Tumah
Veteran Member
As many as necessary.
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No Lions and Tigers were on Noah’s Ark
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Tumah
Veteran Member
Everything was created in its "adult" form. Like Adam was created with a navel even though he had no mother. The light was created in the process of travelling. This relates to the stage of emanation that the creation became corporeal.
dust1n
Zindīq
True. I have it from a good source that God pulled the universe from a hat.
Ah, so it was not safe to assume for Descartes to assume demons weren't actively making all of human existence illusory; God was already on the job.
dust1n
Zindīq
So then one couldn't actually say that the light is from a star?
No, I am serious. What do your sources say about the exact number of animals/"kinds" surviving the flood and how they evolved into an estimated 8.7 million species? If your sources don't mention personal direct intervention by your god selecting the DNA for each species what's left is evolution over a few thousand years.
Tumah
Veteran Member
You could, just that "star" and "light" had a different meaning at the point the light actually left the star.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I have no knowledge of the number of species and even if I did have that knowledge it would be irrelevant, since there is no reason that G-d needs to use a classification system invented by humans, rather than His own.
I'm not sure how that follows. The animals were brought by angels to the ark. How many animals and what type? As many as would be necessary to give us the amount of species we have today, that's how many.
dust1n
Zindīq
But you are saying the light never left the star. If the light was created 4 million light years away from the star it appears to be coming from, it wasn't created by the star.
Then how do you know that everything wasn't created yesterday or last week?
Tumah
Veteran Member
No, I'm saying the light did leave the star but they were not as we perceive them, they were incorporeal. The best analogy I can think of is if the light and the star were in a totally different dimension that is unfathomable to us, but for whatever reason, they both simultaneously moved into our dimension where we could perceive them. So even though the star entered our plane of existence at the same time as the light which is 300 light years further out from it, the light did technically come from the star. Do you see what I'm trying to say?
And how did we go from that amount to the amount of species we have today? Did your god personally select out the various species' DNA or was it done by evolution over a few thousand years?
Tumah
Veteran Member
I imagine whatever did not exist at that point evolved...
Is there a point to all this?
Tumah
Veteran Member
Because it was created right now.
Machavelle
Member
God can do any thing, why send a flood, why not just have every person except Noah's family simultaneously evaporate.
No need for an Ark, no need for two of every Animal to Start breeding again.
Meanwhile after the waters recead, let's say a tiger once off the ark eats any animal as all the carnivores would have been, what did the remaining one breed with, or do animals have virgin births to.
No need for an Ark, no need for two of every Animal to Start breeding again.
Meanwhile after the waters recead, let's say a tiger once off the ark eats any animal as all the carnivores would have been, what did the remaining one breed with, or do animals have virgin births to.
dust1n
Zindīq
So creation is roughly 6000 years old, but everything existed before then for millions of years in a different dimension with the same rules and physics as dimension we are currently residing in? Like, was there an Earth on this dimension, where dinosaurs roamed for millions of years and all died, and then later God moved the Earth to a different dimension?
I'm trying to understand what you are saying, but I'm confused as to why God would create the universe in more or less in full detail, until he decided to move over to another dimension, and I'm confused as to why one would call that creation at all, since it implies things were already existing before being moved here. That's less of a creation, and more God arranging furniture in this living room, isn't it?
Tumah
Veteran Member
No the dimension thing was just to explain how the light could be said to come from a star that is further away then the time limit allows. In reality, I'm talking about the process of emanationism that took place in an instant. So that when the emanation ended with the spontaneous corporeality of the universe, the process of emanationism translated from its spiritual dimension into the physical meant a star here and its light already over there.
I am just trying to establish what you believe in. First your god creates some animals and "saw that it was good". Then they evolve for 1,656 years. Then he drowns a lot of them and save a few. Then those who survived evolved again into 8.7 million species. Would that be correct?
How do you know?
You're assuming deceptive forces at work that can create evidence for whatever they want and that we can't detect as false. How can you trust your judgement of anything?
Yes! Shall we found a new religion starting with now as the creation date?
Tumah
Veteran Member
No. And its kind of weird that you came to that conclusion...
Again, G-d created whatever number of species it would take to reach 8.7 million species in 5,776 years. Maybe it was 8.5 million that He created. Maybe 8 million. I have no idea.Let's say 8.5 million plus or mins 5 million. So these 8.5 million species get on the ark. Then they get off the ark. 5,776 years later voila 8.7 million.