verses , how Almighty ALLAH warned us in this respect . Please read and ponder :

[006:114] Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained ? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.

[006:115] Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
[006:116] If thou obeyedst most of those on earth they would mislead thee far from Allah's way. They follow naught but an opinion, and they do but guess.
[006:117] Lo! thy Lord, He knoweth best who erreth from His way; and He knoweth best (who are) the rightly guided.

 

[Landerage]

I think the prayer that 90% of muslim practise, is the way that prophet Muhammad pbuh practised. Is there something wrong or offending in it in ur opinion? If so, please explain and tell me what would be a better alternative, and proove it is better. If not, then stick to the unity of muslims, and pray the way that 90% of muslims agree to.

 

[Union]

I think the prayer that 90% of muslim practise, is the way that prophet Muhammad pbuh practised. Is there something wrong or offending in it in ur opinion? If so, please explain and tell me what would be a better alternative, and proove it is better. If not, then stick to the unity of muslims, and pray the way that 90% of muslims agree to.

Earlier I was telling a brother that Prophet Muhammad followed the Qur'an and it was mandatory for him . Here are few instances from the Qur'an where Almighty ALLAH had made it compulsory for the Prophet to abide by the Qur'an only :

[006:050] Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of God, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?

[010:015] But when Our Clear Signs are rehearsed unto them, those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, Say: "Bring us a Quran other than this, or change this," Say: "It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it: I follow naught but what is revealed unto me: if I were to disobey my Lord, I should myself fear the penalty of a Great Day (to come)."

[046:009] Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the apostles, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."

Hence if we need to follow Prophet Muhammad , we have to follow the Qur'an as he followed it . The following verses also confirmed that Prophet Muhammad ruled in the society according to the Qur'an :

[005:048] To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

[005:049] And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which God hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is God's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.

Therefore the Salah of Prophet is the Salah as mentioedn in the Qur'an per ALLAH ,swt .

There is no doubt that Salah prescribed by Almighty ALLAH will be some trillion times better than the Salah prescribed by Imams of Hadith . If you can really continue , believe me it will be a very interesting subject to exchange , 'Salah in Qur'an'. Shia/Sunni never showed any interest to know about it from the Qur'an .

To start this , may I can ask you that how many names of Salah can be found in the Qur'an ? Note that I am asking the names of Salah only , nothing more about it . I am sure you have studied much about the Salah from your Hadith books , but now I want you to read about the Salah from the Qur'an . I will wait for your reply .

 

[Landerage]

To be honest, i dont know how many names of Salah can be found ithe Qur'an, but i would love if you enlighten me.
But i have some questions, do u agree that the Salah of the sunna, is the same way of prophet Muhammad pbuh have practised?
Do you agree that God judge us on our will and not our actions? So your comparision of another better prayer by a trillion time then the one we know, wouldnt that be very exagerated? since God will judge on the will? Some people praying only with their heart, might get better deeds then those praying with their body without their heart. Do you agree on that?
And what is the better form for the Salah? Are you talking theoricaly or is there really a better form?

 

[Union]

To be honest, i dont know how many names of Salah can be found ithe Qur'an, but i would love if you enlighten me. [/quite]

And I would love to do that . There are three names of Salah can be found in the Qur'an . These are :

01- Salatul Fajr (Dawn Salah) in 24:58
02-Salatul Isha (Evening Salah) in 24:58 again
03- Salatul Wusta (Middle Salah) in 2:238

Now you imagine how Almighty ALLAH started contradicting with Bukhari , Muslim, Tirmidhi etc. ALLAH's , swt, 03 times Salah versus Bukhari's 05 times Salah... :yes:

But i have some questions, do u agree that the Salah of the sunna, is the same way of prophet Muhammad pbuh have practised?

No. As I already told you with the supports of ample verses of the Qur'an that the Sunnah of the Prophet is the Qur'an . He followed Qur'an and he taught Qur'an , hence his salah is found in the Qur'an , not in Hadith which were composed +200 years latter by some unknown third hand persons who never saw the prophet nor met any of his companions .

I believe , there is one Hadith exists where the mother of the believers Ayesha was asked about the life of the Prophet and she told the questioner that they should read the Qur'an because Prophet's life is Qur'an . I didn't look at the source of the Hadith nor I need to give importance to it because I have ample verses Qur'an say so , just mentioned it to create a thought in your mind .

Do you agree that God judge us on our will and not our actions? So your comparision of another better prayer by a trillion time then the one we know, wouldnt that be very exagerated? since God will judge on the will? Some people praying only with their heart, might get better deeds then those praying with their body without their heart. Do you agree on that?

I agree with you on that . But it is applicable only for those who are ignorant of the differences between the Quranic menthod of Salah and Hadithic method of Salah . It doesn't matter how sincere I am in my prayer , if I choose to ignore what ALLAH , swt , taught us to pray and follow what our Imam taught us to pray, it will be regarded as an offense to GOD , the Majestic .

And what is the better form for the Salah? Are you talking theoricaly or is there really a better form?

Ofcourse Qur'an is a practical book ,hence the Salah in Qur'an is physical and the best ..
here is a link for you where Salah in Qur'an described very briefly . If you need more elaboration I would love to be there anytime you call me .

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/same-faith-debates/83297-muslims-only-hadiths-saying-enemies-prophet.html

 

[Landerage]

To be honest, i dont know how many names of Salah can be found ithe Qur'an, but i would love if you enlighten me. [/quite]

And I would love to do that . There are three names of Salah can be found in the Qur'an . These are :

01- Salatul Fajr (Dawn Salah) in 24:58
02-Salatul Isha (Evening Salah) in 24:58 again
03- Salatul Wusta (Middle Salah) in 2:238

Now you imagine how Almighty ALLAH started contradicting with Bukhari , Muslim, Tirmidhi etc. ALLAH's , swt, 03 times Salah versus Bukhari's 05 times Salah... :yes:



No. As I already told you with the supports of ample verses of the Qur'an that the Sunnah of the Prophet is the Qur'an . He followed Qur'an and he taught Qur'an , hence his salah is found in the Qur'an , not in Hadith which were composed +200 years latter by some unknown third hand persons who never saw the prophet nor met any of his companions .

I believe , there is one Hadith exists where the mother of the believers Ayesha was asked about the life of the Prophet and she told the questioner that they should read the Qur'an because Prophet's life is Qur'an . I didn't look at the source of the Hadith nor I need to give importance to it because I have ample verses Qur'an say so , just mentioned it to create a thought in your mind .



I agree with you on that . But it is applicable only for those who are ignorant of the differences between the Quranic menthod of Salah and Hadithic method of Salah . It doesn't matter how sincere I am in my prayer , if I choose to ignore what ALLAH , swt , taught us to pray and follow what our Imam taught us to pray, it will be regarded as an offense to GOD , the Majestic .



Ofcourse Qur'an is a practical book ,hence the Salah in Qur'an is physical and the best ..
here is a link for you where Salah in Qur'an described very briefly . If you need more elaboration I would love to be there anytime you call me .

[URL]http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/same-faith-debates/83297-muslims-only-hadiths-saying-enemies-prophet.html[/URL]

So 5 prayers isn't better then 3 ?

You beleive the Qur'an was very well preserved by the companion and the good willing people that surrounded prophet Muhammed pbuh , and kept it intact from 1400 years ago till now. But you dont beleive that those same companions have preserved the way the prophet prayed?
This hadith referred to the prophet, is Aysha comparing the prophet to a "living Qur'an".
I will check the link in a few days because I dont have time atm although it's pretty important. I will tell u what i think in PM

 

[Union]

So 5 prayers isn't better then 3 ?

It depends on how you look at it . I believe Almighty ALLAH to be the best law giver and hence deem 03 Salah is the best and you believe that your Imams are the best law givers hence 05 is for you , what I need more to say...

You beleive the Qur'an was very well preserved by the companion and the good willing people that surrounded prophet Muhammed pbuh , and kept it intact from 1400 years ago till now. But you dont beleive that those same companions have preserved the way the prophet prayed?

The companions of the Prophet were the direct witnesses of the Prophet and his life . They compiled the Qur'an , coded it in the hard coy and spread it all around the world . Still today thousands of those original manuscripts exist in public disposal . They knew it very well that not only prayer but Prophet's whole life is coded in Quran , hence they invested their all efforts to preserve the Qur'an for the future generations .

On the other hand not a single page of Hadith manuscript ever been left by any of the companions of the Prophet . If Hadith is really important for us the companions of the Prophet must have written them and preserved them for us as they did for the Quran . But such is not the case . Please think rationally dear bro.