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No need for someone to try to derail others belief or religion

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Truth is understood differently from person to person, it means yes it does exist an ultimate truth about everything, But we as human beings do not see it clearly, And we are on different levels of wisdom when it comes to what spiritual truth is (i do not speak of mundane physical truth as in science)

My "truth" is not the highest there is to find. But i have my understanding of the truth. I do not claim to know the ultimate truth, but I claim that just because we do see the truth differently does not mean I have the right to speak badly, negative or even evil about certain groups of spirituality/religions, or behave like an idiot toward people of spiritual paths.

This OP is not an attack, it is an OP that should be protecting believers/spiritual people from the attack from non-believers.

My brother and I were watching a car drive past, my argument was that it came from my right hand side and that the wheels were turning anti=clock wise, while my brother argued that it came from his left hand side and the wheels were turning clock wise.

But when we looked at it from each others point of view, we realised that we were both correct.

We were simply standing on opposite sides of the road.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Converting others is a core purpose of Christianity so Christians will try and debunk other beliefs and try to convert them.

Also, I think religious beliefs should be scrutinised to see if they are harmful or not. For me, there have been certain beliefs that I have scrutinised and see no harm in them, so I leave them alone, while others are harmful and I try to help others think critical (which is in my limited ability to think critically).
They would in your reasoning only be harmful to those who following the teaching, if you do not follow other teachings then The Christian teaching it will only be the Christian teaching you would need to know. And for a Muslim, the only concern they would have is to follow the teaching given to them.

And yes I know it is not like this today. That is not the religion in it self`s fault. that is a human being's ego`s fault.

There is no problem spreading teaching by only asking " Are you interested in knowing about "Pick the religion/Cultivation you want to give them" So they can choose for themself. No need to push it on them or speak badly about others.

I think some people misunderstand the purpose of my OP. This OP is not about saying I am right and you are wrong. It is about saying we as human beings should stop trying to find fault in others, and focus finding fault within our self.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think we all could be better at cheering and inspire those who are on a spiritual path, instead of trying to debunk them or telling them how wrong they are.
I'm with the RF structure on this point. No one needs to go on the debate boards if they don't want to debate. Options are provided.

And in my experience, all the interesting stuff is on the debate boards.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
I think some people misunderstand the purpose of my OP. This OP is not about saying I am right and you are wrong. It is about saying we as human beings should stop trying to find fault in others, and focus finding fault within our self.

Human psychology informs us that people think more rationnaly and clearly about others than themselves due to cognitive bias. If you want to better yourself, the most efficient and practical way is to seek criticism from others. If you aren't too self absorbed you can do the same with others. Shying away from criticism is more about preserving one's ego than trying to better oneself. Plus, nothing prevents a person improving herself by criticising others. They aren't mutually exclusive things.
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
They would in your reasoning only be harmful to those who following the teaching, if you do not follow other teachings then The Christian teaching it will only be the Christian teaching you would need to know. And for a Muslim, the only concern they would have is to follow the teaching given to them.
It would include things that are harmful to those belonging to the religion and also if the religion is harmful to outsiders of that religion.

And yes I know it is not like this today. That is not the religion in it self`s fault. that is a human being's ego`s fault.
If the religion commands people to do horrible things then it would be the religion's fault. We would have to determine whether the harm is a product of the religion itself or if the humans belonging the religion are just acting contrary to the texts or core beliefs.

There is no problem spreading teaching by only asking " Are you interested in knowing about "Pick the religion/Cultivation you want to give them" So they can choose for themself. No need to push it on them or speak badly about others.
I agree with you here. Some religions are forceful in this regard though.

I think some people misunderstand the purpose of my OP. This OP is not about saying I am right and you are wrong. It is about saying we as human beings should stop trying to find fault in others, and focus finding fault within our self.
I agree with you here. "Take the rafter out of our own eye" before judging others.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
I agree with you here. "Take the rafter out of our own eye" before judging others.

That's basically "whataboutism" at it's worst (known in the more academic circles as the tu quoque fallacy). It's because a person criticising you has flaws, perhapse the same flaw, that it makes the critique false or unimportant.
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
That's basically "whataboutism" at it's worst (known in the more academic circles as the tu quoque fallacy). It's because a person criticising you has flaws, perhapse the same flaw, that it makes the critique false or unimportant.

I am not talking about it in that way. Which is why I agree about criticising other beliefs that are harmful. It is more about looking inward as well to see whether you also have faults in your own religion. Because I have noticed that some people criticise other religions about something but fail to realise that their own religion has the same problem.
 

night912

Well-Known Member
I think we all could be better at cheering and inspire those who are on a spiritual path, instead of trying to debunk them or telling them how wrong they are. When someone finds a path/teaching that truly reach deep into their soul, and they do their best to become better, some of the worst experience for them then is when others trying to tell them, you are wrong, or your belief is false, your religion is evil and so on. Maybe you think that of other's beliefs or religion, but why do your "negativity toward their belief" have to be told so to derail their path? How about if you do not believe, ask good questions to those who do believe, like. What does your religion do to your daily life, how do you understand this "topic" or just tell them it is good they found a path that can lead them to become even better as human beings.

My belief or understanding of the spiritual teaching I cultivate is for me to understand, so to make it possible for me to gain inner wisdom, for those who do not follow the same spiritual teaching it should not matter what I do in the cultivation, except for if you are interested in learning the same teaching too. then it is good to ask a question for learning, but no need to ask questions for tearing down something you have not yet understood why is told the way it is told.

Asking questions is good, as long the intention is good.
Asking questions for tearing someone down, is just an act of evil.
I think that what's in bold, is the wrong way of seeing it. One shouldn't assume someone's intention when one does not know their intentions. There's time when bad intentions can lead to the right path. And other times, good intentions can lead to the wrong path. Then there are times when one only realize later, that the right path was achieved through good intentions.


“Should you find a wise critic to point out your faults, follow him as you would a guide to hidden treasure.” - Buddha
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I think we all could be better at cheering and inspire those who are on a spiritual path, instead of trying to debunk them or telling them how wrong they are. When someone finds a path/teaching that truly reach deep into their soul, and they do their best to become better, some of the worst experience for them then is when others trying to tell them, you are wrong, or your belief is false, your religion is evil and so on. Maybe you think that of other's beliefs or religion, but why do your "negativity toward their belief" have to be told so to derail their path? How about if you do not believe, ask good questions to those who do believe, like. What does your religion do to your daily life, how do you understand this "topic" or just tell them it is good they found a path that can lead them to become even better as human beings.

My belief or understanding of the spiritual teaching I cultivate is for me to understand, so to make it possible for me to gain inner wisdom, for those who do not follow the same spiritual teaching it should not matter what I do in the cultivation, except for if you are interested in learning the same teaching too. then it is good to ask a question for learning, but no need to ask questions for tearing down something you have not yet understood why is told the way it is told.

Asking questions is good, as long the intention is good.
Asking questions for tearing someone down, is just an act of evil.
Is this thread because of the reaction you got when you argued that rape victims deserved to be raped?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Is this thread because of the reaction you got when you argued that rape victims deserved to be raped?
No not at all. And what you state about what I have said is wrong. What that answer was first of all not pointed to you, it was a reaction or a thought to an answer to someone else.

I say again IT WAS A THOUGHT, that means that does not reflect my personal idea of why people get raped, or that I support rape. it means I was thinking out aloud.

Would you like me to repeat it? I am not for rape, i am not saying that rape is a good thing. What i do say is that in some cases rape can be a karmic reaction toward that person from something in the past. I can not say what that thing is for every single person in this universe, because it will a different reason for someone to have to repay karma.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I think we all could be better at cheering and inspire those who are on a spiritual path, instead of trying to debunk them or telling them how wrong they are. When someone finds a path/teaching that truly reach deep into their soul, and they do their best to become better, some of the worst experience for them then is when others trying to tell them, you are wrong, or your belief is false, your religion is evil and so on. Maybe you think that of other's beliefs or religion, but why do your "negativity toward their belief" have to be told so to derail their path? How about if you do not believe, ask good questions to those who do believe, like. What does your religion do to your daily life, how do you understand this "topic" or just tell them it is good they found a path that can lead them to become even better as human beings.

My belief or understanding of the spiritual teaching I cultivate is for me to understand, so to make it possible for me to gain inner wisdom, for those who do not follow the same spiritual teaching it should not matter what I do in the cultivation, except for if you are interested in learning the same teaching too. then it is good to ask a question for learning, but no need to ask questions for tearing down something you have not yet understood why is told the way it is told.

Asking questions is good, as long the intention is good.
Asking questions for tearing someone down, is just an act of evil.

Why is there "no need" to help people find true religion and reject false religion? Surely there's a GREATER need for people to find biblical salvation then to have chemotherapy when they have cancer.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
@Milton Platt

The only one who can teach Falun Gong is my teacher Li Hongzhi, so no I am not here to teach others about it, but I can share my understanding of the teaching.

It would be good if others were beginning to follow the same path, But it is their choice, I have no interest in forcing anyone to follow the same path I do, but if people ask nicely, of course, i will share what i know about it, and info needed to begin cultivation.

I don't care about human law wanting or not to spread the teaching, The teaching has already been spread to most every country in the world, so it is up to others to pick it up and start learning, It is free to learn it, and nobody can force it upon others or forcefully take it away from them.

I was not interested in following the path, and you are unable to force me to do anything. I was only asking what you believe and why you believe it is true. But if you do not wish to share that, I understand.
 

night912

Well-Known Member
To help someone is the best we can do, But not by saying negative comments about them or their path. To correct someone with a question like for example. In the teaching, it say "quote the teaching" then ask why the person does not follow this. Do not attack the person because you disagree with him. Just ask questions.

My OP is not an attack of any spiritual/religious person or path. If ever it was an "attack" it would be toward those who try to tear down other people's beliefs. and often in forums that are unfortunately Atheists
So apparently you are doing the exact same things that you are talking about being against. Instead of attacking atheism, you chose to attack atheists.

To point out something that you said. You gave examples of people, particularly atheists, attacking religion when engaging with religious people. Then you said, and I quote, "If ever it was an "attack" it would be toward those who try to tear down other people's beliefs." So technically speaking, they're actions of attacking idealogy and not the individuals, are spiritually more justified than your actions of attacking those people instead of their ideology.

Just critiquing a part of your beliefs.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I am not talking about it in that way. Which is why I agree about criticising other beliefs that are harmful. It is more about looking inward as well to see whether you also have faults in your own religion. Because I have noticed that some people criticise other religions about something but fail to realise that their own religion has the same problem.
"Because I have noticed that some people criticise other religions about something but fail to realise that their own non*-religion has the same problem."

Right, please?

Regards
________
* addition by me in the quote to show one the flip side of the scenario.
 

night912

Well-Known Member
@Milton Platt

The only one who can teach Falun Gong is my teacher Li Hongzhi, so no I am not here to teach others about it, but I can share my understanding of the teaching.

It would be good if others were beginning to follow the same path, But it is their choice, I have no interest in forcing anyone to follow the same path I do, but if people ask nicely, of course, i will share what i know about it, and info needed to begin cultivation.

I don't care about human law wanting or not to spread the teaching, The teaching has already been spread to most every country in the world, so it is up to others to pick it up and start learning, It is free to learn it, and nobody can force it upon others or forcefully take it away from them.
Is it true that part of its teachings believe that aliens are one of the problems that humans are currently facing? That the influence of aliens are effecting how humans are living their lives, or is that a misunderstanding on the part of the researchers not being part of it but who studied the movement?
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
"Because I have noticed that some people criticise other religions about something but fail to realise that their own non*-religion has the same problem."

Right, please?

Regards
________
* addition by me in the quote to show one the flip side of the scenario.

Yes. It isn't limited to religion.

By the way, i myself have switched from religious to non religious because of self criticism. I used to be very religious when I first joined RF. Even then it is a continuous work in progress.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
"Because I have noticed that some people criticise other religions about something but fail to realise that their own non*-religion has the same problem."

Right, please?

Regards
________
* addition by me in the quote to show one the flip side of the scenario.
Sorry, my non-religion friends won't like my comments. I have been waiting for last many years that they may give me even one positive reasonable argument for non-existence of G-d to evidence their Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism, but nobody has ever given me one except for deriding, ridiculing the religions or their tactics of shifting the burden of proof, else they see a tea-pot flying in the void or they see an elephant/big-foot or the like in their garage. If I am wrong, the friend may please give us one. Right, please?
There is no intention to injure anybody's feelings. Peace and love

Regards
 

Jedster

Flying through space
Sorry, my non-religion friends won't like my comments. I have been waiting for last many years that they may give me even one positive reasonable argument for non-existence of G-d to evidence their Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism, but nobody has ever given me one except for deriding, ridiculing the religions or their tactics of shifting the burden of proof, else they see a tea-pot flying in the void or they see an elephant/big-foot or the like in their garage. If I am wrong, the friend may please give us one. Right, please?
There is no intention to injure anybody's feelings. Peace and love

Regards

Well the burden of proof is upon you(being the claimant of the existence of said God).
So, here is my advice:

Firstly you need to understand that not everyone has a concept of 'God'.
So your first step is to give them your concept, and then
all you have to do is prove that your God exists by giving undeniable evidence from your own experience that non-believers can also experience.
Quoting books or other people(dead or alive) won't work on most people, but you may get one or two hits.

Simple. Isn't it.
 

uloMartin

Member
I think we all could be better at cheering and inspire those who are on a spiritual path, instead of trying to debunk them or telling them how wrong they are. When someone finds a path/teaching that truly reach deep into their soul, and they do their best to become better, some of the worst experience for them then is when others trying to tell them, you are wrong, or your belief is false, your religion is evil and so on. Maybe you think that of other's beliefs or religion, but why do your "negativity toward their belief" have to be told so to derail their path? How about if you do not believe, ask good questions to those who do believe, like. What does your religion do to your daily life, how do you understand this "topic" or just tell them it is good they found a path that can lead them to become even better as human beings.

My belief or understanding of the spiritual teaching I cultivate is for me to understand, so to make it possible for me to gain inner wisdom, for those who do not follow the same spiritual teaching it should not matter what I do in the cultivation, except for if you are interested in learning the same teaching too. then it is good to ask a question for learning, but no need to ask questions for tearing down something you have not yet understood why is told the way it is told.

Asking questions is good, as long the intention is good.
Asking questions for tearing someone down, is just an act of evil.

Their are those who bash, and those to accept; Others Might feel a sense of not wanting, and theirfore come with harassments and the put of people down syndrome; Just another way to cope with life. While many do not see the incentive of their ways, Those who understand will do all they can to obtain; The Vast majority Does not understand that kindness pay's itself off. So they are amongst the numbers of the Procedure that remains them in their hell. Fire burns and so do they When time Comes of it's Norm. The Alternative would be them who understand to understand, but even to them it does burn.

So You ought to Convey a thicker Skin. So to be able to maintain. This is just an alternative seen that the way of the world and the way of spirit is far contrast to it's way. The Alternative that is spoken of is simply to realize that they can not do different until they are given tool's to obtain their ways against the viles of their devils that interminably Cause them to fall for the same o tricks of the devil. To see them burn regardless of their way's.

The Cold to them is simply The necessity of their way's seen they are already in their hell; that speaks of them to be cold at heart. But with heart said, they have one; simply that of the stone and cold various (of theirn way). The Aknowledgement is theirfore the consent of the way's of the Shaitanic form, That they are in the world, and theirby Found and yet lost. Their way simplify the consumption of hatred, the Ways; the Fuels and Burns in their hell.

Some Demonic Entities Can't but help it; Having to Submit to their masters that teach and taught them thus suchwise, in alternation to the cause. Mankind does not know how to be subtle and Kind. But aknowledges the way's of the Devils. Because they seek to be devil's they conform to the devils. To them it has it's purgs. But in the Reality of Humankind;

They are Far worse then the consumption of all Demonic entities that face the riddle "What is life all About", Kindness Lead's, Even tho the world is in black and white in shades; It does aknowlegde that the Higher things of Life are better, and it in it is kindness found as a virtue to the knowledge of the aknowledgement of Life.These Virtues are ever evolving, tho the core remains the same. To find sympathy for them who are that way, in the lower regions to life; is a Buddhaistic nature.

Even Christ Cried for them who were Lost, as such to gather them together; The Founding understanding of the Gather is to say; In the Parable of the Lost sheep; he would leave the 100's to find this one missing one. The World is that missing one, and tho all are lost in their various of their own personal way's; the world consents to it's own and the own consent to their worlds. What then is theirfore your world.

To me the Conclusion is neither light nor darkness in their way's, But a simple Grasp of human ignorance. Lost in the Found of them who seek Their Approval, the world Leave and Work's it's own Miracles of their way's; But whereas their are border's, These Can be bridged, seen that All is but a Segregation of the World; the Worlds itself are all Confined into One. Love. This Virtue will Never Outdate itself; Tho the World does not Akowledge the Sorts Pending on it; The Abstract of it's Notion is visible and Attuned to the Conform of the Way's of Life.

This Theirfore is a Battle to the Cold of Heart's and them who Have Hearts of Stones. The Valor to them Who See Past beyond it is to Set Virtue into their Mind's and Simply Outrun the Viles of their Demonic; Devils and their way's. This Can be done easily; But though at times to some; Because they Obstruct not; But give Full Concensive to Way's of Dark, and in it they Find the Liberty to do All They Please, in Regards Without any Consequence or Reliability till they are Face With their Kind; the Various of the Condemnation that is hid from the Face of them Who Seek the Way of Luciferian or Shaitanic in Their way's. Either way,

To Me it is a Little or of Little to the Cause of Thing's, Seen that all Entities Have Right to Live in the Human Consent of Form; But in the Alternative, i see that they are Wanting, in Way's that the World and the Universe is Seeking them to be Left and Yet Found. The Various of Way's Wherein they are Caught is to Aknowledge them to the Light that shine's Brighter then Any Star and Give them the Full Pendance; Inpendance of what Life is Really All About. To Whatever Sense, they Appraise nothing more then Unvirtue and Disaknowledgement of the Way's that Spirit of Above, the Very Consent to Life Deems they to Aknowlegde Them theirin; But where as they are Cold or Of Stone; they are Good to their Neighbors whom they Approve of, so they Are not Completely Dead. But simple Asleep. And With that Sleep Comes Dreams and Nightmares in Which they Approve to Play out to the Way of the World in the Regard of Righteousness.

Uncontain they Aknowledge the way's of Dark; But in Reality Wish to be Freed From it, as any Norm of Human Consent wishes to be Freed From Any Hostile hostility or Entity that Confines them in the Way Regarded Against the Life they Wish to Profess to Live. This theirfore is their Prison, and Theifore their Liberity. Whether their Form will See the Burn of the Fire in the End of the Day, is Questionable, seen that Hell is a Human Means of Aknowledgement; But the Fuels of them Who Walk in Their way will Surely Walk in it In the Hereafter, seen that the Human Way of Spirit is to them Who Sent out, will be confine or Conformed to the Act of their Actions in the Destitute of Time.

The Reality they Face is the Reality Which they are Perceived theirin and Theirfore Come to the Conclusion theirof in the Reality of it's Phase when entering Past the Knowledge of the Death Which they Must Face. Some Call it Remorse Others Call it Duty; Karma. Whereas Life holds But one Karma of Mind; the Retribution. Most Will Not Face That Which is Proper to them, Seen they; That What they Have Sent Our will Return to them In Doublefold Ten Times. as the Notion Goes; you are What You eat and You Receive What You seek. The Total Conform to their Way's is that they Must be Wanting; So they Seek it By Unaffilated Conform to the Wicked in Mind. This Reality is the Face they are Facing, and Tho the World Does Spin Around; it does not tell them How to Spin Around the Sun; All Must Learn it themselves, so By Whatever Act You are Doing, To that Act You are Known.

May God theirfore be Merciful to Us, as we all Seek the Way of Liberation to them Who Understand. So i Say; Don't be to Harsh to them, But simply try to understand, that they themselves are not given an incentive to walk in the way's of God; But in the Dominion that is of the Dark and Lower Nature of Men.

To the Context of "No need for someone to try to derail Other's...."

The appropriation is already their; We Just need to Learn how to Approve of it. So that One Day; the Day of Liberation is given Out to this; THEIR.

 
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