no faith vs wrong faith

[Katzpur]

Im not so much as debating the existence of God but the concept of God more so the religions that "define" God. More so of the nature of God and of the fallibility and unfairness of Gods religions. I was referring to prophets. God communines with a prophet usually by vision, dream, or angel... that angel then preaches Gods word even producing miracles to back up their claim.

These prophets lived long before me, and no miracles have been witnessed an verified in my time. Ihave not witnessed any miracle nor anything to make it seem plausible. Holy books makes many claims as into the nature of this world most of these claims prove false, for sake of argument I'll assume man messed Gods message up. The claims of prophets and miracles loose creditability when science and observation and history discredit many of the other claims found in the same holy books. If the rest of said Holy books were shown to be accurate then even the miracles and prophets become more believable. It's not my fault Gods message got ruined and discredited by humans who lived and died way before me, nor is my fault God has never done anything to verify and show these claims to be true in my own time.

That's not fair. Why can not God let one of his followers provide a miracle for me? Water to wine would suffice. Why does God not speak to me? Or every other human for that matter?

Their are two many religions with contradictory or exclusive beliefs, all making claims about reality that are observably not true. Nor is their an indication for a need of God. If I am wrong, should i get punished for be realistic? punished for other peoples mistakes? I know im not perfect and have much to seek forgiveness for but i do my best, and had God made even a half ***** attempt to show me his love I would love. God has done nothing but let his message be corrupted by man and/or the devil.

I mean a book I can not verify the claims or events inside of the book, is that really the best God can do? Don't we deserve more?

Yeah, I can understand how you'd feel that way.

 

[Iti oj]

Yeah, I can understand how you'd feel that way.

Will their be more prophets and miracle workers? Shouldn't each generation have theirs?
Doesn't God gives his followers favors? Shouldn't it be clear who God favors?

Doesn't God give his followers blessings? Why are the most religious people usually the ones most lacking?

Does God offer any rewards, promises, gifts, blessing, etc besides eternal life?

Where is God I look every where and see nothing but broken promises and false claims. Where? Where is God?

I don't see God in nature, i don't see God in the lives of the faithful, and i don't see God in the words of any book. Where is God?

 

[Katzpur]

Will their be more prophets and miracle workers? Shouldn't each generation have theirs?

I believe there is a prophet on the earth right now. If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, it would only stand to reason that He wouldn't have stopped talking to us 2000 years ago.

Doesn't God gives his followers favors? Shouldn't it be clear who God favors?

I believe He blesses His followers, but I don't believe all of the blessings He has in store for us (any of us -- His followers and those who don't yet believe in Him) will be given to us in this lifetime.

Doesn't God give his followers blessings? Why are the most religious people usually the ones most lacking?

I didn't know we were.

Does God offer any rewards, promises, gifts, blessing, etc besides eternal life?

He does to me, but that's probably because I believe in Him.

Where is God I look every where and see nothing but broken promises and false claims. Where? Where is God?

I don't know. He's always been there for me.

I don't see God in nature, i don't see God in the lives of the faithful, and i don't see God in the words of any book. Where is God?

In Heaven.

Hey listen, I honestly don't care if you don't see God, His works or His goodness. I believe He's there and that He loves us. I really don't have anything more to say on the subject, but maybe someone else would be interested in picking up where I've left off.

 

[Iti oj]

I believe there is a prophet on the earth right now. If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, it would only stand to reason that He wouldn't have stopped talking to us 2000 years ago.

I believe He blesses His followers.

I didn't know we were.

He does to me, but that's probably because I believe in Him.

I don't know. He's always been there for me.

In Heaven.

Hey listen, I honestly don't care if you don't see God, His works or His goodness. I believe He's there and that He loves us. I really don't have anything more to say on the subject, but maybe someone else would be interested in picking up where I've left off.

look at socio economics around the world. America happens to be an anomaly among 1st world countries. Even look at the relious natures of the class divisions in America.

You know I use to be a catholic. Taught ccd alter served went on retreats/missions even enrolled in seminary school. God was never their for me, my friends family and self were. They are still their for me even with out my faith. I'm actually happier now. I never noticed. People tend to see what they want to see.maybe that holds true for me to. But i wanna see everything.
What are Gods blessings?
are the blessing in a none believers life from God too?

Heaven? is God not a part of his creation?

ohh ok :sad: well it was good talking to you.
If God loved me wouldn't he give you the insight to help me?

 

[javajo]

I thought I'd share something I believe, take it or leave it. I believe God can not only be seen in the wonder and complexity of creation and by our conscience, but by his many, precise and detailed prophecies that came true in real history. I believe God, who cannot lie, has preserved his Word for us forever despite man's and Satan's attempts to twist and destroy it. While we have some corrupt Bibles out there, we also have his Word preserved in others:

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Num.23:19
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Psalm 12:6-7
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Mat. 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever . 1 Peter 1:23

Furthermore, I believe that as that last verse says, we may be born again because of the word of God that lives and abides forever. That is the way everyone gets saved:

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim. 3:15

So I believe God's preserved Word, when we hear it, and by faith trust Christ, are given the free gift of salvation. I believe it works like this:

We realize we are a sinner:

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

Then we see:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23
But God commendeth his love for us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Then we learn the answer!:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. Peter 2:24
Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved , from Acts 16:30-31

It also says:

...and the blood of Christ cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

I believe the very first lie, in Genesis 3, was, "Yea, hath God said? The next was, "Ye shall not surely die." I believe and assure the reader that we can trust God to have preserved his word for us in the uncorrupted Bibles, and even the corrupted Bibles are 90% correct and still contain God's Word and anyone can read the Gospel and be saved by any version they read. So, my suggestion, and this helped me when I was young, is to read the Bible, especially beginning with the New Testament Epistles (Romans through Revelation) and John. But read through all the New Testament and just pray and ask the Holy Spirit to illuminate it for you, and just let it speak to you as God's Word. That has changed my life and I pray it may change yours as well. Again, this is all just my beliefs and you may take it or leave it.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm actually happier now....
If God loved me wouldn't he give you the insight to help me?

If you're happier now, why would you want help?

 

[bigbadgirl]

I see we are back from "no faith VS wrong faith" to "no faith VS Christianity". Why are so many considering Christianity the "wrong faith"?

 

[javajo]

I see we are back from "no faith VS wrong faith" to "no faith VS Christianity".

Ugh, (cringes) Sorry! The question was asked of Katzpur, "If God loved me wouldn't he give you the insight to help me?" and I just got to thinking and I bit. My apologies!!!

Why are so many considering Christianity the "wrong faith"?

Its the 'in' thing to do.

 

[bigbadgirl]

Belief is in the believer. If a person believes in no faith, it is as real as any faith. If the same person decides to choose a faith, they must choose between many. Maybe no faith, is the fact that a person cannot decide which faith is the right one. No faith is a seemingly safe choice, because it elimates the temptation to follow the wrong faith. I would rather have no faith than the wrong one.

 

[cablescavenger]

which is worse not believing in God/Allah?YWH or beiliving in the wrong form of God or another god(s) all together.

Pascals wager always made me wonder if the safe bet is on God because if you wrong so what but i god exist and you do not believe then the consequences are dire, but what about choosing the wrong god? Wouldn't atheism be the safe bet this way you do not risk offending the god by worshiping the wrong one?

Pascals wager suits me just fine. I was never much of a gambler, but I quite like the odds of certain death, with just the one life and dying at the end of it.

It is flawless, perfect, simple, honest, unambiguous, FREE, and easy to understand. It fits everything we know about the world, without contradiction. No inconsistency.

I would take that over Pascals bet any day of the week.

 

[javajo]

I would rather have no faith than the wrong one.

I'd rather just have the right faith.

 

[Agnostic75]

I'd rather just have the right faith.

I would rather have an explanation from you regarding how a global flood could have sorted heavy sediments on top of layers of lighter sediments, which would clearly violate the laws of gravity. I am referring to my post #111 in a thread at http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...sorting-fossils-sediments-12.html#post2697978 at the Evolution versus Creationism forum.

 

[javajo]

I would rather have an explanation from you regarding how a global flood could have sorted heavy sediments on top of layers of lighter sediments, which would clearly violate the laws of gravity. I am referring to my post #111 in a thread at http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...sorting-fossils-sediments-12.html#post2697978 at the Evolution versus Creationism forum.

Following people around and harassing them is considered bullying and I would ask you to please stop or I will have to report you.

Under rule #3:
2)posts that Target a person or group by following them around the forums to attack them. This is Bullying.

 

[Agnostic75]

Following people around and harassing them is considered bullying and I would ask you to please stop or I will have to report you.

Under rule #3:

2) Posts that Target a person or group by following them around the forums to attack them. This is Bullying.

Oh, ok. I will not do that anymore, except to say that the ways that fossils and sediments are sorted offers conclusive proof that a global flood defies the laws of gravity.

 

[javajo]

Oh, ok. I will not do that anymore, except to say that the ways that fossils and sediments are sorted offers conclusive proof that a global flood defies the laws of gravity.

Thank-you. I'm glad you have found conclusive proof for your findings about that.

 

[Iti oj]

I see we are back from "no faith VS wrong faith" to "no faith VS Christianity". Why are so many considering Christianity the "wrong faith"?

it seems christians are most interested in this thread. idk. i was hoping for more of a mix.
That being said I appreciate all the replies and have been trying to delve deeper into the matter.

 

[Iti oj]

If you're happier now, why would you want help?

Cause if I am wrong then I could be in trouble down the road and it's part of 'my argument/point i guess

 

[Iti oj]

Belief is in the believer. If a person believes in no faith, it is as real as any faith. If the same person decides to choose a faith, they must choose between many. Maybe no faith, is the fact that a person cannot decide which faith is the right one. No faith is a seemingly safe choice, because it elimates the temptation to follow the wrong faith. I would rather have no faith than the wrong one.

Their seems to be no reason to pick one faith over another out side of how they sound or feel to a person. Nothing to suggest one is more likely then the other.

Maybe God does exist and he is embarrassed by all the religions that pop up under his name.

how many faiths doom me for not picking one compared to how many faiths doom me for picking another faith...

 

[Katzpur]

Cause if I am wrong then I could be in trouble down the road and it's part of 'my argument/point i guess

Lack of sincere desire to know the truth is the only thing that could cause you trouble down the road. Honest doubts and honest mistakes will not be held against you. Good luck.

 

[waitasec]

it is a common assumption that sincerity is what lacks if one does not believe...

yet believers still do not have any capabilities non believers lack.