No jab = higher health insurance premiums

[Revoltingest]

Such a reasoning would only work under the US model.
I suppose straining resources unnecessarily would be the equivalent elsewhere. Which wouldn’t you make you very popular

Every economy & health care system has resource allocation
(IMO). Discouraging unhealthy behavior is efficient (IMO).

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Ahh I get it. Glad to be a country that has Medicare as an option for those with medical insurance

Well, in Canada (and quite a few other western nations other than the US), universal healthcare is a recognition that the "risk factors" are a less important measure than the need to survive. It is true that smokers, for example, don't pay more health care taxes than non-smokers -- but they do pay a heck of a lot of "sin tax" on the cigarettes, which contributes to paying for the cost of their care. Couple that with the fact that they tend to die earlier, and you can see that in fact they may cost the healthcare system less when it comes to geriatric care.

 

[sun rise]

Do you think fire insurance may be going up a bit in Northern California?

As a location, no. If you mean the SF Bay Area, we're way ahead on vaccination and way lower on cases per 100,000. Real Northern CA could be another matter - I'm only tracking closely the county I live in.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, in Canada (and quite a few other western nations other than the US), universal healthcare is a recognition that the "risk factors" are a less important measure than the need to survive. It is true that smokers, for example, don't pay more health care taxes than non-smokers -- but they do pay a heck of a lot of "sin tax" on the cigarettes, which contributes to paying for the cost of their care. Couple that with the fact that they tend to die earlier, and you can see that in fact they may cost the healthcare system less when it comes to geriatric care.

As I said, it's all about incentives that enhance resource allocation.
If'n ya don't pay Uncle Sam, you'll pay Amalgamated Sawbones.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

As a location, no. If you mean the SF Bay Area, we're way ahead on vaccination and way lower on cases per 100,000. Real Northern CA could be another matter - I'm only tracking closely the county I live in.

I had two properties in Plumas county.
I had plans approved to build a house on one.
But, I sold one a year ago, and the other a few months ago.
I’m so happy I did.
I used to drive through Greenville a lot going back and forth from Reno.
That whole area was such an incredibly beautiful place.
It’s so sad to see the devastation.

 

[SomeRandom]

Well, in Canada (and quite a few other western nations other than the US), universal healthcare is a recognition that the "risk factors" are a less important measure than the need to survive. It is true that smokers, for example, don't pay more health care taxes than non-smokers -- but they do pay a heck of a lot of "sin tax" on the cigarettes, which contributes to paying for the cost of their care. Couple that with the fact that they tend to die earlier, and you can see that in fact they may cost the healthcare system less when it comes to geriatric care.

This is true. The US system is absolutely cutthroat. Interesting for a country that seemingly boasts that it a “Christian nation.”

(Please note that I am aware that the US is a secular nation. That’s just what a loud portion likes to proclaim to the world.)

 

[SomeRandom]

As I said, it's all about incentives that enhance resource allocation.
If'n ya don't pay Uncle Sam, you'll pay Amalgamated Sawbones.

Damn. Uncle Sam is a tough landlord

 

[Shaul]

Sounds like an opportunity for liberty minded companies to offer insurance for those that choose to not get vaccinated and also not get gouged.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"Aye, that's the rub". Our insane health care system is at the root once again. With a health care system equal to the developed nations, this would not be a big issue if one at all.

People choosing to collaborate with a pandemic would always be an issue. The solutions would be different in other systems.

As it is, we "strain at (health care) gnats and swallow (health care system) camels".

I think you forget that you were the one who made a thread to complain about Delta's surcharge, not about the US health care system.

 

[Left Coast]

We were debating this just a tiny bit ago. Now we see the reality.

Delta Air Lines is raising health insurance premiums for unvaccinated employees by $200 a month to cover higher Covid costs

• Starting Nov. 1, unvaccinated Delta employees who have health insurance from the company will face $200 monthly surcharges.
• From Sept. 12, unvaccinated employees will have to take a Covid test every week, while “community case rates” are high.
• United Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines say they will mandate vaccines for employees.

Not a fan of this idea. I believe healthcare is a right, and we should provide universal coverage to all people without this notion that people deserve to pay more or less based on how healthy they are.

Here’s a Terrible New Idea: Making the Unvaccinated Pay Higher Insurance Premiums

 

[Revoltingest]

Not a fan of this idea. I believe healthcare is a right, and we should provide universal coverage to all people without this notion that people deserve to pay more or less based on how healthy they are.

Here’s a Terrible New Idea: Making the Unvaccinated Pay Higher Insurance Premiums

Is it OK for people to behave in a manner more dangerous to
both themselves & others, & the rest of us must subsidize it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Meaning statically Blacks and Hispanics will be paying higher health care costs.

Possibly. Though the statistic of lower vaccination rates among those people may have causes that do not apply to all subsets of those populations evenly. At any rate it is a difference based upon personal choice and not based upon the race one was born into.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not a fan of this idea. I believe healthcare is a right, and we should provide universal coverage to all people without this notion that people deserve to pay more or less based on how healthy they are.

Here’s a Terrible New Idea: Making the Unvaccinated Pay Higher Insurance Premiums

It is not based upon how healthy they are. That is a strawman. It is based upon a choice on whether to get vaccinated or not. They are lucky. The airline would be within their rights to demand vaccination as requirement to work there.

 

[Left Coast]

Is it OK for people to behave in a manner more dangerous to
both themselves & others, & the rest of us must subsidize it?

Your question presupposes that people's health is simply a consequence of their own autonomous independent behavior, when we know for a fact that it is not. See research on social determinants of health.

Again, if you believe that healthcare should be a right rather than a privilege given to people who can afford it, as I do, our thinking about these things should shift from individual behavior change to system change.

 

[Left Coast]

It is not based upon how healthy they are. That is a strawman. It is based upon a choice on whether to get vaccinated or not. They are lucky. The airline would be within their rights to demand vaccination as requirement to work there.

Again, this presumes that healthcare should be given only to those who can afford/deserve it, rather than it being a human right.

 

[We Never Know]

We were debating this just a tiny bit ago. Now we see the reality.

Delta Air Lines is raising health insurance premiums for unvaccinated employees by $200 a month to cover higher Covid costs

• Starting Nov. 1, unvaccinated Delta employees who have health insurance from the company will face $200 monthly surcharges.
• From Sept. 12, unvaccinated employees will have to take a Covid test every week, while “community case rates” are high.
• United Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines say they will mandate vaccines for employees.

Im guessing the rate increase is because the unvaccinated are more at risk to get covid?

If that's the case they should also raise the rates on..
-smokers because they are more at risk to get cancer
-drinkers because they are more at risk to get liver desease
-speeders because they are more at risk to be in an accident
-etc

In my opinion of its about highr risks, target everyone, not just certain ones.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again, this presumes that healthcare should be given only to those who can afford/deserve it, rather than it being a human right.

No, it does not. It deals with the fact that in the US it is not a right. Ideally it would be. But since individuals have to pay for health care and since not getting a vaccination is very very rarely a health care issue the company is justified in their action. I think that since they are dealing with the public in a close confines for long periods of time I think that it should be mandatory for that job.

 

[Left Coast]

No, it does not. It deals with the fact that in the US it is not a right. Ideally it would be. But since individuals have to pay for health care and since not getting a vaccination is very very rarely a health care issue the company is justified in their action. I think that since they are dealing with the public in a close confines for long periods of time I think that it should be mandatory for that job.

Vaccination is not a healthcare issue? Not sure what you mean by that.

The point is that I'm against these kinds of proposals because they perpetuate the idea that healthcare should be reserved for those who can afford it or deserve it, which should not be how we organize care. And is guaranteed to make insurance more unaffordable for some percentage of the population, adding to the cost for society of covering healthcare costs for those people when they inevitably need care (which we all do at some point). We know that a higher percentage of minorities are unvaccinated, who are already disproportionately uninsured as well.

So the whole approach is callous, contrary to the principles the left claims to care about, and economically unsound. People deserve to get care simply because they are human beings, not because they merit care by making healthy enough decisions.

Whether we should require vaccinations for employment in certain jobs is a whole other issue.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Vaccination is not a healthcare issue? Not sure what you mean by that.

The point is that I'm against these kinds of proposals because they perpetuate the idea that healthcare should be reserved for those who can afford it or deserve it, which should not be how we organize care. And is guaranteed to make insurance more unaffordable for some percentage of the population, adding to the cost for society of covering healthcare costs for those people when they inevitably need care (which we all do at some point). We know that a higher percentage of minorities are unvaccinated, who are already disproportionately uninsured as well.

So the whole approach is callous, contrary to the principles the left claims to care about, and economically unsound. People deserve to get care simply because they are human beings, not because they merit care by making healthy enough decisions.

Whether we should require vaccinations for employment in certain jobs is a whole other issue.

No, you appear to be not understanding on purpose. There is no cost to getting a vaccine. There almost never is a valid excuse not to. So getting it is not a "health care issue". It is a choice. And as in all choices in life there should and can be consequences.

Please avoid false assumptions and strawman arguments. If one cannot deal with an argument as given it is likely that you are wrong.

 

[Left Coast]

No, you appear to be not understanding on purpose. There is no cost to getting a vaccine. There almost never is a valid excuse not to. So getting it is not a "health care issue". It is a choice. And as in all choices in life there should and can be consequences.

Please avoid false assumptions and strawman arguments. If one cannot deal with an argument as given it is likely that you are wrong.

I'm understanding pretty clearly, from what I can see. You think people who don't make the correct health decision (to get vaccinated) should pay more for care coverage. I disagree. I explained why that is from multiple vantage points, economically and ethically.

If you agree with the idea that vaccines should be free, it shouldn't be that much of a stretch to understand why a person would advocate that care generally should be free. Healthcare should be a right, as you yourself agreed would be the case "ideally." So let's make it real instead of just an abstraction. Let's stop perpetuating a system of merit-based care.

Assuming that because I disagree with you that therefore I don't understand you is an issue on your part, not mine.