No more immigrants please!

[work in progress]

But it already has. Because of white white people did to aboriginals about 70 years ago the government apologised even though 90% of the population was not around to do anything about it.

They still act like the white devil owes them everything though.

If any group of people have a firm foundation to complain about immigrants, it would be aboriginals! The white immigrants to Australia, North and South America are the worst of the lot, because they came in and decided they owned the place, and killed off or marginalized the true natives to mostly worthless little plots of land that they had no use for...until they discover oil or valuable metals underground....then they are either pushed off that land, or their reserves are polluted from toxic runoff from the mining and oil developments in their backyard (Alberta Tar Sands for example).

And then these white immigrants decide that they are the true natives and turn dark skinned immigrants into second class citizens and go on about them taking over "our land." Sometimes, when you're searching for enemies, you have to pick up a mirror and take a good look in it!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They still act like the white devil owes them everything though.

It still goes on today, albeit it would be more accurate to say Capitalist, Western, or even to an extent American devils, which many of them are white. Even today, look no further than US foreign policy and how it butts in on every bodies business and even going as far to overthrow democratically elected rulers and replacing them with dictators that advance American interests. Iraq is probably the most recent example of how America overthrew an foreign government and establish their own, while not giving a damn about the slaughtering of civilians or the civil war and chaos that followed.

 

[darkendless]

If any group of people have a firm foundation to complain about immigrants, it would be aboriginals! The white immigrants to Australia, North and South America are the worst of the lot, because they came in and decided they owned the place, and killed off or marginalized the true natives to mostly worthless little plots of land that they had no use for...until they discover oil or valuable metals underground....then they are either pushed off that land, or their reserves are polluted from toxic runoff from the mining and oil developments in their backyard (Alberta Tar Sands for example).

Yeh 300 years ago which is exactly what I was getting at on the previous page. 300 years ago our ancestors took their land (not that they truelly had land, aboriginals are nomadic) and now we forever pay for it. When does it stop though?

Funnily enough by your reasoning we should allow them to come here, but they have to go maraud the desert with the aboriginal tribes. You can't argue, you're the one making distinctions here.

They have no right to complain, the government assistance they recieve is princely.

And then these white immigrants decide that they are the true natives and turn dark skinned immigrants into second class citizens and go on about them taking over "our land." Sometimes, when you're searching for enemies, you have to pick up a mirror and take a good look in it!

You fit exactly into the description I made on the previous page. I really can't stand people who will bring up 300 years (often a lot longer) of history because the white man isn't the "true native." What do you people have to say about New Zealand? There is no native to New Zealand, the maoris ate all the natives.

 

[darkendless]

It still goes on today, albeit it would be more accurate to say Capitalist, Western, or even to an extent American devils, which many of them are white. Even today, look no further than US foreign policy and how it butts in on every bodies business and even going as far to overthrow democratically elected rulers and replacing them with dictators that advance American interests.

Of course, and to make matters worse the Australian government made an official apology for an attrocity that happened like 80 years ago which has made the aboriginal sense of entitlement almost intolerable.

As for your assessment on America, can't argue there. I really don't understand their need to control everything. Its like they're so paranoid that they just have to be in control.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course, and to make matters worse the Australian government made an official apology for an attrocity that happened like 80 years ago which has made the aboriginal sense of entitlement almost intolerable.

I agree that what happened long ago, today is probably not the time to apologize. It's like the families of the victims of the Salem Witch Trials receiving monetary compensation, or how some black families have sued the descendants of former slave owners. It makes no sense, and certainly does not erase the past.
But there are things going on today that someone that had nothing to do with it will be apologizing for, much like how Pope John Paul II apologized for the centuries of evil that church has bestowed upon the earth.

 

[work in progress]

Yeh 300 years ago which is exactly what I was getting at on the previous page. 300 years ago our ancestors took their land (not that they truelly had land, aboriginals are nomadic) and now we forever pay for it. When does it stop though?

It doesn't stop. Once a group of people have been pushed into marginal lands and left with a marginal existence, and had their culture and languages stripped from them -- in much of Canada, it was taking children from reserves by force and putting them in boarding schools to take the "Indian" out of them -- the damage remains. Culture and traditional ways of life are decimated, while a new, foreign way of living was imposed on the land from outside.

And if those colonists had the foresight to realize that their culture -- which they assumed was superior -- was based on an avaricious consumption and exploitation of the natural environment, and something that us superior descendents will not be able to continue into the future, then it's time to ask: who's culture really was superior, and who's was inferior?

Funnily enough by your reasoning we should allow them to come here, but they have to go maraud the desert with the aboriginal tribes. You can't argue, you're the one making distinctions here.

They have no right to complain, the government assistance they recieve is princely.

I am mostly speaking of the North American experience, but I do know that if you white Australians had payed attention to some of the things the Aborigines had to say about the land, you wouldn't have had so many ecological disasters.

You fit exactly into the description I made on the previous page. I really can't stand people who will bring up 300 years (often a lot longer) of history because the white man isn't the "true native."

Who is "you people?" I haven't given you my racial breakdown, so you are making presumptions from my positions on the issue.

What do you people have to say about New Zealand? There is no native to New Zealand, the maoris ate all the natives.

What is the point of this last statement? Aside from trying to be blatantly racist. The only thing I know about New Zealand is that's where Peter Jackson made the Lord of the Rings movies.

 

[darkendless]

It doesn't stop. Once a group of people have been pushed into marginal lands and left with a marginal existence, and had their culture and languages stripped from them -- in much of Canada, it was taking children from reserves by force and putting them in boarding schools to take the "Indian" out of them -- the damage remains. Culture and traditional ways of life are decimated, while a new, foreign way of living was imposed on the land from outside.

Same thing happened here with the aboriginals, but why should that have a bearing on society going forward?

Dwelling on the past over-complexifies the political and social climate. People saying "hold on, 300 years ago your ancestors did "X" so therefore you are in no position to say anything" is just retarded. Should the British stop creating immigration policy because in 1060 or whenever it was they took the land off the Normans? By your reasoning they should.

And if those colonists had the foresight to realize that their culture -- which they assumed was superior -- was based on an avaricious consumption and exploitation of the natural environment, and something that us superior descendents will not be able to continue into the future, then it's time to ask: who's culture really was superior, and who's was inferior?

......... and that has what exactly to do with anything? This isn't a discussion about culture nor superiority at all.

I am mostly speaking of the North American experience, but I do know that if you white Australians had payed attention to some of the things the Aborigines had to say about the land, you wouldn't have had so many ecological disasters.

The aboriginies lived usually far from the coast in isolated tribes. It wasn't until about 50 years after the colony of Sydney was created that large scale encounters with the natives even occured. As for ecological disasters, as a North American i'd think you'd know a bit more about those. Ours are usually related to mining which is the life-blood of our economy and the hand that attempts to reconciliate aboriginal and anglo equality.

Who is "you people?" I haven't given you my racial breakdown, so you are making presumptions from my positions on the issue.

This isn't about race "You people" means a distinct group of people who love to bring up long gone historical events to make a point about a current situation no matter how irrelevent it is.

What is the point of this last statement? Aside from trying to be blatantly racist. The only thing I know about New Zealand is that's where Peter Jackson made the Lord of the Rings movies.

Oh there it is, the first use of the word racist I knew it wouldn't take long. Its such an over used word and a word that is often used incorrectly. Well actually what I am telling you is true, look it up. The Moriori's were slaughtered by the Maori's in the middle ages. The point of this is that your arguement of bringing up the natives cannot be used here.

 

[Nooj]

Of course, and to make matters worse the Australian government made an official apology for an attrocity that happened like 80 years ago which has made the aboriginal sense of entitlement almost intolerable.

The last cases of the Stolen Generation policy occurred in the 1970s. That's about 40 years ago, well within living memory. There are many stolen people who are still alive.

 

[nnmartin]

I think it's really pointless giving to much attention to what the white-man did several hundred years ago. The World was a different place then.

The new era began after WW2 - the rest is just for the history books.

 

[not nom]

I think it's really pointless giving to much attention to what the white-man did several hundred years ago. The World was a different place then.

The new era began after WW2 - the rest is just for the history books.

heh. try again when the life expectancies of "white" and "black" people are at least somewhat similar.

 

[Nooj]

What do you people have to say about New Zealand? There is no native to New Zealand, the maoris ate all the natives.

This is a myth. I grew up in New Zealand, so I think I know more about it than you. There were no natives in New Zealand before the Maori. There was a separate group who lived in the Chatham Islands called the Moriori. What happened was that two Maori iwi (tribes), riding on European ships, went to the Chatham Islands and did some very bad things, like enslavement and warfare. By the way, the Maori at that time were not one people. Tribal affiliation was more important than the idea of a Maori whole, which probably didn't even exist until invaders came and grouped them all together. So just because some iwi did some bad things doesn't mean you can blame all Maori as you just did.

It doesn't matter if you come from England or New Zealand, people have the ability to do bad stuff to each other. The fact that people do bad stuff everywhere doesn't justify conquest and colonialism, by any side.

 

[9Westy9]

Your ancestors did though

doesn't matter. This is where I've always lived and is all that matters in this.

 

[not nom]

Your ancestors did though

well guess what, that applies to *everybody*,every single human being. let's say there is a single one "cradle of humanity": it's even possible that the people who lived there moved away, and then came back later, making absolutely everyone an immigrant no matter how far back in time you go. so "you're an immigrant because your ancestors immigrated" is just an *** backwards way of saying "people move around", (and then they pretend they didn't, or set arbitrary cutoff points for what of that matters)

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

When you look back at the various tribes and peoples that have fought over the UK. You can see them as invaders... however we are now so inter married we have no Idea whee Our individual blood lines came from.
Were we the invaded or the invader. Genetics can give a clue, but you end up with very strange results.

 

[nnmartin]

Does anyone remember the OP?

It was about immigrants from Eastern Europe moving to the UK.

Last time I checked people from this area were also white.

Yes, Latvia , Poland, Lithuania etc.. are populated by white people.

so colour is not particularly relevant here.

 

[work in progress]

Does anyone remember the OP?

It was about immigrants from Eastern Europe moving to the UK.

Last time I checked people from this area were also white.

Yes, Latvia , Poland, Lithuania etc.. are populated by white people.

so colour is not particularly relevant here.

If you're so concerned with having your thread derailed, where were your objections when an Australian white supremacist switched the topic to Aborigines and Maoris of New Zealand? You added to the argument that all the wrongs done to aboriginal peoples are something of the distant past and irrelevant today: "I think it's really pointless giving to much attention to what the white-man did several hundred years ago. The World was a different place then." Seems like you helped derail your own thread!

 

[nnmartin]

That is funny because I don't recall anyone by that description as being on this thread.

there are no white-supremacists around - plenty of wishy washy liberals though!

 

[work in progress]

That is funny because I don't recall anyone by that description as being on this thread.

there are no white-supremacists around - plenty of wishy washy liberals though!

Go play with your crystals!

 

[HiddenDjinn]

What are you suggesting?
Should we kill a lot of people?

An upcoming major war(probably over resources) will take care of that for us.

 

[not nom]

An upcoming major war(probably over resources) will take care of that for us.

that's not taking care of anything.

we lack resources because of the way we distribute them. war to free up some room doesn't change the fundamental problem, and just decreases our options.

we need clean water. I dare say, if we really wanted to, we could find a way to generate it within a few decades, if we spent 1% of the money spent on weapons (which are essentially fireworks for the benefit of those who produce them) on that. but other than water and energy there aren't a whole lot of finite resources we actually need, you know... the problem isn't that there's too many people, the problem is that a few of them take up most of it. the problem is the BS we use our resources for, not that we have too few. and "solving" that by procrastination, which a whole lot of people dying essentially is, will just leave the survivors even more stupid and blind... god forbid they'll think that's actually viable, you know. it'd rather be like solving the problem of soiling your pants by buying new pants twice a day, that's not really a solution.