No Gods Before Me

[Iti oj]

Are you asking under the assumption that it happened historically, or within the self-contained logic, such that it exists anyway, of Exodus?

I suppose either.

 

[gsa]

Ok. Historically, I doubt it happened at all.

Within the context of the bible, there is interesting commentary (Levite might be more help here). I think the more significant point is probably that the Egyptian rods or snakes or whatever they are by then (I think in Hebrew it shows they had changed bake) are consumed by Aaron's rod/snake. It is I would think a demonstration that whatever the source of the power of the Egyptian magicians, it is not as powerful as the deity of the Israelites.

But I don't think that it says one way or the other.

 

[Iti oj]

Do.you think.the question would make a good.thread

 

[ChristineES]

Sometimes we need to look at things in a different way. Anything can be a god to you: Money, power, yourself. They are not necessarily omnipotent beings.

 

[gsa]

Do.you think.the question would make a good.thread

That's a limited narrow area, but maybe. I think a better overarching question is what does the text say about the belief of neighboring nations and the powers of their gods? Because that is an open question. 2 Kings 3:27, or example, suggests that human sacrifice offered to pagan gods can be successful.

Now there is all sorts of Christian and Jewish commentary that seeks to downplay this, and I think that the bible is relatively stable on the prohibition on human sacrifice. But this is not an isolated example of cultic practices that seem to work, even when aimed at other deities. I think exploration of that is a worthwhile endeavor, more generally than say, Pharaoh's sorcerers.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There is a passage in the bible that states:

Exodus 20:3-5 (KJV)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Does this implicitly state that no other Gods but the Abrahamic God, exist? Or that other Gods exist, but one will not worship and bow down before them?

Neither: it means …

there shall be for you no other object of worship.​

 

[George-ananda]

I take it that God knew people had other gods that they worshiped, BUT He doesn't address the question if they really exist. God is just saying that the practice of worshiping these gods must stop (whether they exist or not).

 

[Sabour]

To me that doesn't really make matters more clear because the Bible was written by many different authors who all probably ha different views on the topic.

But as a Kemetic who doesn't believe a word in the Bible or that the story of Exodus even happened - As an outsider looking in, I see it that the authors of the Bible did believe in other Gods, felt theirs was the most powerful, and wrote their scripture in a way to convert and control as many converts as possible.

I don't believe in the bible too but since the bible is the book for Christianity than I would refer to the bible itself to define Christianity. So even as an outsider I don't think looking at one verse of the bible and making conclusions is fair because the author of that verse certainly did have other verses too.


The furthest point you can get in the bible about having more than one god is the trinity. This is how I see it.

 

[The Hammer]

I don't believe in the bible too but since the bible is the book for Christianity than I would refer to the bible itself to define Christianity. So even as an outsider I don't think looking at one verse of the bible and making conclusions is fair because the author of that verse certainly did have other verses too.


The furthest point you can get in the bible about having more than one god is the trinity. This is how I see it.

Yes, but what I was getting at with my OP, is that most Christian's say there is only one God, there are no other's, they are fake or constructs or stories. And when asked why that is, it is all too often that one quotes Exodus. But when one reads Exodus and the verses in question, it never says that other God's don't exist, and can't be believed in. Or that it is even sacrilegious to do so, only that it is sacrilegious to pay homage to those opposing deities.

 

[The Hammer]

Would it be accurate to say that the god honored by the early monotheistic traditions is the same god as the one honored by them now, though? The understanding of this god has changed so substantially, that the case can be made that it isn't the same god. In other words, I'm not really sure which understanding of the one-god could be said to be favored. The one that represents pure love? The one that represents transcendent, abstract being? The one that represents ruthless justice?

I highly doubt the Christian God of America (I'm from the US bear with me), is anything close to what the God of the NT was, who is even significantly different then the God of the OT. Now here is the kicker? Because of how different God appears in these two opposing books, are the actually different Gods?

 

[Sabour]

Yes, but what I was getting at with my OP, is that most Christian's say there is only one God, there are no other's, they are fake or constructs or stories. And when asked why that is, it is all too often that one quotes Exodus. But when one reads Exodus and the verses in question, it never says that other God's don't exist, and can't be believed in. Or that it is even sacrilegious to do so, only that it is sacrilegious to pay homage to those opposing deities.

If that is the case than I think Christians or the one quoting to you is doing a good job, if you really did raise that issue. I am not a Christian but I am somehow familiar with the bible so let me try to quote some verses.

Mark 12:29 "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord, and you shall worship Him with all your strength and all your might and all your soul and all your heart."

DEUTERONOMY 4:35

Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

1 KINGS 8:60

That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

MARK 12:32

And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I take it that God knew ...

Why do you think that your speculation about what God knew or thought has anything whatsoever to do with what the text says?

 

[InChrist]

Yes, but what I was getting at with my OP, is that most Christian's say there is only one God, there are no other's, they are fake or constructs or stories. And when asked why that is, it is all too often that one quotes Exodus. But when one reads Exodus and the verses in question, it never says that other God's don't exist, and can't be believed in. Or that it is even sacrilegious to do so, only that it is sacrilegious to pay homage to those opposing deities.

I'd say that most Christians don't base their belief in only one God on the verses in Exodus alone, but on the entirety of the scriptures. There are many passages which indicate there is only One Creator God as opposed to false gods and/or idols of human creation or imagination. A few of my favorite related passages are...

I am the LORD and there s no other. There is no GOD besides Me. Isaiah 45:5

For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other. Isaiah 45:18

Tell and bring forth your case;
Yes, let them take counsel together.
Who has declared this from ancient time?
Who has told it from that time?
Have not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A just God and a Savior;
There is none besides Me.
“Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other. Isaiah 45:21-22

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Neither: it means …

there shall be for you no other object of worship.​

Took the words from me.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The way she explains it, is she refuses to believe or see them as actual Gods that exist, and this seems to be common among monotheists.

What I am asking is, why? It never states that that is the case, or that that is even necessary. It just says that one cannot bow before those gods. Even when I was Catholic, I did not view other gods with disbelief, I merely did not pray to them.

Where does this, only the Abrahamic God Exists complex, come from in maintstream Christianity?

It comes from the Scriptures and Tradition. Catholicism has always been monotheistic. The Church does not accept the existence of any other gods.

 

[roger1440]

There is a passage in the bible that states:

Exodus 20:3-5 (KJV)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Now I am posing this question to all theists. Does this implicitly state that no other Gods but the Abrahamic God, exist? Or that other Gods exist, but one will not worship and bow down before them? I read it as the latter, maybe because I have polytheistic leanings. I am asking this because upon discussion with a friend, she said she does not believe in other Gods because in the Bible it says not to have any other gods before hers. That prompted my response that acknowledging that another god exists is no blasphemous or against that statement, as long as she is not worshipping hte other deity.

Anyways, thoughts?

EDIT: Mods, if this needs to be moved into scriptural debate please do so, I was unsure quite where to post this.

The verses you had quoted do not admit nor deny the existence of other gods. To understand the message the author is making, it is best read those verses in conjunction with the previous verse. "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.” (Exodus 20:2) The God of Israel has the supreme authority over Israel because he brought them out of Egypt. It’s a kind of a bargain. God did this, now the Jews must do that.

Verse two stipulates that the story of the exodus is a prerequisite to the reading of the 10 commandments. If the reader is not familiar with the exodus then being “brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery” would not make any sense.

 

[Akivah]

I highly doubt the Christian God of America (I'm from the US bear with me), is anything close to what the God of the NT was, who is even significantly different then the God of the OT. Now here is the kicker? Because of how different God appears in these two opposing books, are the actually different Gods?

I recognize that people have different names for the being(s) that they worship. However, IMO, the beings that they worship are 1) different from the being that I worship and 2) aren't god(s). For example, people that worship Jesus are 1) worshipping a different being than what I worship and 2) I don't believe the object of their worship is a god. It is only for convenience sake and labels that in discussions that I refer to "their gods", not that I believe the object of their worship is really a god.

 

[ChristineES]

I highly doubt the Christian God of America (I'm from the US bear with me), is anything close to what the God of the NT was, who is even significantly different then the God of the OT. Now here is the kicker? Because of how different God appears in these two opposing books, are the actually different Gods?

It's the same God, it has to be. What's changed is the religion, to a point. God isn't defined by religions.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

When faced by implicit statements, it is a good idea for the reader to look elsewhere in the book to see whether the implicit statement is supported or not, I would suggest looking up in the other verses in the bible and check whether it is possible that the verses you quoted imply that there are other gods.

Psalm 95:3
For the LORD is the great God, the great King above all gods.

Exodus 15:11
Who among the gods is like you, LORD? Who is like you-- majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?

Deuteronomy 32:8-9
When the Most High assigned lands to the nations, when he divided up the human race, he established the boundaries of the peoples according to the number in his heavenly court. The LORD's portion is His people, Jacob, His own inheritance.

Psalm 82:1
A psalm of Asaph. God has taken His place in the divine assembly; He judges among the gods:"

 

[The Hammer]

It's the same God, it has to be. What's changed is the religion, to a point. God isn't defined by religions.

It doesn't have to be the same God, unless the God itself changed. The actions and attitudes are vastly different between the two books.