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No more immigrants please!

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Wouldn't want to be hypocritical :p. Also I originate from bristol, so not a fan of Reading fc :sorry1:

You should probably go and apologise to some Scots as well, afterall, before mr Hadrian and his big wall, your ancestors didn't kill a lot of them ;)

I was in Bristol about 2 weeks ago. Only stayed over night but they've done a lot to make the city look pretty.
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
You should probably go and apologise to some Scots as well, afterall, before mr Hadrian and his big wall, your ancestors didn't kill a lot of them ;)

I was in Bristol about 2 weeks ago. Only stayed over night but they've done a lot to make the city look pretty.

Oh okay. I'll go do that now :p

It is a nice city. If you can see past the crime and gangs ofc :p
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard

Not a bad idea to be honest. Seems to serve the short term need without hindering long term progress.

Australia draws a lot of permanant labour the same way but the associated issue is the lack of jobs when our economy downturns. Our government decided to tax mining companies for super-profits a while back (mining is by far our largest export) and as a result mining companies (almost immediately) scaled back their ventures leaving thousands without employment. Not the ideal outcome.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Not a bad idea to be honest. Seems to serve the short term need without hindering long term progress.

Australia draws a lot of permanant labour the same way but the associated issue is the lack of jobs when our economy downturns. Our government decided to tax mining companies for super-profits a while back (mining is by far our largest export) and as a result mining companies (almost immediately) scaled back their ventures leaving thousands without employment. Not the ideal outcome.

I was being sarcastic with the compassion bit. I think its lack of a watchdog leads to ridiculous abuse. In fact, I've seen it first hand, and it makes me ashamed to be Canadian. That and the abuse of our aboriginals.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
I was being sarcastic with the compassion bit. I think its lack of a watchdog leads to ridiculous abuse. In fact, I've seen it first hand, and it makes me ashamed to be Canadian. That and the abuse of our aboriginals.

Well i'm not going to pretend to be an expert but in theory it sounds like an ok idea.

Of course not being Canadian I don't really know the in's and out's nor the problems with the idea.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Well i'm not going to pretend to be an expert but in theory it sounds like an ok idea.

Of course not being Canadian I don't really know the in's and out's nor the problems with the idea.

I think it isn't a bad idea. Even within a country, like ours the jobs shift geographically over time, with new resources being discovered and all that, so in some ways it makes sense. But the way it is now, there is way too much abuse, and many critics say its just veiled racism.
 

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's too bad - after all no-one is forcing you to migrate to Canada in the first place.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
So because our forefathers conquered the land we live in, we can't complain about illegal immigration? Seriously?
Which is not what I said! First, I want some recognition of the fact that North America and Australia are not white native territories. I think most people are vaguely familiar with aboriginal inhabitants that have been displaced, exterminated or marginalized on reservations; but they create the theme of Manifest Destiny, wherein conquerors of a land who view themselves as moral people, find some religious justification combined with denigration of the native inhabitants, to justify their conquest. This is true in North America, South America, Australia, as well as Israel and South Africa. They all come up with founding myths that put God on their side; telling them that it's their land and God wants them to clear out any interlopers who happen to be in the way.

Viewed from the point of view of the conquered, the European Age of Exploration could be viewed as a swarm of locusts, who overpopulated their own nations at the time, and could no longer grow enough food to provide an adequate living at the time. But, they did manage to come up with a few inventions that made it possible to explore and conquer some less heavily populated lands....muskets, cannons, and sailing ships which had the most sophisticated riggings and navigation systems of the time. And, after colonizing much of the world, the Europeans, and then the Americans, created a system of economic colonization beginning with England in the 1880's, where private interests backed up with naval force would guarantee the flow of grain and other natural resources to Europe and America.

Even back at the start of the conquest, many of the aboriginal leaders who were amazed by tall ships and guns, knew there was something out of balance about the way of life that these white visitors were trying to impose on them, and on the land. And now that we live in a time when the chickens are coming home to roost, we can see that our myth of cultural superiority and progress, has led to the rampant exploitation of the environment and natural resources. Now that we are running out of pristine land and renewable and non-renewable resources, hindsight can fill us with regret that we did not heed these voices for moderation and respect for the land....or it might just fill some with denial, as they keep ramping up the exploitation of dirtier forms of energy to drive the world to the brink of extinction......but that's getting on another topic!

And now we may be staring WWIII in the face because China and India are reaching a level where they want to get in on the economic colonization game.....but, that's also another story to deal with later...maybe.

Okay! So, where do we go now? My first problem with bashing illegal immigrants, is that they are mostly here because they are being driven off the land because they are in the way of one or another corporation that wants to do some mining or buy up vast tracks of land for commercial agriculture. I recall a study done a few years ago which found that 60% of the illegal immigrants coming across the U.S. border from Mexico, were originally from Central America or South American countries like Equador and Columbia. And then there is the business angle to exploiting illegal workers. Very little of what I witnessed online from all of the "Minutemen" and similar groups claiming to be protecting the borders, even mentioned the fact that their own businesses were seeking out illegals to work for them.....then again, maybe that's because so many of these immigration activists themselves are exploiting illegals as slave labour...to work for them as domestic help, or landscapers etc..


And, when anti-illegals let their hair down on the right wing forums, the all-pervasive message is that they hate everyone who is not white and not Christian. The word "illegal" is used as a mask to cover their real feelings about others! They don't want illegals, and they don't want any legal immigration either....unless they are the right colour and the right religion!

For my own perspective, I was more inclined to be anti-immigrant when I was living in a mostly white suburb, and my views started changing a little over 10 years ago, when I moved to a smaller city that is a melting pot of different races, religions and ethnicities. For example, whatever you think about Jamaicans...or Muslims, to name two examples, will likely change a bit if you are living among them, and get to know some of them on a personal level. Objectification of enemies (like immigrants) is much more easily accomplished when you live a separate life, in your own white community, and only see immigrants as strangers passing you on the street when you have to go to some downtown area.


And finally; looking into the future....when I look at the state this world is heading in to, I can see a time coming when there will be human waves fleeing from wars, droughts and other causes of famine around the world. The CIA, as a matter of fact, has been predicting similar trends on a more limited scale for at least the last 10 years. And, that might be the end of any open-door acceptance of immigration. It could end up as a matter of survival in the coming decades. But, this is a different angle than the traditional reasons to be against immigration.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
And, when anti-illegals let their hair down on the right wing forums, the all-pervasive message is that they hate everyone who is not white and not Christian. The word "illegal" is used as a mask to cover their real feelings about others! They don't want illegals, and they don't want any legal immigration either....unless they are the right colour and the right religion!

Heres a little explanation for you. For the record i'm not Christian and i'm not 100% white. My anger towards illegal immigration firstly is that for one we've spent millions setting up a system to aid legal immigrants entering the country. It costs millions every month to mobilise and maintain our navy that patrols our northern border against the illegal boat people. Usually I would say screw it, the navy will let them in anyway let them make landfall but thats not the issue. The issue is that these people in overcrowded, poorly maintained vessels are actually a hazard to everything. Those millions spent saving them from themselves and safely getting them to land could be pumped into our suffering public health system as well as our hopeless public transport systems across the country.

For the record, not that I actually really care what you think of my opinion, I recognise that these people are desperate for a better life. A lot of them are from countries ruined by war. I feel sympathy towards them but this leads me to my next point. The expensive facilities we provide for these people which are often nicer than the homes of current Australian citizens who struggle to keep their heads above water are subject to attack on a regular basis.

So firstly these people come here illegally, we feed them and keep them safe while they're being processed. However, some get frustrated with the time it takes to process their application for citizenship and go rioting. They burn down the facilities the government provides for them and assault the guards of the facility. A link to what i'm talking about is provided below.
Christmas Island Riot | Asylum Seekers Set Detention Centre Alight

Its not as if immigration is so abhorent that I want the government to put a shell through every ship that comes our way. I just love the way of life we have here in Australia and it deeply disturbs me when people who come here to experience the same way of life bite the hand that feeds so to speak. I'm skeptical of the policies the government has in place when the people we take in cause problems, expensive problems.

With the constant urbanisation of Australia, these processed refugees are sent to remote towns and supported by the government for a period. However, issues have arisen with locals with increases in crime.

In summary I have no problem with these people but gosh they make me angry when they spit in the face of the country thats given them a life.

*cues the word racist at least once if this post is quoted*
 

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
Where I sit right now, I am less than five meters from a poster from the 1950's offering free emigration to australia of married men from 15-30 (remember the average lifespans back then were shorter) of certain occupations who must be of sound body and mind, and their wifes and children (and the single sisters of such men, provided the sisters too were of sound mind and body). These people would be relocated for free in exchange for the skills they had, which were in demand by society. The emphasis throughout is on the person's ability to contribute to society - remember that this was after WWII and that as such demand for some skills in particular was very very high. It upholds a utilitarian view of immigration true, however I personally do not see this as a problem; I think immigrants SHOULD contribute to society and most legal immigrants do so; I believe the intake of non-contributing migrants and refugees should be discretional and based upon our ability to support them without adverse effect on society.

Perhaps that makes me racist as this harkens back to the white australia policy - however I feel a person's ethnicity or cultural background is not a factor in such decisions (except to ensure that they abide our system of laws) - and simply said, how dull life would be without the lovely ladies of the many peoples throughout the world, as for the men... who cares? they are men. :p


As a side note: the poster I am sitting so close to was part of an infamous voyage, the Java was the vessel and 56 people died aboard the poorly provisioned overcrowded vessel; the forerunner of the boat people perhaps - the government sponsored version though.
 
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