A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
More yummy spam.
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No Evidence for 1st Century Nazareth
- Thread starter godnotgod
- Start date
More yummy spam.
godnotgod
Thou art That
I see. So you are one of those guru-for-hire dudes.
Dime a dozen.
It's the free stuff that is priceless, but I would'nt expect a hi-priced pie in the sky 'scholar' like yourself to understand.
Here is a valuable lesson for the likes of your kind, for free, even. Careful: it has a tendency to make a person humble:
A student put across a query to Sozan, a Chinese Zen Master, "What is the most valuable thing in the world?"
The master replied: "The head of a dead cat."
The student asked, "Why is the head of a dead cat the most valuable thing in the world?".
"Because no one can say its price." said Sozan.
Ehrman? Why should I go to Ehrman when I've got the universe?
godnotgod
Thou art That
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
I see. So you are one of those guru-for-hire dudes.
Dime a dozen.
It's the free stuff that is priceless, but I would'nt expect a hi-priced pie in the sky 'scholar' like yourself to understand.
Here is a valuable lesson for the likes of your kind, for free, even. Careful: it has a tendency to make a person humble:
A student put across a query to Sozan, a Chinese Zen Master, "What is the most valuable thing in the world?"
The master replied: "The head of a dead cat."
The student asked, "Why is the head of a dead cat the most valuable thing in the world?".
"Because no one can say its price." said Sozan.
Ehrman? Why should I go to Ehrman when I've got the universe?
Run out of stuff online to spam?
What we get here isn't any better.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Hungry for more, I see. Be patient. While you're waiting, why'ncha post something to chew on yourself?
I did'nt think you'd get it. You're too involved with 'Got Angellous?'
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godnotgod
Thou art That
Today's Chef's Menu is Grain-Fed Josephus with added Christian Spam. Wash it all down with a cold drink of water from Mary's Well in Nazareth. Bon apetit!
Josephus' Testimony to Jesus
(Testimonium Flavianum)
Josephus, Antiquities 18. 63-64
The words in ALL CAPS are likely interpolations added by Christian copyists over the centuries in an attempt to make Josephus support faith in Jesus as the Christ. We have only three Greek manuscripts of this section of Josephus, all from the 11th century. These phrases, added rather clumsily, appear to be rather obvious additions even to the modern reader in English. Once restored to its more original reading Josephus offers us a most fascinating reference to Jesus. Indeed, it is the earliest reference to Jesus outside the New Testament, and its rather matter of fact, neutral reporting, makes it all the more valuable to the historian. It is worth noting that in his earlier work, The Jewish War, written shortly after the revolt under the auspices of the Emperor Vespasian, he mentioned neither Jesus, nor John the Baptist, nor James, while in Antiquities, written in the early 90s C.E., he mentions all three. For an excellent discussion of this text see John Meier, A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus (Doubleday, 1991), Vol I, pp. 57-88.
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man IF IT BE LAWFUL TO CALL HIM A MAN, for he was a doer of wonders, A TEACHER OF SUCH MEN AS RECEIVE THE TRUTH WITH PLEASURE. He drew many after him BOTH OF THE JEWS AND THE GENTILES. HE WAS THE CHRIST. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, FOR HE APPEARED TO THEM ALIVE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY, AS THE DIVINE PROPHETS HAD FORETOLD THESE AND TEN THOUSAND OTHER WONDERFUL THINGS ABOUT HIM, and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day (Antiquities 18:63-64).
Professor Shlomo Pines found a different version of Josephus testimony in an Arabic version of the tenth century. It has obviously not been interpolated in the same way as the Christian version circulating in the West:
At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders.
Josephus'Testimony to Jesus
Josephus' Testimony to Jesus
(Testimonium Flavianum)
Josephus, Antiquities 18. 63-64
The words in ALL CAPS are likely interpolations added by Christian copyists over the centuries in an attempt to make Josephus support faith in Jesus as the Christ. We have only three Greek manuscripts of this section of Josephus, all from the 11th century. These phrases, added rather clumsily, appear to be rather obvious additions even to the modern reader in English. Once restored to its more original reading Josephus offers us a most fascinating reference to Jesus. Indeed, it is the earliest reference to Jesus outside the New Testament, and its rather matter of fact, neutral reporting, makes it all the more valuable to the historian. It is worth noting that in his earlier work, The Jewish War, written shortly after the revolt under the auspices of the Emperor Vespasian, he mentioned neither Jesus, nor John the Baptist, nor James, while in Antiquities, written in the early 90s C.E., he mentions all three. For an excellent discussion of this text see John Meier, A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus (Doubleday, 1991), Vol I, pp. 57-88.
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man IF IT BE LAWFUL TO CALL HIM A MAN, for he was a doer of wonders, A TEACHER OF SUCH MEN AS RECEIVE THE TRUTH WITH PLEASURE. He drew many after him BOTH OF THE JEWS AND THE GENTILES. HE WAS THE CHRIST. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, FOR HE APPEARED TO THEM ALIVE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY, AS THE DIVINE PROPHETS HAD FORETOLD THESE AND TEN THOUSAND OTHER WONDERFUL THINGS ABOUT HIM, and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day (Antiquities 18:63-64).
Professor Shlomo Pines found a different version of Josephus testimony in an Arabic version of the tenth century. It has obviously not been interpolated in the same way as the Christian version circulating in the West:
At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders.
Josephus'Testimony to Jesus
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You do me a great disservice, my friend: the inane comments of those on my ignore list gain visiblity when you quote them. Let me briefly declassify one of the ignored so that I might suggest a more humane approach:
Now, should one wish to reference a particular post, one might simply offer ... ... thereby supplying both the reference and an appropriate apology without further pollution. It's just a thought.
And now, to restore the classification ...
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Consider it done, Jay.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
godnotgod- You know what you said on your post about Josephus is what I have been saying all along. In fact, if you took time to read my thread on the subject, you would see that was what I have been saying. And the greatest part, you don't have to pay to look at my thread; it's totally free information.
What Josephus shows though is that there really is no reason to doubt that Jesus existed. And in fact, it actually shows that your position simply is not very logical when concerning Jesus.
What Josephus shows though is that there really is no reason to doubt that Jesus existed. And in fact, it actually shows that your position simply is not very logical when concerning Jesus.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
And godnotgod, if you had any culture at all you would have known that I was alluding to this:
[youtube]pGL2rytTraA[/youtube]
Kelis - Milkshake - YouTube
[youtube]pGL2rytTraA[/youtube]
Kelis - Milkshake - YouTube
Tellurian
Active Member
Today's Chef's Menu is Grain-Fed Josephus with added Christian Spam. Wash it all down with a cold drink of water from Mary's Well in Nazareth. Bon apetit!
Josephus' Testimony to Jesus
(Testimonium Flavianum)
Josephus, Antiquities 18. 63-64
The words in ALL CAPS are likely interpolations added by Christian copyists over the centuries in an attempt to make Josephus support faith in Jesus as the Christ. We have only three Greek manuscripts of this section of Josephus, all from the 11th century. These phrases, added rather clumsily, appear to be rather obvious additions even to the modern reader in English. Once restored to its more original reading Josephus offers us a most fascinating reference to Jesus. Indeed, it is the earliest reference to Jesus outside the New Testament, and its rather matter of fact, neutral reporting, makes it all the more valuable to the historian. It is worth noting that in his earlier work, The Jewish War, written shortly after the revolt under the auspices of the Emperor Vespasian, he mentioned neither Jesus, nor John the Baptist, nor James, while in Antiquities, written in the early 90s C.E., he mentions all three. For an excellent discussion of this text see John Meier, A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus (Doubleday, 1991), Vol I, pp. 57-88.
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man IF IT BE LAWFUL TO CALL HIM A MAN, for he was a doer of wonders, A TEACHER OF SUCH MEN AS RECEIVE THE TRUTH WITH PLEASURE. He drew many after him BOTH OF THE JEWS AND THE GENTILES. HE WAS THE CHRIST. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, FOR HE APPEARED TO THEM ALIVE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY, AS THE DIVINE PROPHETS HAD FORETOLD THESE AND TEN THOUSAND OTHER WONDERFUL THINGS ABOUT HIM, and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day (Antiquities 18:63-64).
Professor Shlomo Pines found a different version of Josephus testimony in an Arabic version of the tenth century. It has obviously not been interpolated in the same way as the Christian version circulating in the West:
At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders.
Josephus'Testimony to Jesus
Of course Monsignor John Meier of Catholic University is not going to admit the whole of the biblical Jesus redacted interpolation is a forgery. He is obviously just trying to salvage some of it in order to prove the existence of the fictional, composite Jesus of the gospels.
Finding the Historical Jesus: An Interview With John P. Meier - December 1997 Issue of St. Anthony Messenger Magazine Online
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
If you don't have a real rebuttal, it is fine not to respond.
You should not project your standards onto others.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Well cut off my legs and call me shorty.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
You guys (Tertullian and godnotgod) need to work on your comedic timing.
Tellurian
Active Member
Of course you do not want me to reply because I am always pointing out the problems with your "beliefs". but a_e wants me to reply so he can throw some more ad hominems into the thread.
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I don't think it will help. It's a bit like two guys butchering a mantra while chanting off-key.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Honestly, I want you to reply. I want you to actually address the problem instead of just brushing it off. You have yet made a logical response to my thread on the subject, or even my response to the two links your provided on the subject. All you have done is repeated yourself that the TF is a forgery, and haven't backed it up. Your last post was a great example in which you just dismiss, and provide no support.
But if you are just going to dodge, dismiss, run away, cower in a corner, whine, avoid, and make asinine comments, yeah, I wouldn't mind if you stopped saying anything. Why? Because you aren't going anywhere. You just run around in a circle, trying to bite your tail until everyone else just gets tired of laughing.
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
By no means. I never intended to insult you and I'm sorry that you read it like that.
Think of it as an evaluation of the performance. One can be displeased with the performance but have the highest regard for the performer.
Your performance has not been entertaining, but I don't know anything at all about your character, so I don't comment on it.
Tellurian
Active Member
I have given you explanations, and knowing that you would reject my explanations as just being my opinions, I have also provided links to other sources with academic references, but since those links do not say WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE, you simply ignore or denigrate them and eventually go into denial claiming that I have not provided any explanations. Contrary to what you claim, the majority of knowledgeable academic biblical scholars do acknowledge the Testimonium Flavianum as being a redacted interpolation. The fundamentalist Christians who are ignorant of the research results because they have never investigated the evidence still "believe" it to be legitimate and mistakenly use it as supposed "evidence" from outside of the bible for the existence of the fictional biblical Jesus. Other Christians desperately try to come up with modified versions of the TF in order to use it for external evidence that the fictional Jesus actually existed. Obviously you intend to remain in denial so why should I continue to try to enlighten you to the reality that has resulted in the general consensus that the TF was not written by Josephus?
As for the existence of Nazareth in the the first century the archaeology provides evidence that the stories about "Jesus of Nazareth" found in the gospels are simply NOT TRUE, because the Jewish community did not exist there in the early first century, but again you go into denial so you can hide from the reality you do not want to believe.