No overwhelming historical proof: Why I doubt Jesus

[Sapiens]

Christ and Bible can only ever be truly appreciated by the spiritually minded. The atheist and materialist are deprived of knowing their true value because they see with material eyes only.

RIght, we don't have the requisite secret decoder rings so we can not climb into the tree house..

 

[g2perk]

No I automatically place both, without prejudice, as myth.

Nonsense

 

[Twilight Hue]

Just a second....
Josephus was the retired commander of all Galilean forces!
He probably had met soldiers and others who personally knew Jesus.

I didn't know that part. I thought he was a Jewish historian.

 

[columbus]

Nonsense

Not if one is more interested in truth than self aggrandizing and implausible fiction.
Tom

 

[columbus]

I didn't know that part. I thought he was a Jewish historian.

He was both.
His position gave his historical work literary weight.
Tom

 

[Sapiens]

Which part is fictional? I am absolutely confident that everything I described can be found in the NT.

What "average" character? Just the parts I mentioned make Him quite beyond ordinary. Adding in all the less plausible parts just makes my OP even more pointed. How could such astonishing events go so unnoticed by the people of the day?

The combination of portents, solar eclipse and earthquake on the eve of Passover, would itself be momentous. We know to within a few years when it had to be. The Gospel authors had to have as well. But not only do they give no date, but no such event is recorded by anybody at all.
Tom

What part is fictional? Why all of it of course. Just another historical novel, a fictional tale woven through actual locations featuring, on occasion, real people and real locations ... just like Tom Clancy.

 

[Sapiens]

Nonsense

Sense.

 

[loverofhumanity]

RIght, we don't have the requisite secret decoder rings so we can not climb into the tree house..

It's not like that. All one needs to do is contemplate and ponder on the Words of God with an open and unbiased mind.

With a humble posture of learning we can understand many things.

It's like the mountain and the river.

The mountain stands tall and proud and the river sits lowly but the water all flows into the river.

Truth is like that. If we are proud it truth deserts us because if we are full of ourselves there is no room for learning,. We have to empty our prejudices and biases and approach with an open and unbiased mind to learn.

Scientists question but there a point where they accept truth. If they always said 'no that can't be true ' we would still be riding on donkeys.

If we think we are right and everybody is wrong then we can't learn anymore. We become closed to all truth.

 

[columbus]

It's not like that. All one needs to do is contemplate and ponder on the Words of God with an open and unbiased mind.

I have. Lots of them for years.
I have come to the realization that the fundamental source of religion is people who want to feel like they are superior to most other people.
Like you do.
You think you are better than me because you understand God and ancient scripture better than I do.
But you can't give me any reason to believe this except your own sense of superiority.
Tom

 

[Sapiens]

It's not like that. All one needs to do is contemplate and ponder on the Words of God with an open and unbiased mind.

Don't forget to ask your belly button about the whichness of why.

With a humble posture of learning we can understand many things.

Christian humility is a pose, it is really hubris (man created in god's image) disguised.

It's like the mountain and the river.

The mountain stands tall and proud and the river sits lowly but the water all flows into the river.

Truth is like that. If we are proud it truth deserts us because if we are full of ourselves there is no room for learning,. We have to empty our prejudices and biases and approach with an open and unbiased mind to learn.

A failed analogy.

Scientists question but there a point where they accept truth. If they always said 'no that can't be true ' we would still be riding on donkeys.

Stick to you own discipline because you clearly have no idea of how science works.

If we think we are right and everybody is wrong then we can't learn anymore. We become closed to all truth.

That is the religionist approach. Science does not work that way.

 

[Brian Schuh]

I have doubts that I have a great great great great great great grandfather. I mean, I have no historical proof.

Of course there was some poor rabbi who was crucified called Yeshua. All I am saying is that there were probably a half a dozen men named Yeshua over the course of over a century. And that a myth grew up around them, and over time they were all conglomerated into one man, the mythological Jesus.

The gospels were written much later than the events they describe, but several of St. Paul's letters were written very early.

I don't give a damn. I care more if there is actually a real person behind that fake character on TV they call Bill Clinton.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well the description your talking about isn't the most important part of His ministry. His teaching was the importance of His existence. The whole bible including the OT is all pointing to Jesus. The proof is how can all these men from diff times say the same thing in unison about one man. That's the miracle.

This doesn't prove he is a man. Everything he teaches comes from the Pentateuch and the Psalms. The only people who don't already have his teachings are the gentiles, and the OT to which you refer points to a servant called Israel and a son called Israel. This should lead you to the opposite conclusion from concluding a man Jesus, a personal lord and savior so much like Krishna that its getting to be a little embarrassing.

 

[g2perk]

This doesn't prove he is a man. Everything he teaches comes from the Pentateuch and the Psalms. The only people who don't already have his teachings are the gentiles, and the OT to which you refer points to a servant called Israel and a son called Israel. This should lead you to the opposite conclusion from concluding a man Jesus, a personal lord and savior so much like Krishna that its getting to be a little embarrassing.

Teachings of Jesus is through out the bible. Every book.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Teachings of Jesus is through out the bible. Every book.

*shrugs* Thin ice. Thinnest ice ever.

 

[g2perk]

*shrugs* Thin ice. Thinnest ice ever.

No very thick ice...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The whole bible including the OT is all pointing to Jesus.

Nonsense.

 

[g2perk]

Nonsense.

From Genesis to Rev. In the OT it is about the coming of Jesus and the NT is about the cross.

 

[Brian Schuh]

From Genesis to Rev. In the OT it is about the coming of Jesus and the NT is about the cross.

Nonsense.

 

[g2perk]

Nonsense.

Sense

 

[JustWondering]

It's not like that. All one needs to do is contemplate and ponder on the Words of God with an open and unbiased mind.

I did that, read the bible cover to cover, prayed for guidance, and I WANTED to believe. Yet, I became an atheist. I'm incapable of purposely being intellectually dishonest. To believe in something like Christianity you literally have to shut down your rational mind. People who want you to shut down your rational mind want you to so they can more easily manipulate and exploit you. No thanks.