No one should believe in evolution!

[metis]

One does not believe in evolution any more than one believes in the moon-- either one accepts the reality of it or they don't. We well know that life forms evolve and that newer species can and sometimes do emerge (google "speciation" for examples), and this has been well known for well over a century now.

What I find bizarre is how some can believe in a god or gods they cannot see and yet not accept that which we can see with life forms changing, whether that be through the fossil record or through genome testing? And it even stands to common sense: all material items appear to change over time and genes are material items.

IMO, religion can be used as a source of enlightenment or as a set of blinders, so when one uses a particular interpretation of their scriptures that defies even basic science and basic logic, they've chosen the latter.

 

[Jumi]

Look what he said:

It's not always easy to follow how people use the word belief in English. Of course people believe evolution theory is true and believe the scientific theory if they accept it. So do we believe the moon still exists and is there in space next to our blue planet. What is false is if it's used in a religious sense of it being something like belief in a scripture.

 

[ecco]

But to believe in a scientific theory is an oxymoron.

One does not believe in evolution any more than one believes in the moon

I believe...

be·lieve
bəˈlēv/
verb
1.
accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.​

...in evolution because I have faith...

faith​

fāTH/
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.​

... that the scientists who have studied the issues know what they are doing.




Is the universe infinite?
Are there multiple universes?

People can believe in either answer to either question based on the faith they have in the scientists who have researched these things.

No unrelated moon analogy, no oxymoron.


It's usually Creationists and Religious Conservatives who try to apply only the other definitions of faith and belief to people who accept science.

 

[exchemist]

I believe...

be·lieve
bəˈlēv/
verb
1.
accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.​

...in evolution because I have faith...

faith​

fāTH/
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.​

... that the scientists who have studied the issues know what they are doing.




Is the universe infinite?
Are there multiple universes?

People can believe in either answer to either question based on the faith they have in the scientists who have researched these things.

No unrelated moon analogy, no oxymoron.


It's usually Creationists and Religious Conservatives who try to apply only the other definitions of faith and belief to people who accept science.

I agree with this.

As we are constantly pointing out to people on this forum, scientific theories can never be proved true, because they can in principle always be shown inadeqate if new observations are made that do not fit them. Nonetheless, most of them have been shown reliable enough to be trusted, at least until such time as new research shows up their inadequacies.

What do we call this trust we place in something that cannot be proved? Belief seems as good a word as any. You could even call it faith. I would not be ashamed to say I have faith in Newton's laws of motion, for example, or Bernouilli''s principle, even to the extent of getting into an aeroplane whose operation relies on such things!

The point of difference with religious belief, surely, is that the belief or trust we have for scientific theories is due the observational evidence we have that they work.

Religious belief or faith derives from different things: subjective experience of spiritual feelings, aesthetic or moral sense, the need for tribal belonging etc. None of these is observational evidence in the scientific sense.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Plenty of people got the idea. The OP is just using a nonstandard form of "belief". When people say they believe in a scientific theory, that's not what they mean. It's a strawman.

I think your point has merit. I think though that he's actually trying to make that distinction obvious so as to have dialogue about that very thing. I second guess that and could be wrong.

I will now don my asbestos suit and await comments.

I think its been an enjoyable thread with some interesting discussion, but I think you should also wear a tomato proof suit over the asbestos one.

 

[Jesster]

I think your point has merit. I think though that he's actually trying to make that distinction obvious so as to have dialogue about that very thing. I second guess that and could be wrong.

If that's the case, he's failing at making the distinction obvious. I'm a fan of responding directly to what people say instead of what they could be coming around to a month from now.

 

[metis]

I draw at least some distinction between "belief" and "know", and we well know that there has been and still is an evolution of life forms. Also, the word "theory" has a different meaning in science than it does with the lay.

So, how do we know life evolves? Because it has been observed in many different ways. If one googles "speciation", there are examples.

 

[David T]

I am of the firm opinion that no one should ever believe in evolution. Belief is based of placing faith in something. Evolution is a scientific theory. No should ever accept a scientific theory by faith. One can believe in many things properly, such as the innate value of people, or that your favorite sports team is the greatest. But scientific theories aren’t like those. Scientific theories can be accepted as correct, or assented to, or tested and verified, or a host of other empirical and scientific actions. But to believe in a scientific theory is an oxymoron.

Whenever I encounter someone that says they believe in evolution I roll my eyes metaphorically and think to myself that here is someone that lacks a genuine understanding of evolution and science.

I will now don my asbestos suit and await comments.

Life's interconnected no science actually needed. A dogs an evolutionist.

 

[Thaif]

Gravity is a scientific theory. By your assertion, I shouldn't believe in that either.

Aww, that's not really the same, gravity is an attraction between two bodies of mass and is easily proven. I can drop an elephant to the ground from 10 metres and it's gunna go splat. If I get an elephant into a room with a mouse, I'm not going to get a elemouse any time soon.

 

[Jesster]

Aww, that's not really the same, gravity is an attraction between two bodies of mass and is easily proven. I can drop an elephant to the ground from 10 metres and it's gunna go splat. If I get an elephant into a room with a mouse, I'm not going to get a elemouse any time soon.

Nice straw man. That's not how evolution works.

 

[ecco]

...mis-post

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think you and Skwim completely misread the OP.

He's saying 'You shouldn't believe in evolution'.

Because believe implies a choice, and to most people, evolution is a fact, not something you can choose to believe.

How do you figure? Since when does belief imply choice?

 

[Rival]

How do you figure? Since when does belief imply choice?

I'm contrasting it with 'knowing'.

I.e.,

'I believe I saw a grey cat' vs. 'I know a saw a grey cat'.

One is uncertain, but the person has made the choice to believe he saw a grey cat, without being fully sure. He could have gone the other way and decided he never saw a grey cat, but, say, a black one or no cat.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm contrasting it with 'knowing'.

I.e.,

'I believe I saw a grey cat' vs. 'I know a saw a grey cat'.

One is uncertain, but the person has made the choice to believe he saw a grey cat, without being fully sure. He could have gone the other way and decided he never saw a grey cat, but, say, a black one or no cat.

I don’t think you really answered my question; you just restated the claim.

Even when we’re uncertain, we don’t choose our beliefs. When we’re convinced that something is true, we can’t help but believe it.

 

[Rival]

I don’t think you really answered my question; you just restated the claim.

Even when we’re uncertain, we don’t choose our beliefs. When we’re convinced that something is true, we can’t help but believe it.

Perhaps 'choose' is the wrong choice, but if we are uncertain and someone asks us to make a statement, say in a police interview and they want a concrete statement 'Did you did you not see a man in a hat?' and you are unsure, you have to make a sort of choice and say you did or didn't. Of course there are going to be reasons leading you to one conclusion or another, but different people will be swayed by different things.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Perhaps 'choose' is the wrong choice, but if we are uncertain and someone asks us to make a statement, say in a police interview and they want a concrete statement 'Did you did you not see a man in a hat?' and you are unsure, you have to make a sort of choice and say you did or didn't.

Or you could say “I’m not sure, but here’s what I did see.”

... though adding this other weird layer of testimony to the police is really distracting from what we’re talking about.

Of course there are going to be reasons leading you to one conclusion or another, but different people will be swayed by different things.

But none of those people will stop and make a conscious choice to believe the conclusion they reached. Beliefs are recognized, not chosen.

 

[janesix]

I am of the firm opinion that no one should ever believe in evolution. Belief is based of placing faith in something. Evolution is a scientific theory. No should ever accept a scientific theory by faith. One can believe in many things properly, such as the innate value of people, or that your favorite sports team is the greatest. But scientific theories aren’t like those. Scientific theories can be accepted as correct, or assented to, or tested and verified, or a host of other empirical and scientific actions. But to believe in a scientific theory is an oxymoron.

Whenever I encounter someone that says they believe in evolution I roll my eyes metaphorically and think to myself that here is someone that lacks a genuine understanding of evolution and science.

I will now don my asbestos suit and await comments.

My belief in evolution is a religious belief. But I think for most, it is not.

 

[Baroodi]

I am of the firm opinion that no one should ever believe in evolution. Belief is based of placing faith in something. Evolution is a scientific theory. No should ever accept a scientific theory by faith. One can believe in many things properly, such as the innate value of people, or that your favorite sports team is the greatest. But scientific theories aren’t like those. Scientific theories can be accepted as correct, or assented to, or tested and verified, or a host of other empirical and scientific actions. But to believe in a scientific theory is an oxymoron.

Whenever I encounter someone that says they believe in evolution I roll my eyes metaphorically and think to myself that here is someone that lacks a genuine understanding of evolution and science.

I will now don my asbestos suit and await comments.

You are write

I learned this from just watching people replacing their hips or knees in the hospital where I work. They suffer a lot of problems after surgery let a lone possible complications from iunyielding infections.
they will be crippled with limited range of movement and they are not even near to normal. If evolution is true why it cannot normalize every thing for these poor people?

 

[ChristineM]

Is the universe infinite?

Potentially, the universe is measured to be flat to 5 decimal places, a flat universe is reckoned to be infinite. Of course the accuracy of the measurement may begin to skew at 6 or 999... decimal places, who knows? And the universe has a finite age thus showing it cannot be infinite. Perhaps this means it is not infinite but can potentially inflate to infinity, . again, who knows?.

Are there multiple universes?

Possibly, of the 27 hypothesis i know on how this universe formed about 30% of them consider a multiverse and this universe came* from them

* there are several scenarios explaining how our universe "broke off"/"spawned' from another universe.

Now my head hurts

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are write

I learned this from just watching people replacing their hips or knees in the hospital where I work. They suffer a lot of problems after surgery let a lone possible complications from iunyielding infections.
they will be crippled with limited range of movement and they are not even near to normal. If evolution is true why it cannot normalize every thing for these poor people?

Why do you think that evolution would correct such defects? Your appear not to understand the concept.