No Evidence for 1st Century Nazareth

[godnotgod]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

Most likely because he's smarter than you think.

 

[godnotgod]

If the following is true, it would clear up the confusion about a 1st Century Nazareth. This is the scenario I had thought might be the case, except that this is even more plausible, as it would also explain why there is virtually no archeological evidence:

The term "Nazarene" refers to a member of the Essene movement associated with Mount Carmel in Northern Israel. The Essenes considered Mount Carmel to be so holy that none of the natural vegetation growing there could be disturbed: no trees cut, no bushes cleared away, no permanent dwellings built. Some of their priests lived on Mount Carmel in tents (similar to yurts) but no permanent structures were permitted. Even their Temple atop Carmel was a type of large tent, a beautiful yurt with a bloodless altar. Only a small contingent of their priests actually lived atop Mount Carmel, the majority of their membership lived in an Essene cooperative village a couple miles from the southwestern edge of the base of the mountain. That Essene village was called "Nazareth". Those who lived there were called "Nazarenes", as were all members of the Essene sect associated with Mount Carmel. Thus, the fact that Jesus was referred to as "the Nazarene" and his first followers were called "the sect of the Nazarenes" demonstrates the link between early Christianity and the Essene Nazarenes of Mount Carmel.

http://www.essene.org/Yahowshua_or_Paul.htm

 

[Shermana]

Didn't we explain in hundreds of posts last year or so that this was exactly the case, a Tent City?

 

[godnotgod]

Didn't we explain in hundreds of posts last year or so that this was exactly the case, a Tent City?

Perhaps, but I hadn't yet gotten around to giving it my Imprimatura, LOL.

 

[oldbadger]

Didn't we explain in hundreds of posts last year or so that this was exactly the case, a Tent City?

I wasn't on RF for all of last year.
Do you think that Tent villages, towns, cities were 'usual' in Galilee in NT times?
This would suggest a Nomadic culture, surely?
I do believe that linseed farming must have been intensive, especially around the Lake, for the supply of flax for nets, sails and ropes, as well as clothing, belts, even rope sandals, possibly.... and I guess that such a crop could sustain tent making....?

What do you reckon they made tents out of? Am I wrong about linseed farming altogether?

OK..... if there was a massive linseed farming culture, then it could have extended far beyond the clothing and fishing industries to tent-making, which would then have provided almost everything required, save for food and various important stoneware and wooden items.

Could we revisit this whole idea of a tented Nazareth, and even tented communities all over Galilee? This might answer a lot more questions than just 'Was Naz real?'....

 

[godnotgod]

Do you think that Tent villages, towns, cities were 'usual' in Galilee in NT times?
This would suggest a Nomadic culture, surely?

The rationale for a 'tent city' is that, due to Mt. Carmel being holy ground, permanent structures were forbidden on the mountain. It was also forbidden to cut trees down, so no wooden houses could be built. The 'tents' appear to have been more like yurts, so a little more 'permanent' than tents. From what I've seen, the only other 'permanent' structures allowable were the many natural caves higher up the mountain, where monks and their families lived. Mt. Carmel monastery was family-oriented, and the story goes that Yeshu lived here with Joseph and Mary.

See here for cave dwelling photos and other structures:

Ancient Essene Life

This is a yurt, but there are many designs, so this is only an idea of what may have been on Mt. Carmel:

 

[oldbadger]

The rationale for a 'tent city' is that, due to Mt. Carmel being holy ground, permanent structures were forbidden on the mountain. It was also forbidden to cut trees down, so no wooden houses could be built. The 'tents' appear to have been more like yurts, so a little more 'permanent' than tents. From what I've seen, the only other 'permanent' structures allowable were the many natural caves higher up the mountain, where monks and their families lived. Mt. Carmel monastery was family-oriented, and the story goes that Yeshu lived here with Joseph and Mary.

See here for cave dwelling photos and other structures:

Thanks for the info.........
I'll take it all into my HJ file.....

 

[outhouse]

I wasn't on RF for all of last year.
Do you think that Tent villages, towns, cities were 'usual' in Galilee in NT times?
This would suggest a Nomadic culture, surely?
I do believe that linseed farming must have been intensive, especially around the Lake, for the supply of flax for nets, sails and ropes, as well as clothing, belts, even rope sandals, possibly.... and I guess that such a crop could sustain tent making....?

What do you reckon they made tents out of? Am I wrong about linseed farming altogether?

OK..... if there was a massive linseed farming culture, then it could have extended far beyond the clothing and fishing industries to tent-making, which would then have provided almost everything required, save for food and various important stoneware and wooden items.

Could we revisit this whole idea of a tented Nazareth, and even tented communities all over Galilee? This might answer a lot more questions than just 'Was Naz real?'....

Satellite villages for the poor and oppressed while building and maintaining Sepphoris agricultural needs is almost fact. There was water there and no reason why people would not be living there when 10,000 to 20,000 people moved into the exact area because of Sepphoris.

Poor people might not have the money for a tent. But one could make shelter from fieldstones. And its what we see in other first century sites of the poor nearby.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Just because you have a single mss scrap dated earlier than the earliest Pe****ta text right now puts no nail in any coffin.

Well cut my legs off and call me shorty!

Which is it -- delusional, unable to read, or joking?

I vote joking. You must be joking.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well cut my legs off and call me shorty!

Which is it -- delusional, unable to read, or joking?

I vote joking. You must be joking.

ever charitable :clap

 

[godnotgod]

Satellite villages for the poor and oppressed while building and maintaining Sepphoris agricultural needs is almost fact. There was water there and no reason why people would not be living there when 10,000 to 20,000 people moved into the exact area because of Sepphoris.

Poor people might not have the money for a tent. But one could make shelter from fieldstones. And its what we see in other first century sites of the poor nearby.

Since, as we have seen, it was taboo to build permanent structures on holy Carmel, the Essene Nazarenes created a yurt village with a "Tent of the Presence" as Temple. Again, this "tent Temple" was no small American pup-tent; it was a large, many-roomed Yurt. BESIDES THE IMPERMANENT STRUCTURES ON MOUNT CARMEL ITSELF, A COUPLE OF MILES FROM THE SOUTHWESTERN EDGE OF CARMEL THE ESSENE NAZARENES BUILT A LARGE VILLAGE OF PERMANENT STRUCTURES: "Nazareth." Here, at Nazareth, many Essene-Nazarene families lived next to the spiritual center atop Carmel, visiting it regularly. The priests and more hardy families -- those capable of "roughing it" -- lived in the yurt village atop Carmel.

http://www.essene.org/Essenes_of_Mount_Carmel.htm
*****

Linking Yeshu to Mt. Carmel and the Nazarene/Nazorean Essenes:

B'nai-Amen

Historical references to the deeper monastic Order of the Nasarenes are found in the Book of John the Baptist, one of the more ancient scriptures of the Mandaen sect. These Mandeans call themselves Nasorai, or Nasoreans, and claim descent from the original Nasarenes to which both John the Baptist and Yeshua (Jesus) once belonged. In this Mandeaen Book of John the Baptist we find several references to Mt. Carmel and the Nasorean sect who once lived there:

"John has left his body, his brothers make proclamations, his brothers proclaim unto him on the Mount, on Mount Carmel. They took the Letter and brought it to the Mount, to Mount Carmel. They read out the Letter to them and explain to them the writing, - to those of Jacob (Yaqif) and those of B'nai-Amen and those of Samuel (Shumel). They assemble on Mount Carmel." (Book of John the Baptist 26)

Those of Jacob, the B'nai Amen, Samuel (and Elijah) represent different branches within the Essene-Nasorean group who had its main Temple and monastery on Mount Carmel. In another section of this same Mandeaen work we are told that the B'nai-Amen ("Children of God"), are the Mount Carmel group, or Order, especially connected with the Essene Temple there:

"Jacob leaves the House of the People; B'nai-Amen leaves the Temple; Elizar the great house leaves the dome of the priests." (Book of John the Baptist 27)

In the New Testament book of Revelations, the word Amen is used as a name for Deity, helping to explain why the Temple custodians on Mt. Carmel were called the disciples, or children of Amen - the B'nai-Amen. "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God." (Book of Revelations 3:14)

ttp://essene.com/B'nai-Amen/B'nai-AmenAndBeni-Zadok.htm
*****

....the same story from another source, now defunct:

THE ARAMAIC NAME of John the Baptist is Yuhana, and we learn from his book that when he died his death was reported to the Nazorean central Temple on Mt Carmel:


"Yuhana has left his body, his brothers make proclamations, his brothers proclaim unto him on the Mount, on Mount Carmel. They took the Letter and brought it to the Mount, to Mount Carmel. They read out the Letter to them and explain to them the writing, - to Yaqif (James) Beni-Amin (Yeshu) and Shumel (Samuel/Shimeon). They assemble on Mount Carmel." [1]



So in this ancient Aramaic scroll we have reference to the death of Yuhana being reported to three named Beni-Amin, Yaqif and Shimeon. These are the Aramaic names of Yeshu (Son of Amin[2] or Beni-Amin), and Yeshu’s two brothers James (Yaqif) and Shimeon (Shumel). All three brothers are connected with the sacred Mount of Carmel and with the temple there and would eventually lead the Nazorean Sect. At the death of such an important Nazorean as Yuhana, it was protocol that such be reported to the central Temple and to those who preside there. These three sons of Miryam[3] and Yoseph are the ones to which the death of Yuhana is reported to. The first of these brothers, Yeshu, is immediately appointed successor to Yuhana. After Yeshu’s death in 30 AD. the second brother James (Yaqif ) will assume leadership. When Yaqif is killed in 64 AD. the third brother Shumel will succeed him. Shumel himself was reportedly martyred in the reign of Trajan (98-117 AD), bringing to a close the presidency of these three sons of Miryam. They, with their female counterparts, presided over the Naziruthian system of enlightenment and purification for more than 70 years. Their home and seat of authority was the Temple at Carmel.


[1] Sidra Dyahya (Book Of John)/Drashe Dmalke (Discourses Of Kings) 26

[2] Amin, or Amun, was one name of the Nazorean’s Highest God. Beni meant “son of”.

[3] “Virgin” Mary

http://essenes.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=313&Itemid=612