No one should believe in evolution!

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I blame Creationists who have tried to weaken evolution and put it into a position of a belief, such as how they came up the silly and absurd term "evolutionist."

FYI: Stephen Jay Gould often used the word “evolutionist” in his essays. He used it in the sense of “a scientist who studies evolution.”

 

[Apologes]

This is not a normal understanding of the word “believe.” It’s much more common to use the word to just mean “accept as true.”

Pretty much. People tend to equote belief in general with a very particular sort called blind faith. There is nothing wrong with former (it's inevitable really) but the latter is where issues arise.

For instance, one common definition of “knowledge” is “justified true belief.”

That understanding of knowledge has been proven wrong way back in 1963. Something else is needed to make for knowledge.

 

[Jumi]

FYI: Stephen Jay Gould often used the word “evolutionist” in his essays. He used it in the sense of “a scientist who studies evolution.”

His usage is too different from how these so-called creationists use it. They use the word to convince themselves that evolution is merely another competing religion and anyone who thinks it's true is an evolutionist.

 

[Skwim]

His usage is too different from how these so-called creationists use it. They use the word to convince themselves that evolution is merely another competing religion and anyone who thinks it's true is an evolutionist.

Well, they can do what they want with it, but those of us who accept evolution and are familiar with both sides of the issue don't give creationists much, if any, respect for their ideas anyway, so it really doesn't matter.



.

 

[ChristineM]

I am of the firm opinion that no one should ever believe in evolution. Belief is based of placing faith in something. Evolution is a scientific theory. No should ever accept a scientific theory by faith. One can believe in many things properly, such as the innate value of people, or that your favorite sports team is the greatest. But scientific theories aren’t like those. Scientific theories can be accepted as correct, or assented to, or tested and verified, or a host of other empirical and scientific actions. But to believe in a scientific theory is an oxymoron.

Whenever I encounter someone that says they believe in evolution I roll my eyes metaphorically and think to myself that here is someone that lacks a genuine understanding of evolution and science.

I will now don my asbestos suit and await comments.

Scientific theory : A well substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.
Such fact supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world.

Hope that helps

 

[YmirGF]

Having looked at the evidence over the years, I believe things can change given time, so while I don't believe in the Darwinian mechanics of evolution, I believe things can change given time. For example, we can breed a species of cat that has a fair chance of having green eyes. This, of course, proves that things can change given time.

Well, okie dokie, then.

 

[ecco]

I am of the firm opinion that no one should ever believe in evolution.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Belief is based of placing faith in something.

OK

Evolution is a scientific theory.

Right again

No should ever accept a scientific theory by faith.

That depends on the basis of the faith and on the definition of faith used.

faith
fāTH/
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction; More
​

I would quibble with the word "complete". However, I have trust and confidence and even conviction that thousands of scientists know what they are doing. Thousands of scientists, from many different branches of science all conclude that ToE is valid.

...Scientific theories can be accepted as correct, or assented to, or tested and verified, or a host of other empirical and scientific actions.

Scientific theories are not accepted as correct until they are tested and verified.

But to believe in a scientific theory is an oxymoron.

Please explain

Whenever I encounter someone that says they believe in evolution I roll my eyes metaphorically and think to myself that here is someone that lacks a genuine understanding of evolution and science.

The only reason to disbelieve ToE is that it contradicts other theories for the existence of humans. Since you disbelieve ToE, could you share what your competing theory is based on.

 

[ecco]

If people who accept the theory of evolution are "evolutionists" or "darwinists", then people who accept the theory of gravity are "gravitationists" or "newtonists".

Or Einsteinists.

 

[Father Heathen]

Or Einsteinists.

Or scientistists.

 

[ecco]

Therefore, it can actually be of some value to head off such mischief by using the term "accept" in lieu of "belief".

Belief and Faith are perfectly good words when it comes to science or anything else.

The OP, like many creationists, intentionally ignore dictionary definitions just as they ignore everything that does not further their silly agendas.

 

[Rival]

The OP, like many creationists, intentionally ignore dictionary definitions just as they ignore everything that does not further their silly agendas.

I think you and Skwim completely misread the OP.

He's saying 'You shouldn't believe in evolution'.

Because believe implies a choice, and to most people, evolution is a fact, not something you can choose to believe.

'You shouldn't believe in evolution, you should know,' is the message implied.

You need to be more perceptive.

 

[ecco]

You mean, scientists never believed these were accurate?:

Superseded scientific theories - Wikipedia

Many of those "Superseded scientific theories" were never scientific theories in the modern sense of the word:

• Maternal impression – the theory that the mother's thoughts created birth defects. No experimental support (a notion rather than a theory), and rendered obsolete by genetic theory (see also fetal origins of adult disease, genomic imprinting)
• Miasma theory of disease – the theory that diseases are caused by "bad air". No experimental support, and rendered obsolete by the germ theory of disease.
• Preformationism – the theory that all organisms have existed since the beginning of life, and that gametes contain a miniature but complete preformed individual, in the case of humans, a homunculus. No support when microscopy became available. Rendered obsolete by cytology, discovery of DNA, and atomic theory.
• Telegony – the theory that an offspring can inherit characteristics from a previous mate of its mother's as well as its actual parents, often associated with racism.
• Vitalism – the theory that living things are alive because of some "vital force"

 

[ecco]

I think you and Skwim completely misread the OP.

He's saying 'You shouldn't believe in evolution'.

Because believe implies a choice, and to most people, evolution is a fact, not something you can choose to believe.

'You shouldn't believe in evolution, you should know,' is the message implied.

You need to be more perceptive.

Are you serious?

 

[Rival]

Are you serious?

Well, yeah? Because that's what he's saying. He might compare it to someone saying 'I believe in the moon'. No-one 'believes in' the moon, as if it's a point of controversy.

 

[shunyadragon]

I am of the firm opinion that no one should ever believe in evolution. Belief is based of placing faith in something. Evolution is a scientific theory. No should ever accept a scientific theory by faith. One can believe in many things properly, such as the innate value of people, or that your favorite sports team is the greatest. But scientific theories aren’t like those. Scientific theories can be accepted as correct, or assented to, or tested and verified, or a host of other empirical and scientific actions. But to believe in a scientific theory is an oxymoron.

Whenever I encounter someone that says they believe in evolution I roll my eyes metaphorically and think to myself that here is someone that lacks a genuine understanding of evolution and science.

I will now don my asbestos suit and await comments.

Assertion based on mythology.

Is this a joke thread?!?!?!

. . . or number 10,987 creationist nonsense thread.

 

[Jumi]

Well, yeah? Because that's what he's saying. He might compare it to someone saying 'I believe in the moon'. No-one 'believes in' the moon, as if it's a point of controversy.

Thank you for pointing it out that there is such a way to read the OP. But then I will have to disagree with it also, people believe the moon is there or that it exists. It's just rare to have people who don't believe it does....

 

[Jumi]

Well, they can do what they want with it, but those of us who accept evolution and are familiar with both sides of the issue don't give creationists much, if any, respect for their ideas anyway, so it really doesn't matter..

Well if it's a debate, I don't feel wrong in pointing out that I believe it's dishonest. Of course they are a small, but rich group who promote these ideas.

 

[Rival]

Thank you for pointing it out that there is such a way to read the OP. But then I will have to disagree with it also, people believe the moon is there or that it exists. It's just rare to have people who don't believe it does....

Look what he said:

Yes! You don’t believe in it, you accept the validity of it. Thank you.

People just totally missed the thrust of the OP.

 

[Jesster]

Look what he said:



People just totally missed the thrust of the OP.

Plenty of people got the idea. The OP is just using a nonstandard form of "belief". When people say they believe in a scientific theory, that's not what they mean. It's a strawman.

 

[Rival]

Plenty of people got the idea. The OP is just using a nonstandard form of "belief". When people say they believe in a scientific theory, that's not what they mean. It's a strawman.

I'm not bothered about whether the argument works, I'm pointing out to Jumi, Skwim and others who managed to completely miss the point.